Hybrid hard drive supports Vista flash booting - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 8th May 2006, 14:36

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05...flash_booting/

DougEdey · 8th May 2006, 14:41

mmmm, < 30sec boot up times.

Shame they can't integrate something like this onto an actual motherboard. Say a 2GB flash chip a la nano.

EDIT: Doesn't like not having a space between the < and 3

Zidane · 8th May 2006, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

mmmm, < 30sec boot up times.

Shame they can't integrate something like this onto an actual motherboard. Say a 2GB flash chip a la nano.

EDIT: Doesn't like not having a space between the < and 3

you dont need to, you can allready buy flash ide drives (and quite cheaply too, e.g. here at the mini-itx store mini-itx.com) my ipcop linux firewall boots off a flash drive, and i gotta say, its blindingly fast. (it has the flash as the first drive, and a real hdd as the second, thus the OS is on the flash and has outstanding access times, and all the logging is done on the big hdd, which needs the size more than the speed)

i think its a great idea to integrate this in a hdd though, kind of like a persistant cache. although, i am curious as to how it works, i mean, is it a persistant cache, or an addressable part of the drive? if its a persistant cache, how does the OS expect to force its boot files to be in the cache? (yes, i know, this mysterious program that does it, but i'm still doubtfull)

it looks like a great drive (especially for peeps like me, a lot of the stuff i do requires massive amounts of very quick drive access, this is like having a ramdrive on your hard drive), but i cant help thinking it isnt such a big deal, and i just cant seem to convince myself vista will be spangly just because of a drive.

Meanmotion · 8th May 2006, 15:48

For a desktop boot time doesn't bother me, it's overall access time that's a concern - i.e. how quick can i load a game - so the intel tech would interest me more. However, for laptops this will be aceprowoot! \o/

Tulatin · 8th May 2006, 16:36

Rofl what a rip on those adapters! Got the same thing out of hong kong for a pence. Worked too!

edit: What will they do about the supposed "Limited Lifespan" of flash. After all, it would sure suck to have your flash partition go tits up after a million writes in two years.

Techno-Dann · 8th May 2006, 17:00

Spelling?

Quote:

...produce a Hybriad Hard Drive designed...

Zidane · 8th May 2006, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulatin

Rofl what a rip on those adapters! Got the same thing out of hong kong for a pence. Worked too!

edit: What will they do about the supposed "Limited Lifespan" of flash. After all, it would sure suck to have your flash partition go tits up after a million writes in two years.

i was actually referencing the ide flash units at the bottom of the page (i used those, cause it was eaiser than sorting out the adaptor and flash card, and they are much smaller)

an interesting point though, about the limited lifespan of flash. for my application it doesnt matter so much, the flash drive is write protected, and once its booted, there is little or no access to the flash drive. for a hard drive, however, i suspect that there will be a much higher level of access, especially if it is used as the drives cache. even with the algorythms used in flash drives to spread the write load out over the entire array, i suspect that will be the first part of the drive to go.

Tulatin · 8th May 2006, 17:08

Aye, i noticed them too. Those things are really nicely cost effective.

As to the wearing out the write/read portion, the OS has to stay up to date, as well as have applications installed, and a registry to modify, right?

*Edit* Must type slower so brain can get it all in!

Don't forget the fact too that a single, dedicated OS partition will cause naught but problems. Will it allow other OSes to be loaded, in said partition, or on drive? If not, then Linux Laptop'ers have just been given the shaft.

Kaze22 · 8th May 2006, 17:46

About time. The ideal drive would have 20gig flash, and 100+ gig spindle. This way you install the whole OS on flash and only install programs on HDD. Then add 2gigs of Ram and set aside 512 for pagings via Vista and you got yourself a true next gen laptop.

Kipman725 · 8th May 2006, 18:09

about the life of flash... I'm sure most HD's can't take a few million writes to the same location too. I have been running pc's (with swap files!) from flash for about 6months with no problems.

EQC · 8th May 2006, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

Shame they can't integrate something like this onto an actual motherboard. Say a 2GB flash chip a la nano.

Isn't this what intel's plan is with their technology [robson, if I'm not mistaken]? Not sure how big a flash chip they're planning on though...

Seems like Flash on the Motherboard could conceivably be faster than integrated into the hard-drive too -- since theoretically it could be more hard-wired to the circuit rather than having to obey speed limits of whatever hard drive cable is being used (and the data stream from the flash could also then be in parallel with whatever needs to come off the platters at a given time, rather than competing with that data stream on the same cable).

Adnuo · 8th May 2006, 18:56

Absolutely fantastic. 10GB of flash and 500GB of regular disk storage and I would never buy a hard drive again. Put memory-intensive programs, games, and the OS on the flash, and put everything else on the actual spinning platters.

Fantastic. Now for the price issue...

hitman012 · 8th May 2006, 19:08

Excellent. Roll on the demise of mechanical hard drives...

korhojoa · 8th May 2006, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

mmmm, < 30sec boot up times.

I get that normally.
With a regular xp x64 installation.
I mean, I could even get 5sec boot times with an I-RAM.

Adnuo · 8th May 2006, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitman012

Excellent. Roll on the demise of mechanical hard drives...

Roll on phasing out the only mechanical, and therefore the weakest, component in a PC.

Roll on not losing your 300GB of info because a hard drive decided not to work.

Roll on, good man.

Nexxo · 8th May 2006, 19:57

Already coming. Samsung has made a 32Gb flash drive which is due to replace the HDD altoghether. It can be plugged in like an ordinary HDD. It is reportedly about 1.5 (write) to 3 (read) times faster than an ordinary HDD, but the real kicker is that it only uses 5% of its energy (think Laptop). Moreover it makes no noise (obviously) and is half as heavy. Presumably it will also run cooler.

Rock on.

Da Dego · 8th May 2006, 20:12

now if only it wouldn't cost a bloody fortune...

Though storage space is still an issue, one can still comfortably run most OSs on 32Gb....yeesh.

Nexxo · 8th May 2006, 20:15

More info here. Price is estimated at $960,-- which admittedly is a bundle. However memory prices are coming down all the time... next year it is likely to cost no more than $400,--. The year after we will be hitting very affordable prices.

Confused Fishcake · 8th May 2006, 20:23

Well, in the long run, all memory will be solid-state, just another step on the road. I foresee that in 3 years all drives will be solid-state, since the technology is already here.

DXR_13KE · 8th May 2006, 20:52

the problem is that flash drives have a limited life, and i dont want to lose all my important data because a part of my HD is dead after 5 months of usage, i have a friend that his pendive died like 6 months after he got it.

8th May 2006, 14:36	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	Hybrid hard drive supports Vista flash booting http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05...flash_booting/

8th May 2006, 15:48	#4
Meanmotion Supermodder Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bracknell nr. Ascot Posts: 370	For a desktop boot time doesn't bother me, it's overall access time that's a concern - i.e. how quick can i load a game - so the intel tech would interest me more. However, for laptops this will be aceprowoot! \o/ __________________ Athlon64 X2 4400+ \|\| A8N SLI Premium \|\| 2Gb Corsair XMS Pro \|\| 2*40Gb Raptor (striped) \|\| 250GB External \|\| Radeon X1950Pro \|\| WinXP www.OutForBlood.co.uk \|\| www.4Qradio.com \|\| www.EdwardChester.co.uk

8th May 2006, 16:36	#5
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,942	Rofl what a rip on those adapters! Got the same thing out of hong kong for a pence. Worked too! edit: What will they do about the supposed "Limited Lifespan" of flash. After all, it would sure suck to have your flash partition go tits up after a million writes in two years. __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690

8th May 2006, 17:08	#8
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,942	Aye, i noticed them too. Those things are really nicely cost effective. As to the wearing out the write/read portion, the OS has to stay up to date, as well as have applications installed, and a registry to modify, right? Edit Must type slower so brain can get it all in! Don't forget the fact too that a single, dedicated OS partition will cause naught but problems. Will it allow other OSes to be loaded, in said partition, or on drive? If not, then Linux Laptop'ers have just been given the shaft. __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690

8th May 2006, 18:09	#10
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	about the life of flash... I'm sure most HD's can't take a few million writes to the same location too. I have been running pc's (with swap files!) from flash for about 6months with no problems. __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

8th May 2006, 14:41	#2
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	mmmm, < 30sec boot up times. Shame they can't integrate something like this onto an actual motherboard. Say a 2GB flash chip a la nano. EDIT: Doesn't like not having a space between the < and 3

8th May 2006, 17:46	#9
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	About time. The ideal drive would have 20gig flash, and 100+ gig spindle. This way you install the whole OS on flash and only install programs on HDD. Then add 2gigs of Ram and set aside 512 for pagings via Vista and you got yourself a true next gen laptop.

8th May 2006, 18:56	#12
Adnuo Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 489	Absolutely fantastic. 10GB of flash and 500GB of regular disk storage and I would never buy a hard drive again. Put memory-intensive programs, games, and the OS on the flash, and put everything else on the actual spinning platters. Fantastic. Now for the price issue...

8th May 2006, 19:08	#13
hitman012 What is a Dremel!? Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bristol / London Posts: 4,811	Excellent. Roll on the demise of mechanical hard drives... __________________ "Nothing is more practical than a good theory" - Kurt Lewin

8th May 2006, 19:57	#16
Nexxo ...like a geek! Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 15,115	Already coming. Samsung has made a 32Gb flash drive which is due to replace the HDD altoghether. It can be plugged in like an ordinary HDD. It is reportedly about 1.5 (write) to 3 (read) times faster than an ordinary HDD, but the real kicker is that it only uses 5% of its energy (think Laptop). Moreover it makes no noise (obviously) and is half as heavy. Presumably it will also run cooler. Rock on. __________________ "You actually hope to achieve your ideals, I just use mine as an excuse to hate everything" --specofdust "There is no Real Life, only Away From Keyboard" --gpw111 "...my wife says I can't have any trolls, cause they argue with the dog and eat the fish" --KayinBlack

8th May 2006, 20:12	#17
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	now if only it wouldn't cost a bloody fortune... Though storage space is still an issue, one can still comfortably run most OSs on 32Gb....yeesh. __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

8th May 2006, 20:15	#18
Nexxo ...like a geek! Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 15,115	More info here. Price is estimated at $960,-- which admittedly is a bundle. However memory prices are coming down all the time... next year it is likely to cost no more than $400,--. The year after we will be hitting very affordable prices. __________________ "You actually hope to achieve your ideals, I just use mine as an excuse to hate everything" --specofdust "There is no Real Life, only Away From Keyboard" --gpw111 "...my wife says I can't have any trolls, cause they argue with the dog and eat the fish" --KayinBlack

8th May 2006, 20:23	#19
Confused Fishcake Hypermodder Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hertford, UK Posts: 684	Well, in the long run, all memory will be solid-state, just another step on the road. I foresee that in 3 years all drives will be solid-state, since the technology is already here. __________________ My Laptop: Inspiron 1501: Turion64 X2 TL-52 @ 1.6GHz, 1GB DDR2, 120GB SATA HD, 256Mb ATI 1150, 15.4" widescreen lcd, 8x DVD+/-RW, running Gentoo amd64. My Server #1: Pentium III @ 500MHz, 192MB DDR, 290GB in total, running headless Gentoo x86. My Server #2: Athlon 4 @ 1.7 GHz, 128MB DDR, 40GB, running headless Gentoo x86.

8th May 2006, 20:52	#20
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,485	the problem is that flash drives have a limited life, and i dont want to lose all my important data because a part of my HD is dead after 5 months of usage, i have a friend that his pendive died like 6 months after he got it. __________________ RENEGADE X CONTEST! <---- CLICK if you want to win a free Command & Conquer 4 beta key!