ASUS raises PhysX stakes with 256MB PPU - bit-tech.net Forums

The_Pope · 29th Mar 2006, 20:19

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03...6mb_physx_ppu/

gpw111 · 29th Mar 2006, 21:16

so how much are these cards actually gonna cost?

most price ranges seem very vague.

Buzzons · 29th Mar 2006, 21:22

discus link broke

Update - Fixed by Admin

wafflesomd · 29th Mar 2006, 21:35

Make it cheaper and im in.

Boswell · 29th Mar 2006, 21:40

Of course this card isn't going to be cheap... lol but you can't say make it cheaper without even seeing a price.
gpw111 --> we don't know yet.

The_Pope · 29th Mar 2006, 21:44

Here's the thing on price: they cost between US$249 and $299 depending on whether you buy a full system from Alienware, Dell or FalconNorthWest etc Annoyingly, neither Alienware nor Dell yet offer the PPU in the UK.

AGEIA said they were "targeting $299" for retail boards. ASUS and BFG are the only partners, so I would guess at maybe $299 in the US and £199 in the UK. Details will be announced in May.

scq · 29th Mar 2006, 21:59

I surely hope that ATi and nVidia figure out how to implement physics processing into their graphic solutions as well, or the unused power in SLi/Crossfire systems, or maybe even just leave it. What else would your fast CPU be used for!? What's the point of an X2, a Pentium EE, or FX60, if all it's going to do is act as a relay between your sound card, graphics card, physics card, and maybe, even someday, a lighting card, an effects card...

I don't want to have to spend $600 on the newest graphics card, only for the game to be limited on the eye candy, because I have to toss in another $300 for physics.

Of course, I'm only guessing that we'll get newer, faster, physics cards every 6 months, driving up top-end cards to $1000+. Maybe we'll get dual physics someday!

NoahFuLing · 29th Mar 2006, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by scq

I surely hope that ATi and nVidia figure out how to implement physics processing into their graphic solutions as well, or the unused power in SLi/Crossfire systems, or maybe even just leave it. What else would your fast CPU be used for!? What's the point of an X2, a Pentium EE, or FX60, if all it's going to do is act as a relay between your sound card, graphics card, physics card, and maybe, even someday, a lighting card, an effects card...

Actually, that makes little sense.
-A CPU right now (in most games) calculates physics, AI, the maps and levels, any in-game physical objects, and the logistics behind the game.
-A GPU right now is DESIGNED to calculate the lighting, visual effects, and just general pixel-pushing. ATi's big hook right now is its ability to calculate HDR+AA at the same time, meaning lighting and visual effects. To make an add-in card to do those things would just replace a GPU.

Quote:

I don't want to have to spend $600 on the newest graphics card, only for the game to be limited on the eye candy, because I have to toss in another $300 for physics.

The eye candy per se will not be limited. A $600 super-duper ultimo GFX card will provide all the AA, AF, HDR, etc that you need, so the eye candy will be taken care of. The physics card simply allows for more realistic physics with less load on the CPU. Rather than having 600 real-time physics bodies, you could have 60,000 (arbitrary numbers). A physics card allows full, heavy boxes to not move around like paper flyers from a slight touch; you all have played games like that.

Quote:

Of course, I'm only guessing that we'll get newer, faster, physics cards every 6 months, driving up top-end cards to $1000+. Maybe we'll get dual physics someday!

Dual physics really, in my opinion, would be redundant. Why put two physics calculating cards each capable of, say, 30,000 bodies each to make 60,000, when you can just scale up the card itself? And what game has 30,000 movable bodies within affectable distance, much less 60,000? Remember, these are arbitrary numbers, but they work for the instance.

Shadowed_fury · 29th Mar 2006, 23:19

Interesting, I wonder though, if they will last for a good few years after investing in one.
I wouldn't want to be upgrading another piece of hardware.

LAGMonkey · 29th Mar 2006, 23:25

Not forgetting that you would use your fancy new silly fast CPU to calculate more advanced AI. CPUs will still be used for that in games as i dont see GPUs or PPUs being used for that when a CPU does the job a whole lot better and the idea of a seperate card for AI just harks back to the day of the maths co-processor.

Itll be VERY interesting to see what differences (if any) you get by adding an extra 128meg of ram onto the card. Ill be keeping my eyes on this one (not like i havent already done that for the past year and a half)

wafflesomd · 29th Mar 2006, 23:31

A CPU does a better job at calculating physics than a PPU?

DougEdey · 29th Mar 2006, 23:44

I doubt that this will take off anywhere near what they expect.

Everyone is going "Ooooooh yeah, I *want* one", want being the operative word.

I won't be able to get one till at least 2007, and I am a student with a good job which I don't really need.

Shadowed_fury · 29th Mar 2006, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

I doubt that this will take off anywhere near what they expect.

Honestly? I think your wrong.

Bit-tech type of people would buy something that would give them 10FPS+.
And I think this could be it.

Bladestorm · 30th Mar 2006, 01:04

Wasn't it valve that said that physics cards/havok were all very nice for adding extra particles/items that didn't have to interact with anything, but the moment the items in question had to interact with each other you were back to cpu ?

I think every game I've seen so far that claimed they were doing support for the PPU was doing it by way of extra eye candy objects instead of taking any actual load off the existing physics. (and as I've seen pointed out, if you add more objects your graphics card is going to have to work harder to render them anyhow)

LAGMonkey · 30th Mar 2006, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wafflesomd

A CPU does a better job at calculating physics than a PPU?

No my friend, a PPU does a much better job. If ive misslead you with my post i must have written it badly.

Shadowed_fury · 30th Mar 2006, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladestorm

Wasn't it valve that said that physics cards/havok were all very nice for adding extra particles/items that didn't have to interact with anything, but the moment the items in question had to interact with each other you were back to cpu ?

I think every game I've seen so far that claimed they were doing support for the PPU was doing it by way of extra eye candy objects instead of taking any actual load off the existing physics. (and as I've seen pointed out, if you add more objects your graphics card is going to have to work harder to render them anyhow)

Yeah true again.
This is gonna be interesting, nobody really knows what they're capable of in all honesty.

scq · 30th Mar 2006, 01:37

I'm still skeptical of this whole physics card thing. It will definetly improve performance, but at what cost and value?

What is wrong with the power of current generation CPUs? I'd rather use that $300 for a faster CPU, than a physics card.

What I meant by eye candy was the entire look and feel altogether. While a graphics card can take care of models, and textures etc. pretty much everything else could fall under the realm of physics. Light bending, reflection/refractions, gravity - duh, particles.

I just don't like the idea of having to buy physics - which is something that should be included with your CPU/GPU purchase anyway.

NoahFuLing · 30th Mar 2006, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladestorm

Wasn't it valve that said that physics cards/havok were all very nice for adding extra particles/items that didn't have to interact with anything, but the moment the items in question had to interact with each other you were back to cpu ?
I think every game I've seen so far that claimed they were doing support for the PPU was doing it by way of extra eye candy objects instead of taking any actual load off the existing physics. (and as I've seen pointed out, if you add more objects your graphics card is going to have to work harder to render them anyhow)

Extra eye-candy like realistic gunshot wounds, not as in realistic like today's games but real-freaking-istic like amazing. Does anyone remember GTA:3, where you could get a mod that would allow limbs to be shot off? That was HUGE around my friends, not because you could shoot off limbs (alright, that was cool, but not the main reason) but because you could realistically shoot. When you've beat the game on super-ultra-hard because you can just spray bullets anywhere, and even a finger wound will kill the person, it isn't fun.
Now, imagine if you will. In today's games, you shoot someone, rudimentary physics (ragdoll) just has them get shot, then BAM. They're dead. Next body. With a PPU, you shoot them in the foot. The foot goes flying, the blood sprays, and suddenly your movement physics changes. How your recoil changes.

Say you shoot him or her in the chest with a HEAVY (large-caliber and -weight) round.
OLD GAME:The bullet goes through, person dies.
PPU GAME: The bullet goes right through, ricochets off a wall, and either it or the ricochet impact debris hits someone, wounding them. The blood sprays realistically and a soldier has to wipe it off, giving you the split second you need to shoot him. The original victim falls slowly, his limp body hitting the man behind him, throwing off his shot.
And that's all calculated in real-time, no scripts. See the difference?

Tulatin · 30th Mar 2006, 03:23

doesn't anybody else see the issue here? These cards are PCI ffs. They're intended to have the computational power of a CPU or GPU. These are items which choke and battle for bandwidth on some of today's fastest interfaces. Then we bring something like this to PCI? The card will probably saturate the bus to such an extent that your nice new X-Fi crackles with starvratory life. Not to mention what's gonna happen to heat levels when you have this card's ass up against your shiny new VPU? It'll suck hot air off the back of one card, while the card above it pulls even hotter air. Great idea, yep...

eek · 30th Mar 2006, 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulatin

doesn't anybody else see the issue here? These cards are PCI ffs. They're intended to have the computational power of a CPU or GPU. These are items which choke and battle for bandwidth on some of today's fastest interfaces. Then we bring something like this to PCI? The card will probably saturate the bus to such an extent that your nice new X-Fi crackles with starvratory life. Not to mention what's gonna happen to heat levels when you have this card's ass up against your shiny new VPU? It'll suck hot air off the back of one card, while the card above it pulls even hotter air. Great idea, yep...

Computational power != bandwidth requirements.

PCI is a wierd choice though as all the really hardcore gamers (who this is aimed at) will be using computers with PCI-express... Why bring out something using a tech which is on its way to becoming obsolete?!

No matter how good it is, I'm not even going to think about buying it til its interface changes!!

29th Mar 2006, 20:19	#1
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	ASUS raises PhysX stakes with 256MB PPU http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03...6mb_physx_ppu/

29th Mar 2006, 21:22	#3
Buzzons Mod Master Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,086	discus link broke Update - Fixed by Admin Last edited by The_Pope; 29th Mar 2006 at 21:36.

29th Mar 2006, 21:35	#4
wafflesomd Hypermodder Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 994	Make it cheaper and im in. __________________ http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1466/goldie.gif

29th Mar 2006, 21:40	#5
Boswell Eddy-B Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 941	Of course this card isn't going to be cheap... lol but you can't say make it cheaper without even seeing a price. gpw111 --> we don't know yet. __________________ \|\|Q6400@3.6Ghz\|8800GT\|4GB Ram\|2TB\|\|

29th Mar 2006, 23:19	#9
Shadowed_fury Natural Born Chaos Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Telford Posts: 7,134	Interesting, I wonder though, if they will last for a good few years after investing in one. I wouldn't want to be upgrading another piece of hardware. __________________ Steam: kev_fury New Frag Video - Gigabyte EP43-DS3L - E8200 - XFX 4870 1GB - 4GB Kingston - - Steel Series 7.1s - Logitech G11 - Razer Diamondback 3G - 2209WA -

29th Mar 2006, 21:16	#2
gpw111 Multimodder Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 92	so how much are these cards actually gonna cost? most price ranges seem very vague.

29th Mar 2006, 21:44	#6
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	Here's the thing on price: they cost between US$249 and $299 depending on whether you buy a full system from Alienware, Dell or FalconNorthWest etc Annoyingly, neither Alienware nor Dell yet offer the PPU in the UK. AGEIA said they were "targeting $299" for retail boards. ASUS and BFG are the only partners, so I would guess at maybe $299 in the US and £199 in the UK. Details will be announced in May.

29th Mar 2006, 21:59	#7
scq Hypermodder Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 783	I surely hope that ATi and nVidia figure out how to implement physics processing into their graphic solutions as well, or the unused power in SLi/Crossfire systems, or maybe even just leave it. What else would your fast CPU be used for!? What's the point of an X2, a Pentium EE, or FX60, if all it's going to do is act as a relay between your sound card, graphics card, physics card, and maybe, even someday, a lighting card, an effects card... I don't want to have to spend $600 on the newest graphics card, only for the game to be limited on the eye candy, because I have to toss in another $300 for physics. Of course, I'm only guessing that we'll get newer, faster, physics cards every 6 months, driving up top-end cards to $1000+. Maybe we'll get dual physics someday!

29th Mar 2006, 23:25	#10
LAGMonkey Group 7 error Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada/Saudi Posts: 1,449	Not forgetting that you would use your fancy new silly fast CPU to calculate more advanced AI. CPUs will still be used for that in games as i dont see GPUs or PPUs being used for that when a CPU does the job a whole lot better and the idea of a seperate card for AI just harks back to the day of the maths co-processor. Itll be VERY interesting to see what differences (if any) you get by adding an extra 128meg of ram onto the card. Ill be keeping my eyes on this one (not like i havent already done that for the past year and a half) __________________ ---------------LAG out!--------------- http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com 100% Brainless]

29th Mar 2006, 23:31	#11
wafflesomd Hypermodder Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 994	A CPU does a better job at calculating physics than a PPU? __________________ http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1466/goldie.gif

29th Mar 2006, 23:44	#12
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	I doubt that this will take off anywhere near what they expect. Everyone is going "Ooooooh yeah, I want one", want being the operative word. I won't be able to get one till at least 2007, and I am a student with a good job which I don't really need.

30th Mar 2006, 01:04	#14
Bladestorm Hypermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 682	Wasn't it valve that said that physics cards/havok were all very nice for adding extra particles/items that didn't have to interact with anything, but the moment the items in question had to interact with each other you were back to cpu ? I think every game I've seen so far that claimed they were doing support for the PPU was doing it by way of extra eye candy objects instead of taking any actual load off the existing physics. (and as I've seen pointed out, if you add more objects your graphics card is going to have to work harder to render them anyhow) __________________ Athlon 64 X2 3800+ @ 250x10 (1.475v) \| EVGA GTX 260 55nm SSC \| A8N-SLI Premium \| 2x(4GB) Corsair Twinx2048-PC3200C2 \| Asus Xonar DX \| Antec truepower 550w \| Akasa Eclipse-62 DDC12VPlus1, DD TDX, 3/8 tygon r3603 tubing, PA120.2, DD double floppy bay res

30th Mar 2006, 01:37	#17
scq Hypermodder Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 783	I'm still skeptical of this whole physics card thing. It will definetly improve performance, but at what cost and value? What is wrong with the power of current generation CPUs? I'd rather use that $300 for a faster CPU, than a physics card. What I meant by eye candy was the entire look and feel altogether. While a graphics card can take care of models, and textures etc. pretty much everything else could fall under the realm of physics. Light bending, reflection/refractions, gravity - duh, particles. I just don't like the idea of having to buy physics - which is something that should be included with your CPU/GPU purchase anyway.

30th Mar 2006, 03:23	#19
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,941	doesn't anybody else see the issue here? These cards are PCI ffs. They're intended to have the computational power of a CPU or GPU. These are items which choke and battle for bandwidth on some of today's fastest interfaces. Then we bring something like this to PCI? The card will probably saturate the bus to such an extent that your nice new X-Fi crackles with starvratory life. Not to mention what's gonna happen to heat levels when you have this card's ass up against your shiny new VPU? It'll suck hot air off the back of one card, while the card above it pulls even hotter air. Great idea, yep... __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690