New iBook and Mac mini - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 27th Jul 2005, 08:26

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/07...book_mac_mini/

koola · 27th Jul 2005, 09:47

About time apple started to get their act together, but I don't think it's enough to tempt me

Darkedge · 27th Jul 2005, 10:06

good news but a shame they miss the graphics boats as usual. plus they will cost the earth again.

When we get intel iBooks things will start to get interesting. I suspect in a negative way.

Gordy · 27th Jul 2005, 10:08

Worst updates yet. The ibook update wasn't bad but the mini didnt get updated it got its price rise and 512mb of ram put in.

The new model is just a version of a bto one before just without the modem.

The mini has been crying out for a decent graphics solution and 5400rpm drive. Apple have done neither, and a lot of people aren't going to buy one as a result (me included).

If they could get a new graphics chip in a ibook they sure as hell can in a mini.

To call the mini new is an insult to their customers.

To sum up I was sat here with my credit card waiting for the updates to buy a fully spec'd one but I now won't I will wait till the intel version it's going to be far better than this pos "update".

/rant over

pman · 27th Jul 2005, 11:04

IF i had the cash, Id wait for the intel versions so I can install XP on em aswell.

The_Pope · 27th Jul 2005, 12:58

Ali: check the prices. Considering the software bundle, they ain't bad IMO.

Gordy: 2 questions. 1) What do you want to run on your Mini that requires more than a 9550? And 2) AFAIK there's nothing to stop you putting a 7200rpm drive in there, if you wanted to. Other than you're "forced" to pay for the crappy one that comes bundled.

pman · 27th Jul 2005, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pope

Ali: check the prices. Considering the software bundle, they ain't bad IMO.

Gordy: 2 questions. 1) What do you want to run on your Mini that requires more than a 9550?

To be fully tiger compatible, you need a chip that suppports all the fancy effects like the ripples on the dashboard.

GreatOldOne · 27th Jul 2005, 13:58

Well Tiger runs just fine on my Mini - I don't miss the affects, as I don't use widgets on it.

However, The Pope is correct on the HDD front. You can get a big speed increase by replacing the 2.5" laptop drive that the Mini's ship with with a normal 7200 3.5" HDD, if you're willing to mod the Mini and have the HDD external to the case.

That or you can buy an external firewire based HDD, like I did, as you can boot from the firewire drive. (Whilst I don't do this, I have seen performance increase in iMovie, when files and projects are on that drive).

Da Dego · 27th Jul 2005, 14:01

Honestly....I hate to say this, but mac hardware is NEVER a bargain price. I don't even have anything against mac, but to say that any of this makes them more tempting is like saying a root canal is more tempting than getting the tooth smashed out with a chisel and no painkillers. I mean, yeah, it is, but you have to really need it before you'd consider either option. I'd rather opt for a mac desktop any day...that's more like just a routine visit to the dentist (unpleasant and expensive, but it gets you somewhere you need to be).

Gordy · 27th Jul 2005, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pope

Ali: check the prices. Considering the software bundle, they ain't bad IMO.

Gordy: 2 questions. 1) What do you want to run on your Mini that requires more than a 9550? And 2) AFAIK there's nothing to stop you putting a 7200rpm drive in there, if you wanted to. Other than you're "forced" to pay for the crappy one that comes bundled.

1. As stated above the 9000 32mb card doesnt support all of os x's features for starters and has problems with supplying certain monitors with a proper signal.

2. Why should I have to buy another hdd, it doesn't make sense

3. I don't mind paying over the odds for mac stuff but when the technology is years old and they can't be bothered to upgrade the mini properly why should I get one , I will save the money and use it for something more useful.

The_Pope · 27th Jul 2005, 15:05

As GOO says, he doesn't miss the effects, so I just wondered. It's not like you need the power for gaming, for example.

As for the hard drive, you buy if if you *need* it. The mini is an entry-level system for people who want a lower-cost entry to "easy" computing via Mac. Apple aren't going to condem those price-sensitive users to a more expensive hard drive option if it isn't a necessity.

Actually, that word "option" is the key - if you could customise your mini at an Apple Store, then you wouldn't have to pay for the crap drive.

GOO: I was actually thinking of just using a 2.5" 7200rpm drive, like the one in my notebook, but yes - external options exist too - didn't think of that!

And while I'm replying to everyone in this thread, Dego, I never said it was a "bargain". However, if you're someone who doesn't just pirate all software for free, the Mini *does* represent decent value. People will argue that you can build a decent PC for the same money (though never one as compact and schpanky-looking), but consider for a moment that OS X is easily as good or better than Windows XP, and that XP will not come with your self-built system.

Take the Mini's £359 inc vat price, and subtract either £54 or £94 for XP Home or Pro OEM (or £170 / £249 (!!!!) for retail) and things start getting interesting. It's hard to put a dollar value on iLife but you're getting industry leading music making / video editing / DVD creating software and your equivalent PC has to do the same and be now be costing less than £265-£305.

I'm no Mac fanboy like some of the staff, but there's no arguing with those numbers.

Da Dego · 27th Jul 2005, 15:19

Ok, pope. I do see your point there.

Sorry, I read bargain when the word used was value, and that does change things.

However, I can go buy an e-machines for $299 with a P4 2.8-3.0 processor, 512mb of memory, a 15" TFT, bundled software, and winXP. So, let's compare apples with apples, because a pre-built system is a pre-built.

And Mac OS being better than windows is completely subjective, so it's not a point that can be contended in a value argument. The fact that the mini has an OS is one thing, but to say more value is introduced due to the quality of said OS takes the argument outside of quantifiable parameters.

DreamTheEndless · 27th Jul 2005, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Dego

And Mac OS being better than windows is completely subjective, so it's not a point that can be contended in a value argument. The fact that the mini has an OS is one thing, but to say more value is introduced due to the quality of said OS takes the argument outside of quantifiable parameters.

[TROLLING]No - OS X is just plain better - not subject to subjectiveness. No viruses, no signifigant security leaks, more stability, more features, better networking, better memory management..... Etc....
[/TROLLING]

Oh - and to those who say that it wasn't an upgrade -
While the 1.4g mini lost its modem, it also gained 256mb more ram and bluetooth and 802.11g standard for the same $599 price. Nice upgrade.

Also, they've removed speeds from the specs page, probably because people were complaining, but when they did publish them the 40gb hard drive in the 1.25g mini was a 5400rpm and 1.42 mini was a 4200rpm

Da Dego · 27th Jul 2005, 16:29

Oooh, I may have missed the wireless additions. That part IS a nice upgrade, particularly for an SFF system.

And the reason mac doesn't have virii (which isn't entirely true) is because simply there is not the user base to make it worth writing one. Honestly, why would you write a virus for something that 5% of the population uses when you can write one for something 90-95% of the population uses?

Same thing with Unix/Linux/Sun/etc. It's safety by obscurity, and that's all. Give 90% of the people of the computer-using world free macs, and you'll see viruses, trojans, etc spring up all over the place within months.

RTT · 27th Jul 2005, 16:42

Has anyone considered that putting a better graphics chip and HDD in may just push the price above the market they are trying to appeal to?

Gordy · 27th Jul 2005, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTT

Has anyone considered that putting a better graphics chip and HDD in may just push the price above the market they are trying to appeal to?

They can put one in the ibook , so why not the mini

DreamTheEndless · 27th Jul 2005, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordy

They can put one in the ibook , so why not the mini

The ibook costs twice as much as the mini......

Gordy · 27th Jul 2005, 22:26

And that cost is mostly due to the monitor keyboard and form factor not the graphics card

The chip itself costs a couple of $'s no more

Green Soda · 28th Jul 2005, 22:42

Out of curiosity, is Apple losing money w/ the mini, or are they breaking even / scoring a profit?

The_Pope · 29th Jul 2005, 01:03

Quote:

And Mac OS being better than windows is completely subjective

Actually, I don't think it is. True, certain users will have a personal preference for one over the other, but I believe that would largely be based on previous experience / familiarity rather than objective opinion.

AFAIK the marginal superiority of OSX over XP is an industry-wide belief, which is why I mentioned it - it isn't based purely on my personal opinion. In fact, because I have used Windows exclusively in my career, I do have a preference for Wintel over Mac; I could never run both like some people do - the tiny differences would drive me bananas.

In any case, it is widely believed, by people who bother to care about such things, that OSX Tiger is superior to Win XP. And I believe the next version, Leopard, will increase the gap even further. I will apparently debut around the same time as Longhorn, or rather "Windows Vista", which should be interesting, since Microsoft are doing stuff like transparent windowing <yawn> that Apple are already capable of doing.

27th Jul 2005, 08:26	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	New iBook and Mac mini http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/07...book_mac_mini/

27th Jul 2005, 09:47	#2
koola Eat my... Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,210	About time apple started to get their act together, but I don't think it's enough to tempt me __________________ PSN: koola-uk

27th Jul 2005, 10:08	#4
Gordy Evil Teddy Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bristol Posts: 2,485	Worst updates yet. The ibook update wasn't bad but the mini didnt get updated it got its price rise and 512mb of ram put in. The new model is just a version of a bto one before just without the modem. The mini has been crying out for a decent graphics solution and 5400rpm drive. Apple have done neither, and a lot of people aren't going to buy one as a result (me included). If they could get a new graphics chip in a ibook they sure as hell can in a mini. To call the mini new is an insult to their customers. To sum up I was sat here with my credit card waiting for the updates to buy a fully spec'd one but I now won't I will wait till the intel version it's going to be far better than this pos "update". /rant over __________________ modding.gordyhand.co.uk

27th Jul 2005, 13:58	#8
GreatOldOne Thoroughbred of Sin Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Evil League of Evil Posts: 10,288	Well Tiger runs just fine on my Mini - I don't miss the affects, as I don't use widgets on it. However, The Pope is correct on the HDD front. You can get a big speed increase by replacing the 2.5" laptop drive that the Mini's ship with with a normal 7200 3.5" HDD, if you're willing to mod the Mini and have the HDD external to the case. That or you can buy an external firewire based HDD, like I did, as you can boot from the firewire drive. (Whilst I don't do this, I have seen performance increase in iMovie, when files and projects are on that drive). __________________ "The iPhone is like some glorious early-60s sports car. Not as practical, reliable, economical, sensible or roomy as a family saloon but oh, the joy." - Stephen Fry A GOO-ster is Born - Build Diary Electronics Help Needed! RSS Twitter

27th Jul 2005, 14:01	#9
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	Honestly....I hate to say this, but mac hardware is NEVER a bargain price. I don't even have anything against mac, but to say that any of this makes them more tempting is like saying a root canal is more tempting than getting the tooth smashed out with a chisel and no painkillers. I mean, yeah, it is, but you have to really need it before you'd consider either option. I'd rather opt for a mac desktop any day...that's more like just a routine visit to the dentist (unpleasant and expensive, but it gets you somewhere you need to be). __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

27th Jul 2005, 10:06	#3
Darkedge Supermodder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 334	good news but a shame they miss the graphics boats as usual. plus they will cost the earth again. When we get intel iBooks things will start to get interesting. I suspect in a negative way.

27th Jul 2005, 11:04	#5
pman Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 88	IF i had the cash, Id wait for the intel versions so I can install XP on em aswell.

27th Jul 2005, 12:58	#6
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	Ali: check the prices. Considering the software bundle, they ain't bad IMO. Gordy: 2 questions. 1) What do you want to run on your Mini that requires more than a 9550? And 2) AFAIK there's nothing to stop you putting a 7200rpm drive in there, if you wanted to. Other than you're "forced" to pay for the crappy one that comes bundled.

27th Jul 2005, 15:05	#11
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	As GOO says, he doesn't miss the effects, so I just wondered. It's not like you need the power for gaming, for example. As for the hard drive, you buy if if you need it. The mini is an entry-level system for people who want a lower-cost entry to "easy" computing via Mac. Apple aren't going to condem those price-sensitive users to a more expensive hard drive option if it isn't a necessity. Actually, that word "option" is the key - if you could customise your mini at an Apple Store, then you wouldn't have to pay for the crap drive. GOO: I was actually thinking of just using a 2.5" 7200rpm drive, like the one in my notebook, but yes - external options exist too - didn't think of that! And while I'm replying to everyone in this thread, Dego, I never said it was a "bargain". However, if you're someone who doesn't just pirate all software for free, the Mini does represent decent value. People will argue that you can build a decent PC for the same money (though never one as compact and schpanky-looking), but consider for a moment that OS X is easily as good or better than Windows XP, and that XP will not come with your self-built system. Take the Mini's £359 inc vat price, and subtract either £54 or £94 for XP Home or Pro OEM (or £170 / £249 (!!!!) for retail) and things start getting interesting. It's hard to put a dollar value on iLife but you're getting industry leading music making / video editing / DVD creating software and your equivalent PC has to do the same and be now be costing less than £265-£305. I'm no Mac fanboy like some of the staff, but there's no arguing with those numbers.

27th Jul 2005, 15:19	#12
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	Ok, pope. I do see your point there. Sorry, I read bargain when the word used was value, and that does change things. However, I can go buy an e-machines for $299 with a P4 2.8-3.0 processor, 512mb of memory, a 15" TFT, bundled software, and winXP. So, let's compare apples with apples, because a pre-built system is a pre-built. And Mac OS being better than windows is completely subjective, so it's not a point that can be contended in a value argument. The fact that the mini has an OS is one thing, but to say more value is introduced due to the quality of said OS takes the argument outside of quantifiable parameters. __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

27th Jul 2005, 16:29	#14
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	Oooh, I may have missed the wireless additions. That part IS a nice upgrade, particularly for an SFF system. And the reason mac doesn't have virii (which isn't entirely true) is because simply there is not the user base to make it worth writing one. Honestly, why would you write a virus for something that 5% of the population uses when you can write one for something 90-95% of the population uses? Same thing with Unix/Linux/Sun/etc. It's safety by obscurity, and that's all. Give 90% of the people of the computer-using world free macs, and you'll see viruses, trojans, etc spring up all over the place within months. __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

27th Jul 2005, 16:42	#15
RTT bwarp Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Berkshire Posts: 12,985	Has anyone considered that putting a better graphics chip and HDD in may just push the price above the market they are trying to appeal to? __________________ This post is non-negotiable. All terms and conditions apply. Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still a retard.

27th Jul 2005, 22:26	#18
Gordy Evil Teddy Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bristol Posts: 2,485	And that cost is mostly due to the monitor keyboard and form factor not the graphics card The chip itself costs a couple of $'s no more __________________ modding.gordyhand.co.uk

28th Jul 2005, 22:42	#19
Green Soda Hypermodder Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 823	Out of curiosity, is Apple losing money w/ the mini, or are they breaking even / scoring a profit? __________________ Signature? ::kna::> And if you don’t agree with me, you know where you can stick it. <Taganath> Mary had a little lamb. It bumped into a pylon. Ten thousand volts went up its arse and turned its wool to nylon!