News CrossFire still hasn't hit shops

[WilHarris]

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/10..._availability/

[dgb]

Are they trying to destroy their credibility/goodwill? It certainly seems like it

[The_Pope]

I guess that depends on whether there are loads of people desperate to get hold of it, yet can't.

[Asphix]

interesting stuff.. I've always been a Nvidia fan, but I'd hate to see ATI mess up now.. I was thoroughly enjoying the consumer-end perks resulting from the competition between the two companies. Their offering for the x360 looks very promising.... maybe just like Nvidia stumbled a year or 2 back, now its ATI's turn to stumble.. loose a little market share and then come roaring back into the picture with the next product cycle.

[Da Dego]

Originally Posted by The_Pope

I guess that depends on whether there are loads of people desperate to get hold of it, yet can't.

No it doesn't. It depends on whether ATI can hold a promise or not, which reflects poorly on all future goods. I didn't even want crossfire, at least not the x850 which is all that would be available now...I was just waiting to see how it finally performed before committing to Nvidia's SLI path, I wanted to give it a fair shake.

But ATI have no interest in a fair shake. They don't even tell their reviewers when and where the product is, they don't allow them to test it, they don't give them any *real* information about it. They bite the hand that feeds them, and I don't think they'll be getting a dime of my money even if they DO beat NVidia...which, I might add, is highly doubtful.

Our release of the R520 is tomorrow. What now, ATI? Gonna throw some more smoke and mirrors at me? I'll be waiting to see if you can hold one promise at all. Or maybe NV just finally raised the bar so high you can't compete.

[Master Ninja]

Holy wars on the Internet are common, but I've never seen people get so heated about anything like they do about ATI vs. Nvidia. "You say ATI has a faster, cheaper, better performing card that also does my laundry? Well they promised it a month ago and it's not in my hands, so I'm never buying ATI again! That'll show them!" (That's hypothetical, I don't know which card is faster).

I love ATI, but I've switched to Nvidia for my current computer because when I needed a card, theirs made the most sense. If I upgrade and ATI's card is better, then I'll buy that. Shouldn't a company's products be the final word on their quality, not their marketing strategies?

[Tim S]

They should, but right now you could argue that CrossFire isn't a product because you can't buy it.

[Asphix]

Originally Posted by bigz

They should, but right now you could argue that CrossFire isn't a product because you can't buy it.

correct. And also to add to that, neglecting to note marketing strategies in this industry is a major foul. So much of the technology and more specifically computer industry is built on hype, anticipation and probablility rather than actual functionality that a good marketing strategy could make or break a company quicker than you can whistle "jimmy crack corn and I dont care".

Look at AMD and their model conversion to the XXXX+ scheme. The processors for a LONG while were still slower than Intel processors but it allowed them to directly compete and helped vendors and merchants sell the product to joe consumer who coudlnt comprehend the technicalities and only the visible number.

In the long run, a product should define a companies quality, but what they promise is just as important. Going by your statement that a companies quality should be measured by their product not their promises then, with ATI not delivering a product at all woudlnt that make their quality zero?

[Da Dego]

Originally Posted by Master Ninja

Shouldn't a company's products be the final word on their quality, not their marketing strategies?

A company's marketing strategy and the way it treats its reviewers/questioners has a lot to say about what it thinks of its consumers.

For instance, if I had Store A, where when I walked in some guy runs up to me and says "Hey, whatever you need, I'll get it for you right away." They're in stock, and I don't even have to really hunt to go get it. The salesman brings it to me with a smile, and even asks me to try it out for a spin. Then offers a lifetime warranty for it...oh yeah, for free.

Now, I could go to store B, and maybe save a few bucks. But I walk in there, and nobody so much as acknowledges me, much less helps me find anything. They promise to be fully stocked, but they don't have what I need for weeks at a time. They promise a sale, but don't have the advertised item...or worse, they don't really discount it. When I show the manager the ad that says this day for this amount, he calls me an idiot and says to come back some other time. If I bring a broken product back, they give me crap about returning it, telling me I broke it and it's past their newly reduced 1 year warranty.

If I could save 10% or even 20% at store B, I wouldn't. The power I have as a consumer is to not pay for duplicitous business practices, or crappy service. ATI has provided both of those things...a bunch of lies on product release, and crappy service to their reviewers and fans. It's disrespectful of both to think that they should just sit there and wait on ATI to get their act together, without so much as two bits of real info. And that doesn't even get into all the OTHER shady things the company seems to have done lately...

Would YOU buy from someone who thinks you're that stupid or unimportant?

[Cheap Mod Wannabe]

DaDego you coud've said that by this sentence:

You can buy at ebay or at newegg.



As for Crossfire... =DD My god it is totally ridiculous.
I would not buy Crossfire just because they delayed it.
It shows that they are unorganized, having problems and etc.
If they would have said it that we will release it by the end of 2005 then it would have been different, but announcing it with a big boom so early and then releasing it for reviewers but not for public. Just gather your balls (no offense but there should be at least two of them there) and go out public and say, we are having unexpected problems, or nVidia was trying to sleep with us but we were trying to resist hard so Crossfire will be released not sooner than October 12th, 2005. Knowing what is happening makes people chill. Not knowing leads to fear, paranoia and other things... oh and not knowing leads to people buying GF 7800. You should've known better ATI. I am a bit dissapointed.

[kiljoi]

This is fairly intersting. I always love to see giants take a fall. Now, seriously, why in the hell would ATI do this? It makes no sense at all. It would have been better to just never mention anything, and not break your word, than try to make people giddy about a deadline you can't meet.

[Da Dego]

Originally Posted by Cheap Mod Wannabe

If they would have said it that we will release it by the end of 2005 then it would have been different, but announcing it with a big boom so early and then releasing it for reviewers but not for public.

Just a note on this (I agree with all the rest, cheap)...

Let's take a look at how much "review" even the reviewers got of crossfire...
1) Must be on ATI's at least semi-short list to even get a glimpse, much less...
2) Get to spend less than a weekend with a release candidate board (NOT final hardware) and buggy drivers...
3) that you get to plug already antiquated graphics hardware into while...
4) obeying a bunch of "Do not compare to..." rules.

It would be one thing if the reviewers actually got something to work with. But this was another ATI effort to keep the time to a minimum so that the reviews couldn't be in-depth or insightful, and they were handcuffed and gagged with "Do not compare" and NDA orders. Another smoke and mirrors game...I wouldn't call it an actual "release to reviewers" even, more like "dangled in front of reviewers."

[Cheap Mod Wannabe]

Well that makes Ati look even worse Da Dego =)

[Da Dego]

Originally Posted by Cheap Mod Wannabe

Well that makes Ati look even worse Da Dego =)

Truth hurts, don't it? And that ain't the half of it. Look around on the 'net for some other great ones, like the leaking of e-mails to punish Sander's site. And I'm sure there's probably plenty that just nobody has talked about yet, scared to lose ATI's favor.

'Tis a shame, really...I'm no NV fanboy, I'd love to buy based on the best product out there. And it's not like NV never had a bad day...either in publicity or product. But I flat out refuse to deal with or reward shady businesspeople, and ATI in this round have more than illustrated a real lack of business ethics.

[Cheap Mod Wannabe]

What happened in Ati's liar though?

Any ideas or info on thermonuclear meltdown or something else? Maybe after manufacturing the crossfires they did not work as well in real life as it was expected and Ati was trying to tweak, or maybe lower the cost of cards in order to make i appealing? Are they making something sneaky and amasing like some feature that will blow our minds of when/if they will eventually start selling the cards?

What's the deal... please share your thoughs.... I don't pay for the bandwith.

[Tim S]

Originally Posted by Da Dego

But I flat out refuse to deal with or reward shady businesspeople, and ATI in this round have more than illustrated a real lack of business ethics.

I'm not saying that either companies are shady, but they've both had their issues in the past... It goes round in circles and when one is behind, the other will resort to 'shady' business practices, as you refer to it.

[Da Dego]

Originally Posted by bigz

I'm not saying that either companies are shady, but they've both had their issues in the past... It goes round in circles and when one is behind, the other will resort to 'shady' business practices, as you refer to it.

True, true...like I said, not like NV has never had a bad day... But ATI are getting a bit over-the-top. I never remember NV leaking e-mails...

Anywho, update:

It is October 5. The grand release of the x1800, 1600, and 1300 series of cards in the US. I have checked all major retailers online and called a couple major chains in my area.

They do not have them. The retailers I called do not know when they are getting them. Or IF they're getting them before christmas.

ATI cheesecake!!!