I may be missing the point, but what, from the last 20 or so posts, has any of this to do with remembering & honouring our dead?
The Murder rate here has nothing to do with the morality of south africa. It has everything to do with the morality of a few thousand or million people. You've missed the point. The difference between Sudan and India is the laws in place in India. South Africa, like Germany actually has laws in place that make it a crime to murder and rape and steal. The problem here is that the political and legal system is failing. Edit: And this is going off topic but anyway
I forgot to put a sarcasm icon at the end of that.. lol Amazing how forums can be taken so far out of context.. makes me giggle a lot! just for those who are not aware of the sarcasm phenomena here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm as per some of the other comments, it did take over 300 years of ruling for the greater effects of any invading force to have any form of impact.. personally i say get the troops out of there, just control the oil (lol ) and leave it all to decend back to where it was before.. deny any requests for aid etc and let it all get sorted as im sure it will all be fine.. no more lives to be lost etc, will all be fine and dandy
I am a firm believer in the chaos theory.. its the only thing that is true and good and not subject to morals, religion or anything else.. put yourself in the hands of the chaos theory and it will be all fine... the way i look at life is that we assert outselves on this plannet, but the reality is that we are a parasitic being... we all feed off this plannet... which in the end bounces around the solar system.. we all have very little control over out lives and will threaten anyone who will shake the glass bauble of belief that we are not in control.. in the end this whole argument, the war itself, the lives lost, the religous gain and loss... the media coverage.. will one day be pissing off some 14 year old in the year 2900 and they will be bored shitless.. what i mean by this is its as retarded as talking about roman times, its been gone and done.. and it will happen again and again... we will always fight.. its in our nature as parasites to control comodities.. but thats where the beauty of chaos theroy comes in... one big astaroid later and we will all realise how pathetic our grasp of this world and the universe will be! oh... and normally by now the nazis statisticaly are drawn into an argument like this (only a light reference was made to hitler i think) i remember a long time ago that in some form a reference to nazis and WW2 exploits will somehow always make it into an argument.. maybe this is yet further proof to the chaos theory! also on a final note.. why is it that humanity does not come up with a universal charter of right and wrong.. such a thing with no reference etc to religion just humans treating humans.. Inflicting pain and suffering and death to be wrong (regardless of religious believe) Inflicting the development of the human mind (through banning of teaching and resources) things like this, that would be universal and give a balance, something that religions could adopt on all sides to limit the frictions that exist between them.. after all, the books were written and devoutly followed... all on the say so of a man who heard voices!
Chaos Theory is more about random events that are portrayed as 'not entirely random'. Umm, The Hitler thing can still propose a massive issue, the reason that we don't get ragged off about Romans, Vikings (woo) or anything else is simply because 'Time heals everything'. I don't get angry with Germans who's grand-fathers may have killed family of mine! Hell there was a documentry about A US POW who met up with a Japanese Soldier and went to a mass-grave and both of them wept openly about the occurances, probably about different things but that isn't the point. Religion would never adopt something like that? Religion tells you that if you are good, you'll go to heaven and if you are bad you'll be kept company by twelve thousand Micheal Jackson clones for all eternity until you can moonwalk better than Satan. The Voices, that depends... not all of them go based on a fact of "God spoke to his son" but most of the time, as you say, promenant voices are heard by the so called 'Messiah', Religion is just humanities way of offering a cushion for death. It causes so much death simply by being active but humanity in no way cannot exist without faith. This I believe so much so that I have my own (Which is basically a grand scheme of a Space Marines faith, but get rid of The Emperor and replace it with yourself... strange, but makes sense in my head). I've often ranted about annihlating religion, but that itself is a belief... and belief spawns... rel... bleurgh! Universal Charter? Just not possible mate, I guarantee my best friend who I've known for 20/21 years of my life, I'm 22... has morals so very different to mine. A universal morality board would be impossible, because morality is based to heavily on opinion it's unreal. Thus why I didn't break out the chainaxe and Space Marine suit and go kill the nutters who burnt poppies. Because I just didn't care for part-time terrorists, if you get me?
I now have visions of this.... a giant space marine walking through london... the fear and confusion in everyones eyes.. lol I think in the end humanity itself is just doomed to fail.. sadly as until we evolve to another state of unity we will just keep killing.. and fighting... and fighting over other peoples actions on forums the sad thing is that their protests have had the effect they wanted... time, energy etc on all our parts has been devoted into discussing their message, further widening the divide and creating a long term crack in our culture and ways of life. In defending their actions it looks like rifts have been caused and people have been offended... the one thing i know is that a lot of people here seem to be in their early 20's and im in my latter 20's (29 to be precise) and i know the way i feel now is so different to even that of my 25th year. Everything is so black and white and now just shades of grey. and for a lot in their early 20's loss of loved ones is thankfully rare but not so as it goes forth.. this starts to change perceptions. so i can understand the militantly defended views, but be prepared to look back and cringe a little, i know i have when i look back at some of the things i did hold dear.
i had, but rather than humanity its the UN... and its only adhered to as and when required.. and not agreed upon by everyone and adopted... so many violations of the human rights still exist and its sad
Pretty much my views there mate. It's crazy isn't it? The only thing that would unify humanity though is an alien invasion, or the third world war once the first atomic goes off and we realise what we are doing. As for the Space Marine... Remind me to forward you pictures of next Halloween in Leicester... Space Marines and The Emperor would just make life easy. But amusingly you can see humanity in Warhammer exactly how we are. The Emperor unifies humanity and bans religion on pain of death. Emperor gets near killed and becomes immobile on Golden Throne, people start worshipping him as a god. Humanity always needs faith to believe in.
I have to take exception to this. It's impossible for a non-Muslim Brit to every understand that Islam is the norm in Muslim countries? Blimey, you don't give us much credit for intelligence, do you? Oh wait, don't impose your standards on us.
I did, thanks. You may notice a couple of posts I made somewhere in the middle. Then again, maybe not.
Of course, but the key difference is that legally and socially they are deemed unacceptable. In some other countries the same bad stuff is openly endorsed and supported. If they are, they will only have themselves to blame. Paradoxically they may sort themselves out sooner without our meddling. Actually it kind of is. What they were probably both crying about is how they were both victims of the war. Side didn't matter; who started it and who won didn't matter --war screws everyone involved. Yes, really. It is how we are wired.
Was thinking more about the way in which the word 'faith' was being used. Are you talking about faith in the sense of religious faith, i.e. the belief or trust in something which has no proof? Or are you using a wider view that includes belief or trust in things which can be proven or have evidence shown for them?
Of course the murder rate reflects the morality of a society. We're talking about "on the whole" here, and on the whole South Africa is clearly a place where murder is more "ok" than Germany. South Africa may share similar laws to Germany, yet because of the "on the whole" morality of the people, it's murder rate is about 40 times higher. That is to say, South Africa has inferior/worse morals than Germany, on the whole.
