Chinese Man Gets Four Year Sentence - bit-tech.net Forums

The_Pope · 21st Apr 2006, 16:22

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/04...year_sentence/

Confused Fishcake · 21st Apr 2006, 17:22

That is wrong, people in China and other countries where freedom is limited should be helped to get free speech.

Meanmotion · 21st Apr 2006, 17:28

Quote:

News like this brings us to an important question: Should companies truly live by the motto of 'When in Rome, do as the Romans'? Or do they owe it to the shareholders and supporters in more democratic countries to take a stand on individual rights? Tell us your thoughts in our forums.

They 'owe' it to there share holders to do whatever they can to make money! That's why they're giving in to china's demands. It's a f***ing disgrace! People are so narrow minded.

Kaze22 · 21st Apr 2006, 17:43

Honestly nobody is forcing them into China's market. I could understand if China solicited these companies to enter into China's market and was then given restrictions.
The fact of the matter is these restrictions have always been there Sohu, China's biggest search engine has always had to abide by these rules. And you know what China was doing just fine with Sohu for many years, so explain to me again why China should bend their political agendas to better a suit a foreign market influence.
You cannot enter another country and expect the government to treat you with kid gloves. What did Americans expect? Is China suppose to bow down before the might of the western super power and change all their laws in regards to internet control just so a few Joe Blows can feel better about themselves as they sit behind their PS2 half a world away eating Taco Bell.
I mean co'mon the world does not change for the west.

By the way I love Taco Bell.

Anakha · 21st Apr 2006, 21:52

The problem is that if there's a company's branch in china, that's providing the kind of free speech that the chinese government outlaws, then that company is liable just as much as the people themselves. So the question is, does the company do as the country's goverment has legislated, or do they get arrested and jailed themselves, or do they have no presence in that country (And have their "International" site limited and slowed immensely by the government's own enforcement systems).

So, presuming you actually want some kind of presence in a country with strict rules, you have the option of either adhering to those rules, or getting (the staff at those regional offices) arrested and thrown into jail.

Cthippo · 21st Apr 2006, 23:23

I think Google has the best idea. The do business in CHina, but physically maintain their servers elsewhere so that the information on them cannot be subpheonad by the Choineese government. The censor their pages, but tell people they have been censored on a case by case basis. To me this is a corporate version of non-violent resistance and i think it will in the end be very effective. As much as we would like to see the restrictive culture in China change, it cannot be done from without. Instead I think the best path forward is to show the people the alternatives, including "western style democracy", and eventually there will be a critical mass for change from within. The concern I have is that they not leap towards a utopian vision of what democracy should be and land in the festering cesspool of what it is (greed, corruption, etc) and become disillusioned.

Kaze22 · 22nd Apr 2006, 00:02

Just cause Google has their servers elsewhere doesn't mean they don't have to abide by China's censorship. The Chinese government never compromises, if you wanna play in their ballpark you play by their rules. It’s just the nature of a communist government.
I think things will eventually change but it'll only happen when the party allows it to happen, and they're not gonna allow it all to happen at once. Any change will be gradual at best.
As for a western style democracy in China, I seriously doubt it’ll ever happen; culturally speaking China already has an imperialistic spirit imbued upon them through thousands of years of history and evolution. The western ideals of freedom and individuality will never fly in China.

Cthippo · 22nd Apr 2006, 02:09

You're right, but you're also missing my point on the servers. Yes, Google has to censor their pages (with a note that says "This page is being censored"), but because the servers are located elsewhere the government cannot force google to give out user information. In other words, it is very unlikley that we will ever read a thread about someone being sentanced to prison because Google told the Chineese government that they were looking at pro-democracy websites.

Anakha · 22nd Apr 2006, 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthippo

You're right, but you're also missing my point on the servers. Yes, Google has to censor their pages (with a note that says "This page is being censored"), but because the servers are located elsewhere the government cannot force google to give out user information. In other words, it is very unlikley that we will ever read a thread about someone being sentanced to prison because Google told the Chineese government that they were looking at pro-democracy websites.

Of course not. As Google's web servers are outside China, all the traffic has to go through the Chinese proxy servers (As all other traffic from within China to the outside internet has to), so the Chinese government can simply check their proxy logs to find out what their people have been visiting. No need for Google to give their logs.

Nezuji · 22nd Apr 2006, 05:51

Every major corporation and government in the world is trying to cosy up to China. And you hear them all whispering their mantra to themselves: "Over one billion people! A completely captive market! Imagine the profits!" Seems that they don't think very hard about exactly WHY that market is so captive. LITERALLY captive, come to think of it.

The Chinese government is just one more massive conglomerate. I don't really see a way around it. I mean, similar strategies are working very well for Microsoft, McDonald's, AT&T, AOL, Time-Warner...

Funny that the world's largest socialist country (or more specifically, their armed forces) serves double-duty as one of the largest corporations in the global capitalist arena. And don't think that they don't know it.

Nezuji

21st Apr 2006, 16:22	#1
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	Chinese Man Gets Four Year Sentence http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/04...year_sentence/

21st Apr 2006, 17:22	#2
Confused Fishcake Hypermodder Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hertford, UK Posts: 684	That is wrong, people in China and other countries where freedom is limited should be helped to get free speech. __________________ My Laptop: Inspiron 1501: Turion64 X2 TL-52 @ 1.6GHz, 1GB DDR2, 120GB SATA HD, 256Mb ATI 1150, 15.4" widescreen lcd, 8x DVD+/-RW, running Gentoo amd64. My Server #1: Pentium III @ 500MHz, 192MB DDR, 290GB in total, running headless Gentoo x86. My Server #2: Athlon 4 @ 1.7 GHz, 128MB DDR, 40GB, running headless Gentoo x86.

21st Apr 2006, 17:43	#4
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	Honestly nobody is forcing them into China's market. I could understand if China solicited these companies to enter into China's market and was then given restrictions. The fact of the matter is these restrictions have always been there Sohu, China's biggest search engine has always had to abide by these rules. And you know what China was doing just fine with Sohu for many years, so explain to me again why China should bend their political agendas to better a suit a foreign market influence. You cannot enter another country and expect the government to treat you with kid gloves. What did Americans expect? Is China suppose to bow down before the might of the western super power and change all their laws in regards to internet control just so a few Joe Blows can feel better about themselves as they sit behind their PS2 half a world away eating Taco Bell. I mean co'mon the world does not change for the west. By the way I love Taco Bell. Last edited by Kaze22; 21st Apr 2006 at 17:49.

21st Apr 2006, 21:52	#5
Anakha Supermodder Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Eh! Posts: 395	The problem is that if there's a company's branch in china, that's providing the kind of free speech that the chinese government outlaws, then that company is liable just as much as the people themselves. So the question is, does the company do as the country's goverment has legislated, or do they get arrested and jailed themselves, or do they have no presence in that country (And have their "International" site limited and slowed immensely by the government's own enforcement systems). So, presuming you actually want some kind of presence in a country with strict rules, you have the option of either adhering to those rules, or getting (the staff at those regional offices) arrested and thrown into jail. __________________ Robert "Anakha" Johnston Going to Canada on Nov 28th! I'm going home!

21st Apr 2006, 23:23	#6
Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,474	I think Google has the best idea. The do business in CHina, but physically maintain their servers elsewhere so that the information on them cannot be subpheonad by the Choineese government. The censor their pages, but tell people they have been censored on a case by case basis. To me this is a corporate version of non-violent resistance and i think it will in the end be very effective. As much as we would like to see the restrictive culture in China change, it cannot be done from without. Instead I think the best path forward is to show the people the alternatives, including "western style democracy", and eventually there will be a critical mass for change from within. The concern I have is that they not leap towards a utopian vision of what democracy should be and land in the festering cesspool of what it is (greed, corruption, etc) and become disillusioned. __________________ Notice: If we see you flaming we will assume you are on fire and take appropriate measures - The Bit-Tech Fire Brigade.

22nd Apr 2006, 00:02	#7
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	Just cause Google has their servers elsewhere doesn't mean they don't have to abide by China's censorship. The Chinese government never compromises, if you wanna play in their ballpark you play by their rules. It’s just the nature of a communist government. I think things will eventually change but it'll only happen when the party allows it to happen, and they're not gonna allow it all to happen at once. Any change will be gradual at best. As for a western style democracy in China, I seriously doubt it’ll ever happen; culturally speaking China already has an imperialistic spirit imbued upon them through thousands of years of history and evolution. The western ideals of freedom and individuality will never fly in China.

22nd Apr 2006, 02:09	#8
Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,474	You're right, but you're also missing my point on the servers. Yes, Google has to censor their pages (with a note that says "This page is being censored"), but because the servers are located elsewhere the government cannot force google to give out user information. In other words, it is very unlikley that we will ever read a thread about someone being sentanced to prison because Google told the Chineese government that they were looking at pro-democracy websites. __________________ Notice: If we see you flaming we will assume you are on fire and take appropriate measures - The Bit-Tech Fire Brigade.

22nd Apr 2006, 05:51	#10
Nezuji Multimodder Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 247	Every major corporation and government in the world is trying to cosy up to China. And you hear them all whispering their mantra to themselves: "Over one billion people! A completely captive market! Imagine the profits!" Seems that they don't think very hard about exactly WHY that market is so captive. LITERALLY captive, come to think of it. The Chinese government is just one more massive conglomerate. I don't really see a way around it. I mean, similar strategies are working very well for Microsoft, McDonald's, AT&T, AOL, Time-Warner... Funny that the world's largest socialist country (or more specifically, their armed forces) serves double-duty as one of the largest corporations in the global capitalist arena. And don't think that they don't know it. Nezuji