HD-DVD will now implement region coding - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 30th May 2006, 11:42

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05...region_coding/

Lazlow · 30th May 2006, 11:47

Oops. This may have killed HD-DVD - it will at least dent its reputation.

Bindibadgi · 30th May 2006, 11:51

Pff it'll end up like DVD: RPC1 firmware everywhere.

mmorgue · 30th May 2006, 12:21

I'm hoping it seals their fate - i cant see them lasting much longert han 3-4 years. I think solid state memory devices like 50gig+ key fobs will be the medium of choice.

mclean007 · 30th May 2006, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmorgue

I'm hoping it seals their fate - i cant see them lasting much longert han 3-4 years. I think solid state memory devices like 50gig+ key fobs will be the medium of choice.

Not for mass distribution of movies mate - way too expensive. I reckon, with internet speeds ramping up and the shift towards HDPCs, home media servers etc., physical packaging is probably on the way out. As the market for digital distribution of movies matures, and as consumer confidence grows and the movie studios grow to trust it, it will become clear that that is the sensible way forward.

Cthippo · 30th May 2006, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclean007

Not for mass distribution of movies mate - way too expensive. I reckon, with internet speeds ramping up and the shift towards HDPCs, home media servers etc., physical packaging is probably on the way out. As the market for digital distribution of movies matures, and as consumer confidence grows and the movie studios grow to trust it, it will become clear that that is the sensible way forward.

It will be interesting to see them try to implement region coding for downloads. I suppose it could be done, but it would be a pain. The only saving grace in this is that Blu-Ray probably has it too considering who's pushing it.

mclean007 · 30th May 2006, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthippo

It will be interesting to see them try to implement region coding for downloads. I suppose it could be done, but it would be a pain.

Don't see why - you just IP lookup the person downloading, and serve the appropriate region's version. DRM will stop them sharing it anyway, so it will be pretty well locked down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthippo

The only saving grace in this is that Blu-Ray probably has it too considering who's pushing it.

Yeah it does - the body of the article says it has 3 regions (America and Asia lumped together) vs. HDDVD's 6. Dumb dumb dumb as far as I'm concerned. Region coding was a daft idea when it was conceived for DVD, but at least it had some form of semi-legitimate logical rationale then, in that, because cinema release dates were very different in the US vs. the UK, it could potentially have damaged the UK cinema market had people been able to buy the DVD from the US before its release in UK cinemas. Since region coding was effectively demolished for DVDs in very short order, the movie industry now appears to have taken the sensible route to minimising the impact of DVD sales on box office revenue, i.e. by bringing UK and US release dates into closer line with one another.

As such, the ONLY rationale for region coding on HD format discs is to impinge free trade, enabling studios to mark their products artificially high in different markets, by which I mean to rip off Europe, which seems to tolerate higher margins on DVD sales for some reason.

turbosatan · 30th May 2006, 14:56

I dont know why but i want to side with blu-ray

i dont know if its because it sounds cool or because i like sony stuff. (nah it cant be that or id be liking DRM)

blu ray even though it seems to be lagging behind hddvd just seems to be the better choice to me.

plus do they really think that regional encoding is ever going to stop people.

its like putting one of those tiny little padlocks that you get for suitcases onto a motorbike. yeah sure it now has a padlock on it but anyone stronger than my granma will be able to rip the thing off with no problem.

there is a dvd player available in the uk called the "pacific" dvd i cant remember the model number. 1 in 3 people in the uk owns one of these dvd players. maybe because it plays dvd svcd vcd and mp3.

for every man in the world that tries to stop people copying discs or playing them in another country and so decreasing profits. there are 10,000 of us who will break it sooner or later because i want to be able to play MY DVD/CD whenever and wherever the hell i want

mmorgue · 30th May 2006, 15:55

@mclean007

Hmm yes that's true - individual 50gig+ keyfobs would of course be ridiculous to buy each and everytime.

But i was *assuming* (yeh i know, the mother of all f**k ups) that come 3-4 years time, solid state memory devices would have dropped in price to make purchasing one a better investment.

And as some have already mentioned, you could legitimately purchase a movie over the net, download it to the key fob and "plug" it into your home hi-fi unit that can read these "Universal Memory Devices"

True, how do you stop piracey, etc - no idea..

Maybe a serial key reg'd to the provider who you bought the movie from, like Valve's HL2 -- you buy it once and provided you have your key, go back to the site and download it again since you already paid for it, etc.. who know -- I'm just thinking of a nice, Star Warsy/Star Treky future where everything is interchangable and swappable.

Yeh yeh, a load of assumptions. But the point is, i personally can't see how media like easily scratchable, platic discs that need to constantly "spin" in a clunky mechanical device to be read will be the "way forward".

yahooadam · 30th May 2006, 16:13

lol

it will probably be hacked like DVD to become region free

DVD players all seem to have region free functionality in them, all you need is the appropriate guide to unlocking them

Cobalt · 30th May 2006, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclean007

As such, the ONLY rationale for region coding on HD format discs is to impinge free trade, enabling studios to mark their products artificially high in different markets, by which I mean to rip off Europe, which seems to tolerate higher margins on DVD sales for some reason.

Eurpoe doesn't have a greater tolerence but we've always had huge markups forced on us by the studios becaquse they can get away with it. Who's going to stop them?

Lazarus Dark · 30th May 2006, 17:50

a big dent to hddvd i think. I could care less about most foriegn films, in fact i don't think i own any except a few uk ones like shaun of the dead- actually thats probably the only one.

but bluray puts US and japan together, and i have a large collection of anime and some japanese liveaction films. anime continues to get more popular every year. for the US market this will create a significant market advantage as most anime fans will choose bluray so they can get direct from japan discs. Half the people i know have region-free dvd players already but hddvd and bluray players are "supposed" to be much harder to crack (so it may take a couple more months

)

yea for 200GB capable bluray
bluray ftwin

yahooadam · 30th May 2006, 17:58

couple more months, lol more like another 10 mins

didnt somone crack sony's latest copy protection in 1 day

wasnt that dvd decrypter actually, thats why they got shut down

EQC · 30th May 2006, 21:09

My thought on the subject: To a degree, region coding is "justified" -- but only in a temporary sense.

Yes, it's kindof stupid to start selling a movie in the US in January, but wait until 6 months later to sell it in Japan...but in a sense, that's understandable since you want to be able to do all your marketing in each country around the time of debut. So, for that sort of situation, Region Coding would make sense -- to make sure folks in Japan aren't getting US versions ahead of schedule and ruining the big debut. (countries here chosen arbitrarily)

However, once the movie is available in both markets, or all markets, then the region coding becomes just plain mean -- basically, it means that if they put a couple extra features on the DVD in one country, then folks in other countries can't get them. This is especially a problem, to me, with films that started in a foreign language -- whether I speak that language or not, it's sometimes nicer to watch in the native language with English subtitles, rather than having to listen to terrible voice-overs. Many of the DVD's that come out in the US (specifically, I'm talking about a few cartoon movies from Japan's Studio Ghibli) do away with the Japanese language track and only offer dubbed-over english audio...and much of it is pretty lousily done, in my opinion, and much of the japanese cultural elements are lost. The US releases are also often converted to 4:3 rather than keeping the original widescreen. Trying to find a version that is playable in the US and hasn't been ruined by the US marketting geniuses is often difficult.

So, for reasons, why is it not possible for these movie companies to create a temporary-only region encoding, so that once a movie is available everywhere, folks can get the version they want? HD-DVD players plug into the internet anyway -- wouldn't be too hard to force them to obey an internet clock/calendar. And if a few folks are willing to tamper with the date their player thinks it is, they'd be willing to find a way around region encoding anyway....so nobody would be losing anything.

specofdust · 30th May 2006, 21:25

Region coding + consumer desire = piracy

That's pretty much it. Oh, I guess I should say I'm glad there'll be lots of snazzy geeks working away on these things the second its possible to work away on them, and any barriers will be overwritten within months. But, mostly just the first thing.

Cthippo · 30th May 2006, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Eurpoe doesn't have a greater tolerence but we've always had huge markups forced on us by the studios becaquse they can get away with it. Who's going to stop them?

Isn't this somthing the EU could get involved in? I mean, if they can put the smackdown on MS, why can't they do somthing about getting abused by movie studios?

specofdust · 30th May 2006, 22:00

The EU is slow, and lumbering, and rarely does usefull things like the MS thing. In the past they've resisted lobbying from the MPAA/RIAA, but if they were to try and actually force prices down, and region coding off, on an EU wide basis, I don't think they'd manage it. The MPAA and RIAA would just buy lots of the MEP's.

DXR_13KE · 31st May 2006, 01:28

the EU is uterly usless unless for giving money to politicians to develop something and they end up using it on crap for them selfs and putting it on swiss banks.

the EU is also good to prevent you from making to much of something, like milk in Azores, and make you pay a fine for the extra you made even if you want to give it away free to poor countries.

as for the region coding....that is a realy bad ideia....and will get cracked anyway...and the one who will get screwed is the simple noob joe....anyway i will paciently wait for the victor of the next format war, and i hope sony gets its ass kicked and served on a platter.

yahooadam · 31st May 2006, 02:05

id rather have the greater storage space

BD will be good for backups ...

who has a 10gb hdd ....

eddtox · 31st May 2006, 10:57

Region coding? Waste of time and more hassle for the consumer! How hard can it be to launch the film everywhere at the same time? Not only do people in the EU have to pay more, they also have to wait longer. Is it just me, or is everyone trying to screw us? I'm thinking I could just buy a US player off e-bay and get US discs. Or just scrap the whole thing and watch films in the cinema - at least that's not such a rip-off.

- ed out

30th May 2006, 11:42	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	HD-DVD will now implement region coding http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/05...region_coding/

30th May 2006, 11:47	#2
Lazlow I have a dremel. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Lincoln, UK Posts: 1,464	Oops. This may have killed HD-DVD - it will at least dent its reputation. __________________ Logs: Red Nineteen\|Pink PC Links: slickhouse.com\|Free file upload

30th May 2006, 11:51	#3
Bindibadgi Richard Swinburne bit-tech Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Omnipwntent Posts: 28,263	Pff it'll end up like DVD: RPC1 firmware everywhere. __________________ Made you look, made you stare, made you clicked this in your underwear! Den of Geek!

30th May 2006, 14:56	#8
turbosatan Multimodder Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: uk Posts: 135	I dont know why but i want to side with blu-ray i dont know if its because it sounds cool or because i like sony stuff. (nah it cant be that or id be liking DRM) blu ray even though it seems to be lagging behind hddvd just seems to be the better choice to me. plus do they really think that regional encoding is ever going to stop people. its like putting one of those tiny little padlocks that you get for suitcases onto a motorbike. yeah sure it now has a padlock on it but anyone stronger than my granma will be able to rip the thing off with no problem. there is a dvd player available in the uk called the "pacific" dvd i cant remember the model number. 1 in 3 people in the uk owns one of these dvd players. maybe because it plays dvd svcd vcd and mp3. for every man in the world that tries to stop people copying discs or playing them in another country and so decreasing profits. there are 10,000 of us who will break it sooner or later because i want to be able to play MY DVD/CD whenever and wherever the hell i want __________________ A Guide To Affiliates Affiliate Startup Help Increase Your Ebay Profits Overnight

30th May 2006, 17:50	#12
Lazarus Dark Supermodder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: US Memphis, TN Posts: 292	a big dent to hddvd i think. I could care less about most foriegn films, in fact i don't think i own any except a few uk ones like shaun of the dead- actually thats probably the only one. but bluray puts US and japan together, and i have a large collection of anime and some japanese liveaction films. anime continues to get more popular every year. for the US market this will create a significant market advantage as most anime fans will choose bluray so they can get direct from japan discs. Half the people i know have region-free dvd players already but hddvd and bluray players are "supposed" to be much harder to crack (so it may take a couple more months ) yea for 200GB capable bluray bluray ftwin __________________ My gun kata is greater than your kung fu.

30th May 2006, 12:21	#4
mmorgue Supermodder Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mos Eisley, in the bar... Posts: 378	I'm hoping it seals their fate - i cant see them lasting much longert han 3-4 years. I think solid state memory devices like 50gig+ key fobs will be the medium of choice.

30th May 2006, 15:55	#9
mmorgue Supermodder Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mos Eisley, in the bar... Posts: 378	@mclean007 Hmm yes that's true - individual 50gig+ keyfobs would of course be ridiculous to buy each and everytime. But i was assuming (yeh i know, the mother of all f**k ups) that come 3-4 years time, solid state memory devices would have dropped in price to make purchasing one a better investment. And as some have already mentioned, you could legitimately purchase a movie over the net, download it to the key fob and "plug" it into your home hi-fi unit that can read these "Universal Memory Devices" True, how do you stop piracey, etc - no idea.. Maybe a serial key reg'd to the provider who you bought the movie from, like Valve's HL2 -- you buy it once and provided you have your key, go back to the site and download it again since you already paid for it, etc.. who know -- I'm just thinking of a nice, Star Warsy/Star Treky future where everything is interchangable and swappable. Yeh yeh, a load of assumptions. But the point is, i personally can't see how media like easily scratchable, platic discs that need to constantly "spin" in a clunky mechanical device to be read will be the "way forward".

30th May 2006, 16:13	#10
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	lol it will probably be hacked like DVD to become region free DVD players all seem to have region free functionality in them, all you need is the appropriate guide to unlocking them

30th May 2006, 17:58	#13
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	couple more months, lol more like another 10 mins didnt somone crack sony's latest copy protection in 1 day wasnt that dvd decrypter actually, thats why they got shut down

30th May 2006, 21:09	#14
EQC Multimodder Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA Posts: 220	My thought on the subject: To a degree, region coding is "justified" -- but only in a temporary sense. Yes, it's kindof stupid to start selling a movie in the US in January, but wait until 6 months later to sell it in Japan...but in a sense, that's understandable since you want to be able to do all your marketing in each country around the time of debut. So, for that sort of situation, Region Coding would make sense -- to make sure folks in Japan aren't getting US versions ahead of schedule and ruining the big debut. (countries here chosen arbitrarily) However, once the movie is available in both markets, or all markets, then the region coding becomes just plain mean -- basically, it means that if they put a couple extra features on the DVD in one country, then folks in other countries can't get them. This is especially a problem, to me, with films that started in a foreign language -- whether I speak that language or not, it's sometimes nicer to watch in the native language with English subtitles, rather than having to listen to terrible voice-overs. Many of the DVD's that come out in the US (specifically, I'm talking about a few cartoon movies from Japan's Studio Ghibli) do away with the Japanese language track and only offer dubbed-over english audio...and much of it is pretty lousily done, in my opinion, and much of the japanese cultural elements are lost. The US releases are also often converted to 4:3 rather than keeping the original widescreen. Trying to find a version that is playable in the US and hasn't been ruined by the US marketting geniuses is often difficult. So, for reasons, why is it not possible for these movie companies to create a temporary-only region encoding, so that once a movie is available everywhere, folks can get the version they want? HD-DVD players plug into the internet anyway -- wouldn't be too hard to force them to obey an internet clock/calendar. And if a few folks are willing to tamper with the date their player thinks it is, they'd be willing to find a way around region encoding anyway....so nobody would be losing anything.

30th May 2006, 21:25	#15
specofdust Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Aberdeen, UK, EU Posts: 7,610	Region coding + consumer desire = piracy That's pretty much it. Oh, I guess I should say I'm glad there'll be lots of snazzy geeks working away on these things the second its possible to work away on them, and any barriers will be overwritten within months. But, mostly just the first thing. __________________ Like marmite, only no-one hates it Mmm bop!

30th May 2006, 22:00	#17
specofdust Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Aberdeen, UK, EU Posts: 7,610	The EU is slow, and lumbering, and rarely does usefull things like the MS thing. In the past they've resisted lobbying from the MPAA/RIAA, but if they were to try and actually force prices down, and region coding off, on an EU wide basis, I don't think they'd manage it. The MPAA and RIAA would just buy lots of the MEP's. __________________ Like marmite, only no-one hates it Mmm bop!

31st May 2006, 01:28	#18
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,469	the EU is uterly usless unless for giving money to politicians to develop something and they end up using it on crap for them selfs and putting it on swiss banks. the EU is also good to prevent you from making to much of something, like milk in Azores, and make you pay a fine for the extra you made even if you want to give it away free to poor countries. as for the region coding....that is a realy bad ideia....and will get cracked anyway...and the one who will get screwed is the simple noob joe....anyway i will paciently wait for the victor of the next format war, and i hope sony gets its ass kicked and served on a platter. __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

31st May 2006, 02:05	#19
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	id rather have the greater storage space BD will be good for backups ... who has a 10gb hdd ....

31st May 2006, 10:57	#20
eddtox Supermodder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Medway Posts: 345	Region coding? Waste of time and more hassle for the consumer! How hard can it be to launch the film everywhere at the same time? Not only do people in the EU have to pay more, they also have to wait longer. Is it just me, or is everyone trying to screw us? I'm thinking I could just buy a US player off e-bay and get US discs. Or just scrap the whole thing and watch films in the cinema - at least that's not such a rip-off. - ed out