BTX not dead - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 19th Jun 2006, 10:17

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/06/19/btx_not_dead/

Kipman725 · 19th Jun 2006, 10:28

BTX seems pointless as the same cooling can be achived by just flipping the ATX board...

koola · 19th Jun 2006, 10:37

BTX is a good design and is also very quiet, but at this moment it lacks support not only from AMD but a whole other number of manufacturers. Until Intel can get them to start producing in healthly quantities, then the average PC builder will just use ATX.

Firehed · 19th Jun 2006, 10:39

Quote:

However, Intel is planning a push on retail parts, which could mean that 5% of all DIY builds are BTX by the end of this year.

Didn't they say that back in 2004 or so?

Kipman - not quite. It's actually lining up the hotspots (CPU, chipsets) in such a way that a single fan can cool the lot of them by use of a thermal module. But, indeed, you can have almost the same benefit just by flipping the board.

ch424 · 19th Jun 2006, 11:05

All the bigger desktop Dells that use BTX just have one 120mm fan, and they're absolutely silent, it's brilliant. And don't Dell have 24% of the market anyway? Surely that's a pretty simple explanation for why the use of BTX is so high.

AMD can't adopt BTX because their integrated memory controllers would make routing the traces on the motherboard too complicated.

ch424

Asphix · 19th Jun 2006, 15:37

I love the BTX based dells we order for our users here at work. You can definitely tell they are superior in terms of themal management. As ch424 said, just one fan and they are blissfully silent. Teperatures are always within an acceptable range as well.

But, aside from these dell models I don tthink there are many computers out there that use it. I really wish the industry would make the switch, I personally prefer BTX over ATX for various reasons other than just thermal management.

chunky_monkey · 19th Jun 2006, 19:03

Whether it ends up being BTX or something else, it's about time they redesigned the layout of a PC. One look at an ATX board and case and you can see it's not the greatest design in the world. Funny how a new chip socket is implemented every 5 minutes but a decent change of board design (although it's more work to change whole design I know) is so slow in coming around.

Firehed · 19th Jun 2006, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphix

I love the BTX based dells we order for our users here at work. You can definitely tell they are superior in terms of themal management. As ch424 said, just one fan and they are blissfully silent. Teperatures are always within an acceptable range as well.

But, aside from these dell models I don tthink there are many computers out there that use it. I really wish the industry would make the switch, I personally prefer BTX over ATX for various reasons other than just thermal management.

All Dells that I've ever used (desktops, at least) have been super quiet. It's not just a BTX thing. Or so says my experience, anyways.

specofdust · 19th Jun 2006, 19:44

I'd agree, Dells are generally very quiet. But they suffer for that, they run hot, and things break.

glnsize · 19th Jun 2006, 22:22

Dell generally under clocks there components to increase longevity and decrease thermal output. I think the main reason AMD are so against BTX is they don't need it. They don't have the thermal problems like Intel. Not saying the FX60 doesn't get hot but Intel had to abandon the P4 b/c they couldn't cool it sufficiently. The same reason Apple switched to an x86 architecture they couldn't cool the PowerPC chips anymore.

BTX will always play second fiddle. Until either AMD or Intel release a processor that only supports BTX, but then they would run the risk of being shut out b/c of incompatibility.

yahooadam · 19th Jun 2006, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kipman725

BTX seems pointless as the same cooling can be achived by just flipping the ATX board...

yeh like the lian li cases do ... weird idea this ...

Skylined · 19th Jun 2006, 23:55

Might be that BTX has a better design, but we can still get an ATX to be more silent, even if we're OCing.
It's just a matter of thinking a little bit and getting the right stuff.

Sometimes I feel that some people focus on having their systems as cool as a fridge, even if that same system could run perfectly with 20 more C.
We can all get a silent system, within the working temperature range, with all the good cooling stuff that we can get.

zoom314 · 20th Jun 2006, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by glnsize

Dell generally under clocks there components to increase longevity and decrease thermal output. I think the main reason AMD are so against BTX is they don't need it. They don't have the thermal problems like Intel. Not saying the FX60 doesn't get hot but Intel had to abandon the P4 b/c they couldn't cool it sufficiently. The same reason Apple switched to an x86 architecture they couldn't cool the PowerPC chips anymore.

BTX will always play second fiddle. Until either AMD or Intel release a processor that only supports BTX, but then they would run the risk of being shut out b/c of incompatibility.

Yeah, But then was BTX ever alive? Maybe It's really undead?

Lazarus Dark · 20th Jun 2006, 20:38

cool bittech and dailytech should merge. they are my two home pages. teh best gamr/moddr news plus da best industry news. i can dream can't i?

anyway, atx is like ten years old. btx is as good as any next step, if you don't like it then make an open standard. otherwise, part of the reason i chose stackers for my mod is that they are convertable to btx. If asus or another top mobo maker comes out with a premium btx fullfeatured mobo, id buy it. providing by then i can get some btx waterblocks.

Sparrowhawk · 21st Jun 2006, 02:31

I agree: BTX is really a pointless venture for now, and Intel is just trying to make a big schism for marketing purposes only. (This is opposed to a truly engineering perspective which seems to be AMD's thing anymore... I mean, why break a standard?)

yahooadam · 21st Jun 2006, 08:54

the advantages of BTX are minor, so TBH you could just stick with ATX and mod it a little (like a small vent over the CPU area) and then you dont break the 99% adopted standard ...

Cthippo · 21st Jun 2006, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Dark

anyway, atx is like ten years old. btx is as good as any next step, if you don't like it then make an open standard. otherwise, part of the reason i chose stackers for my mod is that they are convertable to btx. If asus or another top mobo maker comes out with a premium btx fullfeatured mobo, id buy it. providing by then i can get some btx waterblocks.

That's just it, BTX is as good as anything, not better. With the impending demise of netburst and the general trend towards cooler running CPUs, BTX's reason for being is pretty much gone. to paraphrase the wise man, if it ain't broke, don't mess with it!

Breach · 21st Jun 2006, 09:22

Seems like Intel is trying to pull a Sony with it's own idea that it is trying to force everyone else to adopt. But as we have seen, only real use of it so far is with the newer Dell line of PCs, otherwise ATX is by far the winning design.

Colonel Sanders · 24th Jun 2006, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breach

Seems like Intel is trying to pull a Sony with it's own idea that it is trying to force everyone else to adopt. But as we have seen, only real use of it so far is with the newer Dell line of PCs, otherwise ATX is by far the winning design.

Actually, BTX lacks a next generation competitor, and it also lacks any improvements (such as HD content and increased storage capacity) over it's competitor.

The whole design of BTX just seems ironic to me. The CPU will heat up the air thats cooling the GPU and make the situation worse. I would rather see the high heat items in a PC spread out throughout the case and using multiple large, slow and quiet fans.

L J

19th Jun 2006, 10:17	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	BTX not dead http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/06/19/btx_not_dead/

19th Jun 2006, 10:28	#2
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	BTX seems pointless as the same cooling can be achived by just flipping the ATX board... __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

19th Jun 2006, 10:37	#3
koola Eat my... Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,210	BTX is a good design and is also very quiet, but at this moment it lacks support not only from AMD but a whole other number of manufacturers. Until Intel can get them to start producing in healthly quantities, then the average PC builder will just use ATX. __________________ PSN: koola-uk

19th Jun 2006, 19:03	#7
chunky_monkey Minimodder Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Plymouth, England Posts: 45	Whether it ends up being BTX or something else, it's about time they redesigned the layout of a PC. One look at an ATX board and case and you can see it's not the greatest design in the world. Funny how a new chip socket is implemented every 5 minutes but a decent change of board design (although it's more work to change whole design I know) is so slow in coming around. __________________ So many ideas, so little time.

19th Jun 2006, 19:44	#9
specofdust Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Aberdeen, UK, EU Posts: 7,607	I'd agree, Dells are generally very quiet. But they suffer for that, they run hot, and things break. __________________ Like marmite, only no-one hates it Mmm bop!

19th Jun 2006, 11:05	#5
ch424 Design Warrior Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 2,510	All the bigger desktop Dells that use BTX just have one 120mm fan, and they're absolutely silent, it's brilliant. And don't Dell have 24% of the market anyway? Surely that's a pretty simple explanation for why the use of BTX is so high. AMD can't adopt BTX because their integrated memory controllers would make routing the traces on the motherboard too complicated. ch424

19th Jun 2006, 15:37	#6
Asphix Multimodder Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 192	I love the BTX based dells we order for our users here at work. You can definitely tell they are superior in terms of themal management. As ch424 said, just one fan and they are blissfully silent. Teperatures are always within an acceptable range as well. But, aside from these dell models I don tthink there are many computers out there that use it. I really wish the industry would make the switch, I personally prefer BTX over ATX for various reasons other than just thermal management.

19th Jun 2006, 22:22	#10
glnsize Minimodder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Augusta, Ga, USA Posts: 33	Dell generally under clocks there components to increase longevity and decrease thermal output. I think the main reason AMD are so against BTX is they don't need it. They don't have the thermal problems like Intel. Not saying the FX60 doesn't get hot but Intel had to abandon the P4 b/c they couldn't cool it sufficiently. The same reason Apple switched to an x86 architecture they couldn't cool the PowerPC chips anymore. BTX will always play second fiddle. Until either AMD or Intel release a processor that only supports BTX, but then they would run the risk of being shut out b/c of incompatibility.

19th Jun 2006, 23:55	#12
Skylined I inglish is god Join Date: May 2003 Location: Uruguay Posts: 1,140	Might be that BTX has a better design, but we can still get an ATX to be more silent, even if we're OCing. It's just a matter of thinking a little bit and getting the right stuff. Sometimes I feel that some people focus on having their systems as cool as a fridge, even if that same system could run perfectly with 20 more C. We can all get a silent system, within the working temperature range, with all the good cooling stuff that we can get.

20th Jun 2006, 20:38	#14
Lazarus Dark Supermodder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: US Memphis, TN Posts: 291	cool bittech and dailytech should merge. they are my two home pages. teh best gamr/moddr news plus da best industry news. i can dream can't i? anyway, atx is like ten years old. btx is as good as any next step, if you don't like it then make an open standard. otherwise, part of the reason i chose stackers for my mod is that they are convertable to btx. If asus or another top mobo maker comes out with a premium btx fullfeatured mobo, id buy it. providing by then i can get some btx waterblocks. __________________ My gun kata is greater than your kung fu.

21st Jun 2006, 02:31	#15
Sparrowhawk Wetsander Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 545	I agree: BTX is really a pointless venture for now, and Intel is just trying to make a big schism for marketing purposes only. (This is opposed to a truly engineering perspective which seems to be AMD's thing anymore... I mean, why break a standard?)

21st Jun 2006, 08:54	#16
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	the advantages of BTX are minor, so TBH you could just stick with ATX and mod it a little (like a small vent over the CPU area) and then you dont break the 99% adopted standard ...

21st Jun 2006, 09:22	#18
Breach Supermodder Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: WA Posts: 354	Seems like Intel is trying to pull a Sony with it's own idea that it is trying to force everyone else to adopt. But as we have seen, only real use of it so far is with the newer Dell line of PCs, otherwise ATX is by far the winning design. __________________ Project :: SSC (Super Sport Computer)