News Next-gen DRM looks bleak

[WilHarris]

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/01/23/next_gen_drm/

[sgtpeppa]

It looks like it's going to be prohibitively expensive for most people to get a PC which can play a legal HD format for the next few years, I certainly can't see it myself after I've dropped so much money on hardware recently (definitely can't afford to again soon). Looks like I'd have to spend around £1000 just to watch HD movies (while keeping my current requirements for gaming, etc.)? Ridiculous.

Surely it's only a matter of time before someone reverse engineers these formats? Or we'll all just stick with DVD forever.

[Buzzons]

oh yay!! Means i get a new screen ^_^ w00t

(end of sarcasum)

WTF do they think they are doing!

[mclean007]

(1) What a load of garbage! So all those people who've recently spent big cash on HTPCs will have to shell out not only for a Blu-ray / HD-DVD drive, but also a new graphics card and a new TV, if their current HDTV set doesn't support HDCP?? How many people are going to stand for that? If I were in that situation I'd just boycott both HD formats until either (a) they drop the ridiculous DRM scheme, or (b) someone comes up with a crack that lets me watch legit HD discs through my HTPC at hi-res without 'sanitised' hardware, or (c) the pirates started cranking out DRM-free HD copies, which will undoubtedly happen at some point soon. In any event, the net effect is going to be to hamper the uptake of HD formats, and the studios not only won't beneft from their pointless DRM (as it will be defeated anyway), but they will in fact lose out on revenues that would have accrued had they given the consumer a fair deal.

(2) The more restrictive the DRM, the more determined the crackers will be to defeat it, and, as you point out, the more rife piracy will be. I can totally understand why someone would be attracted by the idea of paying less money for an illegal copy without the DRM bs blocking them from using it as they want than for a crippled legit copy which they can't play at full res on their "legacy" hardware (i.e. almost anything out there right now apart from the latest LCDs and some plasmas, which incorporate HDCP). Given that Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs will almost certainly sell at a premium, and the drives certainly will sell at a premium, at least for the first couple of years, who's going to sit back and accept a downscaled image which will probably be worse than DVD?

(3) Downscaling won't stop piracy - until the pirates figure out how to get around the DRM and make perfect digital pirate copies (which I estimate won't take very long), they will make do with standard res copies, which (so the studios would have us believe) will be perfectly acceptable SD movies, or pirate DVDs - the average buyer of pirate movies isn't going to be swayed away from his £5 market knock-off DVD towards a £20 original HD copy simply by the increased resolution.

I find it so annoying that the studios persist in this pointless pursuit of a perfect DRM system, when it is clear to even the most casual observer that any defences they build will be smashed down.

[stephen2002]

It will be broken. It is not like all of the piracy happening today is done by doing an analog rip of the digital source just to get around the copy protection. It is a lot easier and less time consuming to just crack the copy protection and get at the pure data.

It is of course all going to backfire for the average consumer. The people here are mainly tech-heads and can understand all of this nonsense. The consumer is going to stick with their existing sets, see this new box sitting on the shelf that has a "HD" sticker on it, and go "HD is supposed to be better, and I have an HD set, maybe I'll try this." If they are adventuresome they'll buy the disk and the player, bring it home, hook it up, realize that it isn't any better than their old DVD player, and bring it back. There might also be some random message from the player about "your TV isn't supported". The customer that just spent loads of mony buying a totally legal player, disk, and buying a huge HD display just months ago, will be the one that can't watch. The person that downloaded the cracked version from the internet will be the one that can watch. How's that for DRM!

[Fruitloaf]

I think this is will completely stop HD taking off in this country and probably abroad too, why would I upgrade my PC to HD when my WUXGA can't play the content in a resolution reasonably better than DVD. Luckily I haven't bought a plasma or similar screen but I'd be really pissed off if I had and was now told that my £1000 investment was defunct.

[mclean007]

Originally Posted by stephen2002

It will be broken. It is not like all of the piracy happening today is done by doing an analog rip of the digital source just to get around the copy protection. It is a lot easier and less time consuming to just crack the copy protection and get at the pure data.

Agreed. Let's be realistic - if there's a market worth many hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars a year resting on cracking a DRM system, that's a fair incentive to the many very bright crackers out there to put their backs into it. My guess - within 6 months of the first consumer players and movie discs being on the market there will be perfect digital pirate copies in circulation (sans DRM) and there will be Chinese players on the market with a simple remote control hack to enable them to output HD over component, VGA and non-DRM DVI and HDMI. My guess is that these players will also support both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, effectively killing off the 'format battle'. When those players hit the market, I will buy. Not before.

[Bindibadgi]

Originally Posted by stephen2002

It will be broken. It is not like all of the piracy happening today is done by doing an analog rip of the digital source just to get around the copy protection. It is a lot easier and less time consuming to just crack the copy protection and get at the pure data.

It is of course all going to backfire for the average consumer. The people here are mainly tech-heads and can understand all of this nonsense. The consumer is going to stick with their existing sets, see this new box sitting on the shelf that has a "HD" sticker on it, and go "HD is supposed to be better, and I have an HD set, maybe I'll try this." If they are adventuresome they'll buy the disk and the player, bring it home, hook it up, realize that it isn't any better than their old DVD player, and bring it back. There might also be some random message from the player about "your TV isn't supported". The customer that just spent loads of mony buying a totally legal player, disk, and buying a huge HD display just months ago, will be the one that can't watch. The person that downloaded the cracked version from the internet will be the one that can watch. How's that for DRM!

Yea. I'll give it 6 months. It's DRM like this that proliferates piracy because it makes it HARDER for the genuine consumer. Also, why would people stop buying more expensive HD disks over cheaper DVDs if they arent going to get any better picture?
The problem with the average consumer is that they'll buy the disk and player then take it home and THINK it looks better if they arent told otherwise.

[ch424]

This is the best case scenario I can see:
Graphics card: Maybe nVidia and ATi can enable it with new drivers?
Drive: You'd have to buy anyway.
Monitor: Noone wants to replace an expensive monitor. Maybe there'll be a GFX driver hack that reports the monitor as compliant?
OS: I'm gonna upgrade to Vista anyway...

Failing that, pirated films will actually be higher quality than the legal versions. That really is shooting themselves in the foot.

ch424

[mclean007]

Originally Posted by Bindibadgi

The problem with the average consumer is that they'll buy the disk and player then take it home and THINK it looks better if they arent told otherwise.

Interesting.

Conspiracy theory - the whole HD thing is nothing but the emperor's new clothes. Sell someone a fancy flat panel and a tarted up DVD player and whack 50% on the going rate for movie discs, and if anyone dares to complain that the picture is no better than DVD, tell them it's because their TV doesn't support DigitalStraitjacket(TM), and if that fails, shut them up with a hefty legal letter from the RIAA / MPAA threatening to send the boys round.

[mclean007]

Originally Posted by ch424

This is the best case scenario I can see:
Graphics card: Maybe nVidia and ATi can enable it with new drivers?
Drive: You'd have to buy anyway.
Monitor: Noone wants to replace an expensive monitor. Maybe there'll be a GFX driver hack that reports the monitor as compliant?
OS: I'm gonna upgrade to Vista anyway...

Failing that, pirated films will actually be higher quality than the legal versions. That really is shooting themselves in the foot.

ch424

I doubt the powers that be will enable gfx card support through driver updates - that opens the door to hacked drivers that strip out the DRM (as you suggest) for export to non-compliant displays. I would think this is something that will have to be implemented in hardware, perhaps enabled through new drivers. It is, of course, possible that ATi and / or NVidia already has implemented the appropriate hardware, and will enable that feature via driver updates when it becomes relevant.

As regards OS upgrades, I don't know how many people will be happy dropping £150(?) to upgrade from XP Pro to Vista purely to facilitate viewing of movies in hi-def. Of course, new systems will likely ship with Vista pre-installed, but I think the backlash from the installed base of XP Pro users will simply be to find other (perhaps illicit) means of watching their HD content.

As you say, it's going to push a lot of people to 'the dark side'.

[crayfish]

Historic use would not cover the moving or sharing of content delievered via a digital subscription service - meaning that it would be illegal to share any legally-bought or subscribed digital content in any manner other than that expressly authorised by the vendor.

What, like it is now? Doesn't it say at the beginning of every tape or DVD that you can only watch it in your own home, or something like that?

For the screen to need to be HDCP is a bit disappointing, but understandable if it has outputs on it.

Overall, I can't see what the fuss is all about. It's not like there wasn't going to be any DRM. However, I have no HD tech at the moment, so when the time comes to buy it, I can make sure I get the right stuff.

Thanks for the heads up

[Da Dego]

Ugh.

Yet again, I can safely prove my point that the RIAA and MPAA are the ONLY ORGANIZATIONS that honestly TRY to not progress.

RIAA/MPAA: "Digital distribution is bad, m'kay?"
NO! It's not bad, you idiots! Wake up and smell your FUTURE!

Gah. Now I have to go write a whole nother column. Thanks Wil, this was NOT my happy pill for monday morning. I'm too upset right now to even write a coherent angry response to this, so someone please put some very upset and angry words in my mouth regarding the BS that is copy protection and how we apparently now attempt not to learn from mistakes and advance with technology, but build a business model out of the mistakes and try to stop advancement.

F*** da RIAA.

[Gordy]

To date not a single piece of DRM has been sucessful in preventing bypassing by several different methods.

All DRM does is affect the honest customer and reward the dishonest. That simply doesnt make sense in any business.

If its going to cost people money , they simply won't pay it and it will fail , the quick they realise that the better for everyone.

[Hamish]

*renews usenet subscription*

[Gordy]

PS this article is also a great read

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29161

[mclean007]

Originally Posted by Gordy

To date not a single piece of DRM has been sucessful in preventing bypassing by several different methods.

Actually, some of the online content distribution and validation DRM systems have been effective. For example, I don't believe anyone has hacked Steam, and MS appears to have successfully plugged security holes in its Windows Media protection to the extent that WMV10 is as yet uncracked.

Generally, it is only a matter of time, effort and determination to crack any DRM. The reason the above have remained unbroken is probably because they are reasonably difficult to crack and because no-one has considered it worthwhile to do so.

No matter how hard the DRM for HD movies is, the amount such a crack is worth to commercial pirates is such that you can guarantee the effort will be made and it will only be a matter of time before someone succeeds.

As an aside, unless every disc comes with a unique authenticating serial code, and every blu-ray / HD-DVD player requires internet validation before it will play a movie (which consumers will never buy into - can you imagine "Sorry, you cannot play your legally bought disc because this player cannot connect to the server..."), you don't even need to break the DRM to make pirate copies. All you need is a dumb copier which reads the locations of the 'pits' on the disc to form an image (regardless of whether that image can be decoded by the copier) and writes an exact copy of that image onto a blank disc. Then you can make perfect (albeit DRM crippled) copies without even touching the DRM.

[Hamish]

Originally Posted by mclean007

Actually, some of the online content distribution and validation DRM systems have been effective. For example, I don't believe anyone has hacked Steam, and MS appears to have successfully plugged security holes in its Windows Media protection to the extent that WMV10 is as yet uncracked.

you can play HL2 etc without a steam account you know, there are illegal copies of hl2 about
do any big sites use drm'd wmv10? i cant think of any so thats probably why its not been cracked

[mclean007]

Originally Posted by Hamish

you can play HL2 etc without a steam account you know, there are illegal copies of hl2 about

Exactly - because Valve cannot expect everyone to download HL2, they released a retail version, which I believe is what has been used to make the illegal copies. AFAIK Steam is secure.

do any big sites use drm'd wmv10? i cant think of any so thats probably why its not been cracked

That's what I went on to say - if it hasn't been cracked it's probably because it wasn't trivial to crack and no one has put the work in as yet because it isn't worth their time.

WMV10 is used on the HD version of Terminator 2, in the "Ultimate Edition" version, though I hear it is so locked down that quite a lot of legitimate users have had a tough time getting it to work!

[Meanmotion]

That's just chuffing gay!