AMD's AM2 - Conroe to get a free ride on the desktop? - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 12th Apr 2006, 12:26

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/04...onroe_desktop/

hitman012 · 12th Apr 2006, 12:31

I think that people complaining about AM2 not offering intial performance increases are missing the point. It's not a new micro-architecture, it's a new platform - a new foundation for their chips.

AMD clearly aren't (or at least, I hope they aren't) stupid and must be working on something that will at least match Conroe. If they had any sense, they would realise that once Intel declared NetBurst unworkable then, being the #1 chip company in the world, they'd come up with something that was serious competition. I think they've probably got something up their sleeve... but Conroe will beat it to the market.

As for Woodcrest... 939 (and AM2) are both very solid platforms with a lot of headroom: the HyperTransport link can be expanded to cope with multi-core communication, and the on-die controller alleviates a lot of stress on the connection anyway. Contrast this to Intel's offering, where not just the cores share the FSB, but all the processors also; they haven't fixed this since AMD introduced EV6...

Woodcrest and Conroe might be (and are) fantastic pieces of design, but they're hindered by a junk platform. AMD is likely going to remain dominant in the server market for a fair amount of time until Intel fixes that problem.

Neo.Luxembourg · 12th Apr 2006, 12:55

The 939 and the Am2 CPUs, that were tested, have the same p-Rating ...

I don't know about you, but for me it's normal that the AM2 isn't that more powerfull then the 939.

Conroe will be a realy fast CPU, okay, but wait till AMD has the 65nm parts done, then we can compare...

Garside · 12th Apr 2006, 13:11

I just bought a 3ghz Pentium 4. It cost me £100. Am I stupid?

K.I.T.T. · 12th Apr 2006, 13:31

i'd e lieing if i said no...but anyway i don't thin AMD woudl be silly enough to let intel get a leg up on them like this, they've got soemthing ready that is at least as good as conroe but i guess time will tell

Jumeira_Johnny · 12th Apr 2006, 13:55

Call it a leap of blind faith, but I am making a big upgrade to AM2. After living out of a laptop for the last year, I look forward to shifting back to a nice new desktop. While I expect there will be some bugs at first, I also think this platform will mature nicely. I fully expect AM2 to last me 3+ years needing only video and occasional chip upgrades.

Neo.Luxembourg · 12th Apr 2006, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garside

I just bought a 3ghz Pentium 4. It cost me £100. Am I stupid?

£100 = 144.58€ ...

Intel Pentium 4 630 3,00GHz Box 2 MB = € 160,34 ...

I think you got a good price .... but ...

AMD Athlon64 3500+ FSB1000 (2.2 Ghz) = € 145,69

This one is a lot faster :P ...

Drexial · 12th Apr 2006, 14:59

the way ive seen AMD go in the past, they impliment one thing at a time, once they decide one setup is stable enough they move on to the next. like going to dual core, but holding off on DDR2. now that they have a new platform with the dual core, when they find that stable enough i sure hope they have somthing else planned. i knew that the new socket wasnt going to bring much, but it didnt change a few things i thought they were going to.

Nikumba · 12th Apr 2006, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo.Luxembourg

£100 = 144.58€ ...

Intel Pentium 4 630 3,00GHz Box 2 MB = € 160,34 ...

I think you got a good price .... but ...

AMD Athlon64 3500+ FSB1000 (2.2 Ghz) = € 145,69

This one is a lot faster :P ...

Might be a lot faster but dont have to change your mobo over though

yahooadam · 12th Apr 2006, 18:54

DDR2 has higher bandwidth but higher latencies

this kinda evens out the switch .....

DougEdey · 12th Apr 2006, 19:19

I'm not gonna go 939 as its not worth it if AM2 will have almost the same power. Untill the prices come out I won't know how far the old moolah will stretch

yahooadam · 12th Apr 2006, 19:26

lets face it

Conroe is still a mile ahed in performance

If i were AMD - i would be worried

RotoSequence · 12th Apr 2006, 19:29

DDR2 has more bandwidth through higher clock frequencies, subsequently followed by higher latencies. It doesnt "even out" the switch, its the natural consequence of higher clock speeds. AMD has time for one last revision of the silicon (if it hasnt already made it), and it will probably improve performance further, to the point where it makes a somewhat fair improvement. Remember, this is a future proofing maneuver - not a massive performance booster. Socket 478 to LGA 775 anyone?

:EDIT: Conroe is a mile ahead only on a five mile course. The revision F chips make virtually no change to the core architecture - its just revision E chip with a re-designed memory controller. AMD isnt going to compete with Conroe with what is essentially a six+ month old chip design

They have G and H revisions remaining on the roadmap (possibly I, J, and K) before they make a significant change in K8L. What this will entail I do not know. AMD can still pack on MHz with the newly operational Fab 36, they have access to Z-RAM which could allow them to cram all that L2 cache into an area 1/5th the current size of their on die S-RAM. A 65nm process with low power consumption (35 Watt TDPs with the X2 3800+s is what theyre suggesting) will leave lots of room on the process for high clock speed parts that fall within the current thermal envelope.

I wouldnt count AMD out just yet.

Kameleon · 12th Apr 2006, 20:05

Argh. Now is a horrible time for me to need to upgrade. Maybe I can hold out a few more months until things settle down, but I had big plans for a SLI-DR Expert and a 7900GT

I'll probably end up waiting even longer at this rate.

Asphix · 12th Apr 2006, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kameleon

Argh. Now is a horrible time for me to need to upgrade. Maybe I can hold out a few more months until things settle down, but I had big plans for a SLI-DR Expert and a 7900GT

I'll probably end up waiting even longer at this rate.

same here.. every time I think i'm getting closer to an upgrade I postpone it. I'm thinking of waiting until vista and making that my upgrade milestone... but who knows when that'll be

Kameleon · 12th Apr 2006, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphix

same here.. every time I think i'm getting closer to an upgrade I postpone it. I'm thinking of waiting until vista and making that my upgrade milestone... but who knows when that'll be

Indeed. The thing is, I'm wanting to shift my main computer to MCE as well, and while I have an abundance of PCI slots on this motherboard, my next one will doubtless have no more than three, which leaves me looking at PCI-E 1x dual-tuner TV cards to fit everything in. This platform instability is holding everything up for me.

speedfreek · 12th Apr 2006, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphix

same here.. every time I think i'm getting closer to an upgrade I postpone it. I'm thinking of waiting until vista and making that my upgrade milestone... but who knows when that'll be

I just picked a time of year and hope I have enough cash to do so.

Yes cornroll is faster but it took intel how long to realise their mistake. I expect AMD to pull a nvidia, remember when they released the gtx512 right after the x1800 512 grabbing the performance crown back. Besides, AMD probably still will have the best performance for your money.

yahooadam · 12th Apr 2006, 22:52

the gtx512 was a gimmic, it was barley availible

it didnt really improve on the 7800GT architecture atall

AMD cannot catch up with intel with a change like that, intels change is so fundimentally massive, it will take a new design for AMD to catch up

N/A · 12th Apr 2006, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo.Luxembourg

The 939 and the Am2 CPUs, that were tested, have the same p-Rating ...

I don't know about you, but for me it's normal that the AM2 isn't that more powerfull then the 939.

Conroe will be a realy fast CPU, okay, but wait till AMD has the 65nm parts done, then we can compare...

Not true. Are you saying an AXP 3200 is the same as a A64 3200?

I agree with yahooadam. I mean, intel knew that their P4 and P5 chips were crap, and they've been working on conroe all throughout that time. And did you guys even read Anadtech's article? Where's the advertisement for the AM2 socket?

People like me, those who's still running on an old system with AXP and 9800, who's getting tired of waiting will probably just jump onboard with conroe. I mean, If I continue on buying AMD, I'll need a complete system makeover, if switch to Intel, I'll still need a complete system makeover.

But looking right now, I see AM2 getting it's @SS kicked by conroe, so which one would I buy?

Oh yea, isn't AM2 launching within 2 months? if it is, initially the sales will be really low...in my opinion as no one is going to splurge on "new" tech which hasn't matured and paying for the premium of it being new, remember the 754s?

One last thing, conroe's 20% improvement is HUGE, from my AXP perspective, I've seen you all jump to 754s, then 939, and still, I know my overclocked unclocked 2500 @ 2.4GHz can still hold it's own against A64 3200, so really, the performance increases these past year has been at most few percentage at a time. But conroe REALLY makes a big preformance change, and at $300 CAD, it's a steal...

bye bye

yahooadam · 13th Apr 2006, 00:55

exactly

why would anyone go with a AM2 proccesor when Conroe is absolutly whooping its butt

the new tech in conroe is fascinating, and i think i can roughly understand why its so much better

12th Apr 2006, 12:31	#2
hitman012 What is a Dremel!? Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bristol / London Posts: 4,811	I think that people complaining about AM2 not offering intial performance increases are missing the point. It's not a new micro-architecture, it's a new platform - a new foundation for their chips. AMD clearly aren't (or at least, I hope they aren't) stupid and must be working on something that will at least match Conroe. If they had any sense, they would realise that once Intel declared NetBurst unworkable then, being the #1 chip company in the world, they'd come up with something that was serious competition. I think they've probably got something up their sleeve... but Conroe will beat it to the market. As for Woodcrest... 939 (and AM2) are both very solid platforms with a lot of headroom: the HyperTransport link can be expanded to cope with multi-core communication, and the on-die controller alleviates a lot of stress on the connection anyway. Contrast this to Intel's offering, where not just the cores share the FSB, but all the processors also; they haven't fixed this since AMD introduced EV6... Woodcrest and Conroe might be (and are) fantastic pieces of design, but they're hindered by a junk platform. AMD is likely going to remain dominant in the server market for a fair amount of time until Intel fixes that problem. __________________ "Nothing is more practical than a good theory" - Kurt Lewin

12th Apr 2006, 13:31	#5
K.I.T.T. Hasselhoff™ Inside Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: West Midlands, England Posts: 581	i'd e lieing if i said no...but anyway i don't thin AMD woudl be silly enough to let intel get a leg up on them like this, they've got soemthing ready that is at least as good as conroe but i guess time will tell __________________ Founder of the RSPCM (see here) My Blog _____________________________________________ Q6600 (G0) @ 3.40Ghz \| 4GB G.Skill (5-5-5-15 2T) @ 533Mhz \| Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 \| DFI Lanparty UT X48-T2R \| Galaxy DXX 1000W \| 640GB WD Caviar Blue\| 1TB Samsung F1 \| 250GB Deskstar

12th Apr 2006, 13:55	#6
Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jozie Posts: 2,342	Call it a leap of blind faith, but I am making a big upgrade to AM2. After living out of a laptop for the last year, I look forward to shifting back to a nice new desktop. While I expect there will be some bugs at first, I also think this platform will mature nicely. I fully expect AM2 to last me 3+ years needing only video and occasional chip upgrades. __________________ D300+MB-D10\|17-55/2.8\|D200\|50-150/2.8\|50/1.4\|SB-8002 SB-9002\|MBP17"\|4GB\|C2D2.5\|250GB\|OSX10.6 The greater good and individual liberty are not opposites. In fact, nothing which suppresses individual liberty could ever help the greater good. Mah Flickah

12th Apr 2006, 19:29	#13
RotoSequence Lazy Lurker Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 'States Posts: 4,533	DDR2 has more bandwidth through higher clock frequencies, subsequently followed by higher latencies. It doesnt "even out" the switch, its the natural consequence of higher clock speeds. AMD has time for one last revision of the silicon (if it hasnt already made it), and it will probably improve performance further, to the point where it makes a somewhat fair improvement. Remember, this is a future proofing maneuver - not a massive performance booster. Socket 478 to LGA 775 anyone? :EDIT: Conroe is a mile ahead only on a five mile course. The revision F chips make virtually no change to the core architecture - its just revision E chip with a re-designed memory controller. AMD isnt going to compete with Conroe with what is essentially a six+ month old chip design They have G and H revisions remaining on the roadmap (possibly I, J, and K) before they make a significant change in K8L. What this will entail I do not know. AMD can still pack on MHz with the newly operational Fab 36, they have access to Z-RAM which could allow them to cram all that L2 cache into an area 1/5th the current size of their on die S-RAM. A 65nm process with low power consumption (35 Watt TDPs with the X2 3800+s is what theyre suggesting) will leave lots of room on the process for high clock speed parts that fall within the current thermal envelope. I wouldnt count AMD out just yet. __________________ Technology Schmecnology Last edited by RotoSequence; 12th Apr 2006 at 19:35.

12th Apr 2006, 20:05	#14
Kameleon is watching you... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,502	Argh. Now is a horrible time for me to need to upgrade. Maybe I can hold out a few more months until things settle down, but I had big plans for a SLI-DR Expert and a 7900GT I'll probably end up waiting even longer at this rate. __________________ "Can anyone tell me the best way to find out what the ludicrously named 'System Idle Process' is actually doing? I can guarantee it's going to take up 95% of processor resources, just when I'm in the middle of something important." Water/144@2.9/Neo2/GSkill/6800 <@Cainer> eat my pwn, nerds!

12th Apr 2006, 12:26	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	AMD's AM2 - Conroe to get a free ride on the desktop? http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/04...onroe_desktop/

12th Apr 2006, 12:55	#3
Neo.Luxembourg What's a Dremel? Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Luxembourg Posts: 5	The 939 and the Am2 CPUs, that were tested, have the same p-Rating ... I don't know about you, but for me it's normal that the AM2 isn't that more powerfull then the 939. Conroe will be a realy fast CPU, okay, but wait till AMD has the 65nm parts done, then we can compare...

12th Apr 2006, 13:11	#4
Garside Supermodder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 395	I just bought a 3ghz Pentium 4. It cost me £100. Am I stupid?

12th Apr 2006, 14:59	#8
Drexial Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 297	the way ive seen AMD go in the past, they impliment one thing at a time, once they decide one setup is stable enough they move on to the next. like going to dual core, but holding off on DDR2. now that they have a new platform with the dual core, when they find that stable enough i sure hope they have somthing else planned. i knew that the new socket wasnt going to bring much, but it didnt change a few things i thought they were going to.

12th Apr 2006, 18:54	#10
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	DDR2 has higher bandwidth but higher latencies this kinda evens out the switch .....

12th Apr 2006, 19:19	#11
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	I'm not gonna go 939 as its not worth it if AM2 will have almost the same power. Untill the prices come out I won't know how far the old moolah will stretch

12th Apr 2006, 19:26	#12
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	lets face it Conroe is still a mile ahed in performance If i were AMD - i would be worried

12th Apr 2006, 22:52	#18
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	the gtx512 was a gimmic, it was barley availible it didnt really improve on the 7800GT architecture atall AMD cannot catch up with intel with a change like that, intels change is so fundimentally massive, it will take a new design for AMD to catch up

13th Apr 2006, 00:55	#20
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	exactly why would anyone go with a AM2 proccesor when Conroe is absolutly whooping its butt the new tech in conroe is fascinating, and i think i can roughly understand why its so much better