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-   -   Windows Windows 8 Marmite thread... Because you either love it or hate it (http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=226827)

TheStockBroker 28th Feb 2012 10:49

Windows 8 Marmite thread... Because you either love it or hate it
 
As per title, the Windows 8 Beta is slated to be released tomorrow for general public preview/use.

Did/Does anyone:
  • Participate in the pre-beta/dev preview?
  • Plan to give the ARM version a go?
  • Plan to install the soon-to-be-released build 8250 on their main rig?
  • Have any expectations/precognitions worth a mention?

I can't see any of my component manufacturers as having driver support listed as of yet - But was desperately hoping to migrate my main rig over this weekend, as it's well overdue for a full-format...

Are there major changes to the core OS that would prevent Win 7 drivers being used? Although, that said - given how good integrated driver support was for 7, I can't see MS backtracking for 8!

longweight 28th Feb 2012 10:56

I had the developer preview on my HTPC and it was fine, I didn't spend months using it but it seemed to work with any software I needed etc...

I will be installing on one of the spare 1Tb drives I have in my machine to give it a go :)

TheStockBroker 28th Feb 2012 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by longweight (Post 2981122)
I had the developer preview on my HTPC and it was fine, I didn't spend months using it but it seemed to work with any software I needed etc...

I will be installing on one of the spare 1Tb drives I have in my machine to give it a go :)

I have to admit, I was scared to install the dev-preview after all the non-completion statements MS made about various aspects of the OS. "Yeah, we're still working on this... and we're thinking about... we might redo..." Didn't instil enough confidence to use it as my primary OS (which is all I ever do with betas - use them as finished articles).

I've not looked at either pictures of, or comments regarding the new UI as I want to experience it myself without prejudice. I know the guys over at Redmond aren't stupid, and I'm sure it will at least be pleasantly usable...

Ah well, as long as I can still play BF3 and ME3 when it comes out, that's fine...

Incidentally, are we to expect any FPS improvements following a potential reduction in OS/Direct X overheads?

Evolutionsic 28th Feb 2012 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by longweight (Post 2981122)
I had the developer preview on my HTPC and it was fine, I didn't spend months using it but it seemed to work with any software I needed etc...

I will be installing on one of the spare 1Tb drives I have in my machine to give it a go :)

installed the dev preview on my newish system

kept crashing, and its freaking horrible... meh

wouldn't open bf3 full screen either :p

longweight 28th Feb 2012 11:20

I never tried to game on it and I never had it crash!

TheStockBroker 28th Feb 2012 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evolutionsic (Post 2981137)
installed the dev preview on my newish system

kept crashing, and its freaking horrible... meh

wouldn't open bf3 full screen either :p

Nope, not listening... must... not... form... preconceptions...

Ugh. It's no use, I was going to dive face-first and go in without a Win 7 backup - But I think that wouldn't be wise in case it's as frustrating as hell for a competent user!

Evolutionsic 28th Feb 2012 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStockBroker (Post 2981179)
Nope, not listening... must... not... form... preconceptions...

Ugh. It's no use, I was going to dive face-first and go in without a Win 7 backup - But I think that wouldn't be wise in case it's as frustrating as hell for a competent user!

better to be safe :p

GoodBytes 28th Feb 2012 13:23

I was testing the Developer Preview of Win8.
I plan to put Win8 Public Beta on my laptop.

I always put Beta OS on a dual boot configuration on my laptop, which I use as main OS.
The reason for this, is that if I need to re-install, or uninstall to put Win8 official or newer beta, and something goes wrong.. I have significantly less data, and programs to worry about,

Xye 28th Feb 2012 13:29

OK. Probably a silly question but were do you get your previews and betas from?

GoodBytes 28th Feb 2012 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xye (Post 2981256)
OK. Probably a silly question but were do you get your previews and betas from?

You will know tomorrow.
You can watch out Microsoft official Windows 8 blog here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/

Krazeh 28th Feb 2012 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStockBroker (Post 2981115)
Are there major changes to the core OS that would prevent Win 7 drivers being used? Although, that said - given how good integrated driver support was for 7, I can't see MS backtracking for 8!

I'm pretty sure i've read somewhere that Windows 8 will be able to use Windows 7 drivers without an issue but I can't remember for hte life of me where it actually was that I read it.

As for basing expectations of the Consumer Preview on the Developer Preview I wouldn't put much stock into how people fared with the Developer Preview. Not only was the Developer Preview based on a much earlier codebase but it had completely different objectives in mind. It wasn't intended for end users to install and play about with which meant that things like usability and to some extent reliability weren't massively high on the priorities.

GoodBytes 28th Feb 2012 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStockBroker (Post 2981132)
I have to admit, I was scared to install the dev-preview after all the non-completion statements MS made about various aspects of the OS. "Yeah, we're still working on this... and we're thinking about... we might redo..." Didn't instil enough confidence to use it as my primary OS (which is all I ever do with betas - use them as finished articles).

Welcome to the world of software development. It's always like that. And if it's not... then expect massive delays a-la Duke Nukem Forever. In this industry it's always "maybes", because they are A LOT of features that usually gets cut out from being realized, and spend to the next version of the product. And this is not some sort of money making tactic, nor "we have no idea for the next version of our software, let's have some stuff put aside". Like this is genuine cut. Things always take more time then expected, and that is with the usual engineer think, which is: Estimate a time, multiply it by 4 or 6.

Usually the public beta is when the product is "done", but the company wants user feedback to catch big problems (design wise), to solve them, and of course bug fixing, to provide a more robust final product. So for example, if you don't like the interface of the desktop mode Windows 8 (let's say), then they won't do any new theme or design, even if their is an outcry... but they can try and improve things, all to try and keep up with the deadline at the end of the year.


Quote:

I've not looked at either pictures of, or comments regarding the new UI as I want to experience it myself without prejudice. I know the guys over at Redmond aren't stupid, and I'm sure it will at least be pleasantly usable...
I'll tell you know, you won't like it.. (READ ON)... no mater how it could have worked or looked.

This is the same story with EVERY single new software with a new look. Windows 7 that everyone live now, was hated like no tomorrow, because of the new task bar, as an example. Reading on the design, like I do, helps you understand why they chosen this path, and make you realize first hand, why it's better, instead of jumping to hatred, because it's different as you didn't spend 2-3 month on it, to notice what was already said.

Quote:

Ah well, as long as I can still play BF3 and ME3 when it comes out, that's fine...

Incidentally, are we to expect any FPS improvements following a potential reduction in OS/Direct X overheads?
Win8 is based on Vista core (like Win7), so expect Win7 or better performance.
No core modification was done on this release. Usually Microsoft release a "New/Modified core" release of Windows, and the next one is an improvement of it, and after that, you restart the cycle. New > Improved > New > Improved. This time, it's different. It was new (Vista) > Improved (Win7) and now again > Improved (Win8).

Probably this was decided because, NT 6 (Vista) core design is still relevant today (not outdated, where it can cause, or have security issues, or block the growth of new technologies, or "how to properly do things", example, have the GPU draw the interface as you think it should have been done like that since day one, by wasn't (GPU's where really weak and very expensive at the time, so they HAD to use the CPU to do the drawings)

Also, because Microsoft energy went on making the ARM version of Win8, and the radically different Metro interface, new drive format (Server edition only, still a lot work needs to be done (example: not bootable, yet)), OS level software RAID system (expend storage system, not backup or performance), and work on re-branding a large part of Microosft products which involves more than just a simple rename, the online store, new API system for metro applications (this is HUGE. This is kind of feature that are extremely time consuming, really beneficial and cool for developer, and completely useless and non-existent in all shape and form to the end user.)

So anyway, the performance should be the same as Win7. Win7 drivers will/should work fine under Win8. I expect, that at worst, you'll need to run a driver setup under compatibility setup, to by-pass the OS check system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStockBroker (Post 2981115)
I can't see any of my component manufacturers as having driver support listed as of yet - But was desperately hoping to migrate my main rig over this weekend, as it's well overdue for a full-format...
Are there major changes to the core OS that would prevent Win 7 drivers being used? Although, that said - given how good integrated driver support was for 7, I can't see MS backtracking for 8!

As above mentioned: Windows 8 is based on Windows 7. No report of the kernel of Windows being changed or modified. So Windows 7 drivers will/should work fine. Performance should be the same, or greater (Microsoft did optimize things even further to improve battery life). I expect, that at worst, you'll need to run a driver setup under compatibility setup, to by-pass the OS check system.

JoeK 28th Feb 2012 15:38

Is there an advantage to using a beta? Do you get free upgrade to the original for participating?

longweight 28th Feb 2012 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeK (Post 2981414)
Is there an advantage to using a beta? Do you get free upgrade to the original for participating?

Nope but you do get to play with the software early :)

GoodBytes 28th Feb 2012 16:00

Here are some key new features of Win8:

- No more start menu.
- New Start screen (Metro tiles thing): About it: It cannot be disabled. It replaced the start menu. Items can be grouped with the ability to creating group names. Also, Tiles are live update like on Windows Phone 7, and are movable

What I am scared with the above is the following:

- OEM will use it to show ads. So ads tiles if you will
- Once you install your system, you'll have 200 "uninstall" items in there, which you'll need to remove one by one... because the Start screen, grabs wtv a setup puts on the start menu (compatibility). And if a programs dumps read me file, folder links, help documents.. welll that will be a serious pain.
- ARM version (OEM will have it only, will only work on specific hardware)
- Ribbon bar on all explorer windows, in desktop mode
- IE on Metro mode (Tablets), does not support pluggins, you'll have to switch to desktop mode. A pop-up will show and allow you to do the switch, automatically. HTML5 (and older) only.
- IE10
- New file system (Server edition only), called ReFS
- New multiple language support, and installation for what it look like to be available without the need of any additional disk, and all editions (or at least Home Premium and up). We have to wait and see.
- Different accounts can have different languages from my understanding. But don't wuote me on that.
- New languages available
- New task manager
- No more Start button
- Chimes (side screen menu items)
- Auto switch between wireless and wired Ethernet system
- Auto switch between 3G/LTE to wireless when detected system
- If you have a 3G/LTE or similar cellphone connection for internet, Windows will show you how much you downloaded, and provide service provide specific panel for getting additional information or service change (or wtv they want to give as options/features)

- Software RAID system to expend storage. Kinda like Windows Home Server had.. but redone to work well.
- Built-in Facebook/Twitter/Windows Live thing services, and expendable. So basically, if you want to select a file to open, you can select "facebook", or "skydrive", and you pick your picture/file from there (in your account). This was only demoed in Metro mode
- Built-in Skydrive
- Improved accessibility features
- Accessibility system for tablets, and new OS layout
- Optimizations to improve power efficiency.
- New sensor technology engine, which combines all sensors into one, so simplify developers live by a lot, and make all sensor a lot better (each downside of every sensor type, is compensated by using information from another sensor type)

- Restore your PC at manufacture release. This is great as OEM are too cheap to give you the OS disk. You do this in Windows 8, on the control panel, which is great. They are 2 different restoration modes. One that affects your personal data and programs, and the other doesn't.
- Picture Password log-in (great for tablets)
- Sync your OS settings (or some of them, like log-in icon, background, theme), between your different computers.
- Windows 8 app store
- Improvements to minimize restarts on Windows updates.
- non-intrusive update system. Basically you don't know when it does an update, unless you manually show up the Windows Update panel in desktop mode.
- Background Metro applications auto-pause/sleep when on idle on the back (like cellphones) to save power. It does allow these application to continuously play music, get event notification, and several other things.. so you don't have to worry about that.
- New file conflict management
- New file transfer management system (cause pause/resume transfers)
- New file transfer speed and progress detail pane (with graph)
- Support 64+ processors, and the new task bar layout shows a different layout to fit all in a nice layout, instead of a lot of small rectangles, as it is now.
- Task Manager will show startup programs
- Task Manager will show startup program and their impact on your system (low, medium or high, and can disable them from there)
- Full UEFI native support
- New boot experience
- Improved malware protection and detection.
- Hyper-V on non-Server edition, and has a lot of improvements
- ISO and VHD support and mounting
- Faster Boot
- Native USB 3.0 support
- Lot's of bug fixes and improvements
That is all that we know so far. So it quiet a long list.

GoodBytes 28th Feb 2012 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeK (Post 2981414)
Is there an advantage to using a beta? Do you get free upgrade to the original for participating?

As mentioned, there is 0 advantages. Well.. you get to voice your opinion on what you like or don't, and if you encounter bugs... So you are making your own experience, once it's release, better (well, MS wont' listen to every single minor thing, but if their is a outcry or high demand, they might implement it. It's more focus on bug fixes though. The interface/experience change feedback, should have been said on their blog site)

In addition, you just get to know before everyone what is Win8, how to use it, be comfortable with it, show others the cool features that you found out.

Zener Diode 28th Feb 2012 16:27

I've tried the developer preview and I'll try the beta. It's not going to suit everybody but I think it'll be a significant release and I look forward to seeing what it offers. Windows 7 is by no means outdated, so if you don't like Windows 8 you have nothing to complain about. The great thing is that you get a beta so you can use it and decide if you like it or not.

towelie 28th Feb 2012 17:00

Anyone got any idea on how it will handle as a VM?

If were saying it's like window 7 no problem?? Right?

Don't fancy dual booting!

Also how goods our intel for this release, surely bit-tech would release a news article?

Props to goodbytes for the list:thumb:

GoodBytes 28th Feb 2012 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by towelie (Post 2981513)
Anyone got any idea on how it will handle as a VM?

As the Interface is using the GPU, like Win7 and Vista, it won't be great, unless you have the VM that can handle perfectly smoothly Aero, and have the computer power.

Also, because of Hyper-V integration in Win8, stuff might have changed in the kernel part, so your VM, might have things it doesn't like, where the GPU acceleration wont' work. So far, from leaked screen shots, I don't see any of them with Aero enabled... so that is why I say that. So we have to wait and see, as it might be just the leaker person doesn't care, or uses a VM that doesn't support GPU rendering, or it might cause issue.

Quote:

Also how goods our intel for this release, surely bit-tech would release a news article?
I don't get what you are asking? Expected release date is the same as Win7 but this year. If that is what you wonder. Expect Public Beta tomorrow, RC half way down the line as a minimum. You might get "Beta 2" like in Vista, or "RC 2" like in Win7.

Quote:

Props to goodbytes for the list:thumb:
Thanks.

towelie 28th Feb 2012 17:33

Well tommorrow i'll try it as a VM see how it gets on and post back.

And Goody(your new name BTW:D) i was asking about the information of the beta release tomorrow whether true or false or just a rumour.


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