News HD-DVD for Xbox 360 confirmed

[WilHarris]

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/01...60_hd_dvd_yes/

PS3 has Blu-Ray, Xbox 360 has HD-DVD. Who's going to win?

[sadffffff]

i bet an exploit comes forth from this to compromise the console and allow unauthorized code to be run like linux and homebrew apps and backups and the like.. or has that already happened? i havent been paying attention

[eek]

Originally Posted by mrhaz

S3 has Blu-Ray, Xbox 360 has HD-DVD. Who's going to win?

As it stands MS is in the better position. It's HD-DVD is only going to be an add on so if Blu-Ray does win all MS have to do is stop making them - no biggie.

On the other hand, if HD-DVD wins the PS3 is going to be stuck with an obsolete drive for the next 10 years (apparently). This is not only going to mean video playback on the PS3 will be serverly limited, but will also push the cost of manufacturing games up (less support for blu-ray, ecomomies of scale etc).

Personally I hope Sony wins just because it offers a larger capacity and moving to a blue laser makes far more sense than trying to squeeze as much out of red lasers as possible, it's time to move on!!

[BlueDemon]

So... a few months after this add-on HD-DVD drive has been released, it will become the standard drive shipping with/inside the console itself? I would very much prefer to have it inside the box instead of having to find an additional space to put it (would look kinda messy imho...).

[eek]

Originally Posted by BlueDemon

So... a few months after this add-on HD-DVD drive has been released, it will become the standard drive shipping with/inside the console itself? I would very much prefer to have it inside the box instead of having to find an additional space to put it (would look kinda messy imho...).

I guess there possibly could be an enhanced "media version" or something, but you must remember that this HD-DVD drive is only going to be for films etc. However there is no way they could put games on it as not everyone would have the drive and they can't force people to buy it so it will only ever be an extra feature, not a core one.

Of course MS may decide to replace it's DVD drive with this HD drive if it was economical, however as all MS xbox profit comes from the sale of games/add ons so I can see them charging a fortune for this and really milking it! Just look at the cost of the hard drive and wifi, it's insane!

[BlueDemon]

Originally Posted by eek

Of course MS may decide to replace it's DVD drive with this HD drive

That's what i meant by having the drive inside the box, that it would replace the standard DVD drive. A HD-DVD drive is backwards compatible with DVD, isn't it? (all these "standards" have me confused )

Originally Posted by eek

Just look at the cost of the hard drive and wifi, it's insane!

Haven't done the exact math myself, but 100 USD, or even 100 euros doesn't seem excessive for a hard drive and WiFi device. I'm not so keen on a USB WiFi adapter, it would have been much tidier to have it integrated in the console itself. Also, I wonder if it supports all the necessary configuration options to allow it to connect to a WPA or WPA2-protected router?

[Bindibadgi]

Originally Posted by BlueDemon

So... a few months after this add-on HD-DVD drive has been released, it will become the standard drive shipping with/inside the console itself? I would very much prefer to have it inside the box instead of having to find an additional space to put it (would look kinda messy imho...).

That's the crack and why Sony will win unless MS start releasing Xbox360s with HD drives. People just wont stand for spending more money buying add-ons, and having half a dozen things plugged into it looking like crap. Since the current DVD drive is a POS and scratches disks MS would be wise to change it though, imo.
The thing is, since accessories are ALWAYS expensive I can imagine the HD drive also being expensive, unless MS use it, like Sony, as a foothold into the HD-Video market.

[BoomAM]

Originally Posted by eek

Personally I hope Sony wins just because it offers a larger capacity and moving to a blue laser makes far more sense than trying to squeeze as much out of red lasers as possible, it's time to move on!!

Who cares what colour laser it uses, as long as it performs well and holds alot of data.
BTY:

Source: Wikipedia
HD DVD (High Definition DVD) is a digital optical media format which is being developed as one standard for high-definition DVD. HD DVD is similar to the competing Blu-ray Disc, which also uses the same CD sized (120 mm diameter) optical data storage media and 405 nm wavelength blue laser.

Both BlueRay & HD-DVD use Blue Lasers. Not one red, one blue.

I'd personally prefer HD-DVD. The disks arnt as fragile as BlueRay, if Wikipedias info on them are anything to go by (thicker protection layer on HD-DVD), and according to alot of CD manufacturs, they're easyier & cheaper to produce.

Info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

[Hamish]

hd-dvd sucks because its tiny, 30gig on a dual layer disc? pfft get nearly that much on a single layer blu-ray
for that sole reason i prefer blu-ray

[Bindibadgi]

Sod em both tbh. Give me holographic media.

[BoomAM]

Originally Posted by Hamish

hd-dvd sucks because its tiny, 30gig on a dual layer disc? pfft get nearly that much on a single layer blu-ray
for that sole reason i prefer blu-ray

Have you used either format? No you havnt. So how can you have a preference on something you havnt used yet?!

HD-DVD supports more than 2 layers, and can store more than 15Gb per layer. As it matures it will hold more and more.

What have you got that wont fit on a HD-DVD anyway?, thats of any importence? A 1080i movie with 5.1 DD is only 15Gb anyway!

[Boon]

Does anyone seriously believe The PS3 is not going to trounce the 360 well and truely? I'm no Sony fanboy (Big N here) but honestly.

To replace the internal drive would require some not so insignificant redesign of the 360 to allow HDMI or DVI output that would support HDCP hence and external drive is pretty much the only option over a new unit.

[BoomAM]

I find magazines funny that compare the PS3 to the 360 and say its better/faster/whatever.
Theres no hard facts on the PS3 yet HW wise, and preliminary benchmarks show the Cell processor to be a very poor processor, and the RSX to be nothing more than a tweaked 7800(which is no bad thing).

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by BoomAM

Have you used either format? No you havnt. So how can you have a preference on something you havnt used yet?!

HD-DVD supports more than 2 layers, and can store more than 15Gb per layer. As it matures it will hold more and more.

What have you got that wont fit on a HD-DVD anyway, thats of any importence. A 1080i movie with 5.1 DD is only 15Gb anyway!

because from the information thats available its clear that blu-ray will have higher capacity....

from the wikipedia page you linked

HD DVD has a single layer capacity of 15 GB and a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB. Toshiba has announced that a triple-layer disc is in development, which would offer 45GB of storage. This is smaller than its primary competitor Blu-ray Disc, which supports 25GB for one layer, 50GB for two and 100GB for four

triple layer hd-dvd is possible but thats still a pitiful 45gig, you get more off a 2 layer blu-ray and 4-layer blu-ray discs are on the way
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/media/tdk4.jpg

if it turns out that by the time they both hit mainstream hd-dvd discs have better capacity than blu-ray (which seems unlikely) thats what i'll buy
but from the information available now that is not the case therefore my preference if i was buying right now is blu-ray

as for what i have that wont fit on a blu-ray..
well my fileserver is currently 700gig, thats too small im running out of space
backing it up to dvd-r's is a major pain in the arse
being able to backup onto 7 or 8 blu-ray discs is much more convienent than backing up onto 16+ hd-dvd

[BoomAM]

Originally Posted by Hamish

well my fileserver is currently 700gig, thats too small im running out of space
backing it up to dvd-r's is a major pain in the arse
being able to backup onto 7 or 8 blu-ray discs is much more convienent than backing up onto 16+ hd-dvd

If your so concerned about backing up. You shouldnt be using optical media anyway.

As for 'what you'll buy'.
I doubt, that unless you want to railroad yourself into a format that may or may not 'live' past a year, that you'll bother wasting money when they're released.

If you want to stick with your 'BlueRay 4TW' opinion, then thats fine. All im saying is try to be a little more open about the two, and dont make decisions on what you think is best, because neither spec has been finalised, and until they hit retail properly, none of us will know for sure about the specs. Initially.

Oh, and your pic is an engineering sample. Not all engineering samples get anywhere near retail.

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by BoomAM

If your so concerned about backing up. You shouldnt be using optical media anyway.

really, what do you suggest i use then, tapes? really not worth it
optical media is the best option for what i want to do

Originally Posted by BoomAM

As for 'what you'll buy'.
I doubt, that unless you want to railroad yourself into a format that may or may not 'live' past a year, that you'll bother wasting money when they're released.

did you even read what i said, im far from railroading myself into either format
i specifically said i'd buy whichever has the largest capacity once they've both matured a bit

Originally Posted by BoomAM

If you want to stick with your 'BlueRay 4TW' opinion, then thats fine. All im saying is try to be a little more open about the two, and dont make decisions on what you think is best, because neither spec has been finalised, and until they hit retail properly, none of us will know for sure about the specs. Initially.

Oh, and your pic is an engineering sample. Not all engineering samples get anywhere near retail.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...704979,00.html
not quite retail yet but pretty close

and yes engineering sample, maybe blu-ray wont get to 4 layers but im pretty damn confident that they'll get to 2 which will still beat hd-dvd even if hd-dvd manage to get 3 layers

[BoomAM]

Originally Posted by Hamish

really, what do you suggest i use then, tapes? really not worth it
optical media is the best option for what i want to do

If that 700Gb of data is really importent to you, then optical media is not what you should be using. Tape or HDD backup arrays are the best forms of backup.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...704979,00.html
not quite retail yet but pretty close

As long as the basic spec stays the same, the media is free to change in capacity. Like CD & DVDs have. First Gen drives are not an indication of the final specs of the format.

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by BoomAM

If that 700Gb of data is really importent to you, then optical media is not what you should be using. Tape or HDD backup arrays are the best forms of backup.

indeed and if it were data thats likely to change (databases, docs etc) i would be using tapes or removable hard drives, but its not its all media files
its more archiving than anything else, i burn stuff to dvd, stick it on a spindle and put it in a cupboard
tape and hard drives would be too expensive

Originally Posted by BoomAM

As long as the basic spec stays the same, the media is free to change in capacity. Like CD & DVDs have. First Gen drives are not an indication of the final specs of the format.

true enough, but i still think blu-ray is likely to keep its capacity lead over hd-dvd
in the end i dont really care which one has the most capacity, ill happily use either

[BoomAM]

Have you thought of buying 2 External 500Gb drives? While they would be more expensive at the moment. In the long run, they would save you a fortune, and allow an extra few hundred Gb of storage space to allow your primary drives to grow somewhat.

[Hamish]

i have, it works out more. dvd-r's are dirt cheap, its not hte cost thats a problem with them just the hassle of actually burning stuff
i prefer to buy big disks and expand my raid array then archive/backup stuff to opticals

anyway, i think we've gone quite far enough off-topic now