Warner first to distribute via BitTorrent - bit-tech.net Forums

The_Pope · 9th May 2006, 14:48

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05...te_bittorrent/

quack · 9th May 2006, 15:02

I read that the films will be the same price as a DVD. I doubt they'll be in the 4GB+ filesize (maybe they will be, dunno yet), so they'd have to be compressed. Then there's the question of DRM.

Where's the incentive to buy, instead of stealing it for free, or actually buying the DVD?

specofdust · 9th May 2006, 15:23

Not criticising bit here, but why does warner think we should care?

Why on earth would an enduser want to use Bit Torrent for something they're paying for? This is just basicly them trying to appear young hip and cool, and in actuality all they're doing is offloading costs to the end-user, and probably charging just as much or more for the products.

That business model may work on the unempowered folks, but the ones who actually already know what Bit Torrent is, and know how to use it, well, good luck convincing them to start paying £18 a movie and still having to near max their upload.

Lazarus Dark · 9th May 2006, 15:57

agreed, if i'm payin they should set up there own servers so I can download them direct. what about when not as many people are sharing, then my download is slow and I'm not paying for that if its quicker to go down to walmart and buy the nondrm'd dvd.

But think about it, they may use this to track your usage. meaning you MUST share in order to watch and they track every time you use the file. And what if your hard drive crashes, or the file gets corrupted or you move all your files to a new comp, etc, etc. Ten years from now I will still own my dvd's, but will warnerr bros still be supporting my downloaded vids? or will they be broken when the next big thing makes this service obsolete? I say all this assuming i tried to be legal and not crack the drm.

for me, dvd's are just easier. I will only be interested in downloading movies/shows on the following conditions:
1. its cheaper. they don't have to produce physical media, packaging or ship them so costs are reduced therefore i will not pay the same price as i would for physical media.
2. 1080p. thats what my soon to be aquired westinghouse lcd displays so if i'm not buyin a dvd thats what i want. If i buy a next gen pc drive, it will be for blurays potential 200gb writable discs for archiving, I don't plan to buy blu ray movies because i believe downloading is the future.
3. nondestructive, noninvasive, nonrestrictive drm. I understand the need to fight piracy, but I am NOT a pirate i am a customer! I will allow drm only if it is obvious in its activities, has very low system resource usage, and allows me to do whatever i want with my files, ie. move them around my network, move them to portable devices, watch them on any monitor, etc.

And i doubt this service will meet any of those. so it is useless to me.

Kaze22 · 9th May 2006, 20:35

Here's what Warner can do, lower DVD prices WORLD WIDE to equal that of China's prices (1.50/DVD) In one day you will see the end of BitTorrent movie downloads.
Who wants to wait hours for some low quality movie that you can only watch on your PC when you can buy the film and watch it over and over for 1.50. This actually works in China, the average Chinese citizen would rather purchase a film then download it. Of course this would mean the end of North American movie rental industry. But it's the only way, as proven in China if you lower the prices low enough people will choose to buy as appose to download which is always a hassle.

specofdust · 9th May 2006, 20:49

Wow, for once...I actually agree with you Kaze22.

The $1.50 approach would work wonders. The cock-up that Time Warner made when they started that was stating that the Chinese pirated so much, that they had nothing to lose, so might as well try the $1.50 thing. This has lead to the basic impression that if people pirate more, they'll eventually get the $1.50 DVD's. I'm not sure if they're right, I doubt they are, but I'd love to see a day when media cost $1.50.

Kaze22 · 9th May 2006, 20:55

On another note 1.50 media would mean the end of domestric media production as all disk manufacturing, jewel case creation, disk printing, etc etc will all be moved over seas due to lower cost for labor and raw material. All manufacturing will move to places like Malaysia, China, India and etc. This will mean the loss of hundredth of thousands of jobs for you guys. It would also bring about the end of the movie rental industry, another hundred thousand jobs lost for you guys. After massive unemployment in several related media sectors, you will see 1.50 DVDs.
The question is can you handle the aftershock of cheap media.

bloodcar · 9th May 2006, 20:57

I don't mind paying $20 for a DVD but I'm only going to spend $20 on a movie that's actually worth watching.

supermonkey · 9th May 2006, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaze22

It would also bring about the end of the movie rental industry, another hundred thousand jobs lost for you guys. After massive unemployment in several related media sectors, you will see 1.50 DVDs.

I'm curious. Why would this spell the end of the movie rental industry? Even $1.50 per movie, there is no way I am going to buy hundreds of films. For one, I have no place to put them. Second, I only buy movies that I feel are worth owning. The standard Hollywood fare, even at $1.50/film, won't likely end up on my coveted shelf space. Movies that I have no desire to see at the theater ($8.50/ticket is too rich for me) are put on my rental list. If it turns out to be a good movie, it goes on my purchase list because it's likely I'll watch it again.

In that respect, the movie rental industry would still be around. Of course, Blockbuster might not be able to rent movies for $5 anymore.

/me hugs Netflix!

-monkey

Da_BaCoN · 9th May 2006, 22:28

I just don't see the logic in this scheme at all. As everyone else has said - why pay the same price when you could just hop down to the store and buy a "hard" copy of it for the same price?

Plus.... just think about it. The movies are going to be distributed via BitTorrent - a program people use to massively pirate anything. So someone is interested in buying one of Warner's movies... they get BitTorrent and look into it and then also find they can just download the movie (illegally) for free vs $20. By using BitTorrent, they're basically (indirectly) going to just be telling everyone how to pirate stuff.

Plus, say there were "bonusses" for buying the movie via BT. Well, one semi-competent person buys it, then just rehosts it for other BT to download for free.

In summary, this plan makes negative sense. We are all more ignorant for having tried to figure out Time Warner's logic in it.

Kaze22 · 9th May 2006, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by supermonkey

I'm curious. Why would this spell the end of the movie rental industry? Even $1.50 per movie, there is no way I am going to buy hundreds of films. For one, I have no place to put them. Second, I only buy movies that I feel are worth owning. The standard Hollywood fare, even at $1.50/film, won't likely end up on my coveted shelf space. Movies that I have no desire to see at the theater ($8.50/ticket is too rich for me) are put on my rental list. If it turns out to be a good movie, it goes on my purchase list because it's likely I'll watch it again.

In that respect, the movie rental industry would still be around. Of course, Blockbuster might not be able to rent movies for $5 anymore.

/me hugs Netflix!

-monkey

I own thousands of films, and I don't keep'm in jewel cases I keep'm in DVDs Bags that hold 250 each. Trust me once disks are cheap you aren't gonna rent, simple even if renting were lower priced which they are in China about 50 cents per DVD, the fact is even if rentals are equally cheap you would naturaly choose to buy them just to save yourself the trouble. And another thing when DVD are 1.50 you no longer care whether you wanted to see them to begin with, buying DVDs becomes something of a chore like buying potatoes. Actually I remember going out for potatoes and coming home with a bag full of DVDs on many occasions back in the days.
Plus you have to ask yourself, how much a Blockbuster personelle is paid to stand there all day, most likely around 8 us dollars/hour, you then average that out with the amount of rentals it takes to pay this employee. To be competitive rentals would have to be priced lower than sales lets say by 50% at 75cents you would then need to rent 10 DVDs just to pay some kid to stand there for an hour. At that rate Blockbuster will be outta business in no time. Rental would slowly dwindle untill the mere thought of it would invoke laughter and distant memories.
So low media prices maybe a good thing for the long run as more privately owned distribution networks would emerge due to low overheads for media distro, but in the short run a drastic price drop on media will have devastating effects on the Western economy.
But still I'd love to see Western prices at least drop below the 5 dollar mark, that would be a good start in the fight against piracy. When you start selling low it's all about quantity, in turn you may see drops in film quality as well, hell I know I wouldn't wanna watch PRC China films on a regular basis.

Nova · 9th May 2006, 23:52

well, one guy says he read somewhere they will be the same price.... almost every post has hinged on an unofficial tidbit.

i think warner should use dedicated server, ide like to see the set up, such as minimum uploading and such.

what if i want to play source, and not upload so i have a decent ping?

what about a refund to my paypal if i upload more than required?

i see no advantage to just downloading the iso and burning it to a DVD...

dawg218 · 9th May 2006, 23:52

One thing I've noticed is that everyone is worried about jobs being shuffled overseas, where it's cheaper to mass-produce things. Sure, it might hurt us now, but that's kinda how the global economy works. Eventually it's gonna be cheaper to just "outsource" jobs in India to the States... whether it happens in 5 years or 5 decades, it's going to happen, we just don't know when.

As far as this novel concept of Warner trying to appear "hip" and "cool" by using BitTorrent, let's be honest... the only people who are going to be dumb enough to use this new "service" are the yuppies who think that just because they've JUST NOW discovered the joys of BitTorrent, they're going to "stick it to the man" by torrenting movies that are coming directly from Warner's servers.

Of course, there will be screens popping up saying "By clicking 'yes,' you agree to pay Warner XX dollars for the priviledge of watching this movie." The ones who click "Yes" are the same ones who click through 40 pages of warning screens when installing spyware, thinking it's "just a free, fun screensaver."

Any self-respecting techie worth his weight in memory sticks and processors isn't going to LET himself get sucked into this worthless "technology." The only people this is going to appeal to, are the ones who think they're riding "the crest" of technology, but who are in reality about 2 or 3 years behind the curve.

Let the geeks and nerds band together, and let the rest of the yuppies fend for themselves and wonder why their bank accounts are suddenly missing $40,000.

Kaze22 · 10th May 2006, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawg218

let the rest of the yuppies fend for themselves and wonder why their bank accounts are suddenly missing $40,000.

Hey where's my 40 grand, oh well I gotta drive Daisy to her Tennis lessons in my new Aston Martin. I'll get back to my cool torrented flicks later

Why wasn't I born a Yuppy?

bloodcar · 10th May 2006, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaze22

I own thousands of films

Unless you're very, very rich, I'm calling this BS.

Kaze22 · 10th May 2006, 00:09

I buy films in China at 1.50 a pop. Move to China for year and see how many you start owning. I know a hand full of people in China who own even more DVDs then me.

bloodcar · 10th May 2006, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaze22

I buy films in China at 1.50 a pop.

Sure you do. Talk is cheap. Pictures are proof.

Kaze22 · 10th May 2006, 00:12

I'll take a photo a few of my DVD bags if you want but, it's just gonna make you look stupid. I'll assume you've never been anywhere near Asia, owning a thousand disks in PRC is nothing to brag about.

ArsoN · 10th May 2006, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaze22

I'll take a photo a few of my DVD bags if you want but, it's just gonna make you look stupid.

The anticipation is killing me.

Kaze22 · 10th May 2006, 00:26

Wait I'll post the pics, but I can't get my pics off the phone camera. But I guarantee I'll post some just to shut bloodcar up. I'll see if I can find a digital camera lying around.

9th May 2006, 14:48	#1
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	Warner first to distribute via BitTorrent http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05...te_bittorrent/

9th May 2006, 15:02	#2
quack \o/ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: England Posts: 5,222	I read that the films will be the same price as a DVD. I doubt they'll be in the 4GB+ filesize (maybe they will be, dunno yet), so they'd have to be compressed. Then there's the question of DRM. Where's the incentive to buy, instead of stealing it for free, or actually buying the DVD? __________________ Denying Rights to Music lovers. Denying Rights to Movie lovers.

9th May 2006, 15:23	#3
specofdust Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Aberdeen, UK, EU Posts: 7,622	Not criticising bit here, but why does warner think we should care? Why on earth would an enduser want to use Bit Torrent for something they're paying for? This is just basicly them trying to appear young hip and cool, and in actuality all they're doing is offloading costs to the end-user, and probably charging just as much or more for the products. That business model may work on the unempowered folks, but the ones who actually already know what Bit Torrent is, and know how to use it, well, good luck convincing them to start paying £18 a movie and still having to near max their upload. __________________ Like marmite, only no-one hates it Mmm bop!

9th May 2006, 15:57	#4
Lazarus Dark Supermodder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: US Memphis, TN Posts: 292	agreed, if i'm payin they should set up there own servers so I can download them direct. what about when not as many people are sharing, then my download is slow and I'm not paying for that if its quicker to go down to walmart and buy the nondrm'd dvd. But think about it, they may use this to track your usage. meaning you MUST share in order to watch and they track every time you use the file. And what if your hard drive crashes, or the file gets corrupted or you move all your files to a new comp, etc, etc. Ten years from now I will still own my dvd's, but will warnerr bros still be supporting my downloaded vids? or will they be broken when the next big thing makes this service obsolete? I say all this assuming i tried to be legal and not crack the drm. for me, dvd's are just easier. I will only be interested in downloading movies/shows on the following conditions: 1. its cheaper. they don't have to produce physical media, packaging or ship them so costs are reduced therefore i will not pay the same price as i would for physical media. 2. 1080p. thats what my soon to be aquired westinghouse lcd displays so if i'm not buyin a dvd thats what i want. If i buy a next gen pc drive, it will be for blurays potential 200gb writable discs for archiving, I don't plan to buy blu ray movies because i believe downloading is the future. 3. nondestructive, noninvasive, nonrestrictive drm. I understand the need to fight piracy, but I am NOT a pirate i am a customer! I will allow drm only if it is obvious in its activities, has very low system resource usage, and allows me to do whatever i want with my files, ie. move them around my network, move them to portable devices, watch them on any monitor, etc. And i doubt this service will meet any of those. so it is useless to me. __________________ My gun kata is greater than your kung fu.

9th May 2006, 20:49	#6
specofdust Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Aberdeen, UK, EU Posts: 7,622	Wow, for once...I actually agree with you Kaze22. The $1.50 approach would work wonders. The cock-up that Time Warner made when they started that was stating that the Chinese pirated so much, that they had nothing to lose, so might as well try the $1.50 thing. This has lead to the basic impression that if people pirate more, they'll eventually get the $1.50 DVD's. I'm not sure if they're right, I doubt they are, but I'd love to see a day when media cost $1.50. __________________ Like marmite, only no-one hates it Mmm bop!

9th May 2006, 20:35	#5
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	Here's what Warner can do, lower DVD prices WORLD WIDE to equal that of China's prices (1.50/DVD) In one day you will see the end of BitTorrent movie downloads. Who wants to wait hours for some low quality movie that you can only watch on your PC when you can buy the film and watch it over and over for 1.50. This actually works in China, the average Chinese citizen would rather purchase a film then download it. Of course this would mean the end of North American movie rental industry. But it's the only way, as proven in China if you lower the prices low enough people will choose to buy as appose to download which is always a hassle.

9th May 2006, 20:55	#7
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	On another note 1.50 media would mean the end of domestric media production as all disk manufacturing, jewel case creation, disk printing, etc etc will all be moved over seas due to lower cost for labor and raw material. All manufacturing will move to places like Malaysia, China, India and etc. This will mean the loss of hundredth of thousands of jobs for you guys. It would also bring about the end of the movie rental industry, another hundred thousand jobs lost for you guys. After massive unemployment in several related media sectors, you will see 1.50 DVDs. The question is can you handle the aftershock of cheap media.

9th May 2006, 20:57	#8
bloodcar Mod Master Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mentor, OH Posts: 2,133	I don't mind paying $20 for a DVD but I'm only going to spend $20 on a movie that's actually worth watching. __________________ <+DougEdey> you getting PGR4 mitmit? <mitmit> not me, Geoff is probably wanking like a lepper at the thought of it though

9th May 2006, 22:28	#10
Da_BaCoN -__¿HuH?___- Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,200	I just don't see the logic in this scheme at all. As everyone else has said - why pay the same price when you could just hop down to the store and buy a "hard" copy of it for the same price? Plus.... just think about it. The movies are going to be distributed via BitTorrent - a program people use to massively pirate anything. So someone is interested in buying one of Warner's movies... they get BitTorrent and look into it and then also find they can just download the movie (illegally) for free vs $20. By using BitTorrent, they're basically (indirectly) going to just be telling everyone how to pirate stuff. Plus, say there were "bonusses" for buying the movie via BT. Well, one semi-competent person buys it, then just rehosts it for other BT to download for free. In summary, this plan makes negative sense. We are all more ignorant for having tried to figure out Time Warner's logic in it. __________________ /me baaaaarfs all over the thread -------------------------------------

9th May 2006, 23:52	#12
Nova Modder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marietta, Ohio Posts: 53	well, one guy says he read somewhere they will be the same price.... almost every post has hinged on an unofficial tidbit. i think warner should use dedicated server, ide like to see the set up, such as minimum uploading and such. what if i want to play source, and not upload so i have a decent ping? what about a refund to my paypal if i upload more than required? i see no advantage to just downloading the iso and burning it to a DVD...

9th May 2006, 23:52	#13
dawg218 What's a Dremel? Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Stateside Posts: 7	One thing I've noticed is that everyone is worried about jobs being shuffled overseas, where it's cheaper to mass-produce things. Sure, it might hurt us now, but that's kinda how the global economy works. Eventually it's gonna be cheaper to just "outsource" jobs in India to the States... whether it happens in 5 years or 5 decades, it's going to happen, we just don't know when. As far as this novel concept of Warner trying to appear "hip" and "cool" by using BitTorrent, let's be honest... the only people who are going to be dumb enough to use this new "service" are the yuppies who think that just because they've JUST NOW discovered the joys of BitTorrent, they're going to "stick it to the man" by torrenting movies that are coming directly from Warner's servers. Of course, there will be screens popping up saying "By clicking 'yes,' you agree to pay Warner XX dollars for the priviledge of watching this movie." The ones who click "Yes" are the same ones who click through 40 pages of warning screens when installing spyware, thinking it's "just a free, fun screensaver." Any self-respecting techie worth his weight in memory sticks and processors isn't going to LET himself get sucked into this worthless "technology." The only people this is going to appeal to, are the ones who think they're riding "the crest" of technology, but who are in reality about 2 or 3 years behind the curve. Let the geeks and nerds band together, and let the rest of the yuppies fend for themselves and wonder why their bank accounts are suddenly missing $40,000.

10th May 2006, 00:09	#16
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	I buy films in China at 1.50 a pop. Move to China for year and see how many you start owning. I know a hand full of people in China who own even more DVDs then me.

10th May 2006, 00:12	#18
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	I'll take a photo a few of my DVD bags if you want but, it's just gonna make you look stupid. I'll assume you've never been anywhere near Asia, owning a thousand disks in PRC is nothing to brag about.

10th May 2006, 00:26	#20
Kaze22 Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Earth Posts: 419	Wait I'll post the pics, but I can't get my pics off the phone camera. But I guarantee I'll post some just to shut bloodcar up. I'll see if I can find a digital camera lying around.