RIAA in trouble over lack of evidence in P2P cases - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 12th Sep 2006, 14:20

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/09..._in_P2P_cases/

DougEdey · 12th Sep 2006, 14:24

This should never go to court. It's like saying. "You lived in the same region as a murder, so you're a murderer"

mattan · 12th Sep 2006, 15:02

This will indeed be interesting to see what happens...

DXR_13KE · 12th Sep 2006, 15:20

hmmmm....... please keep an eye on this, it will be very interesting indeed.

_DTM2000_ · 12th Sep 2006, 15:24

I so hope this gets thrown out of court and then all the other people the RIAA have wrongly fined sue them back. I'd love to see hundreds of people sue them into bankruptcy.

Firehed · 12th Sep 2006, 15:37

Good riddance. It's been too long since the courts sided with justice instead of BigCorp money.

airchie · 12th Sep 2006, 16:04

If this guy wins, would that open the way for all those who recieved threatening letters and paid up to form a class-action lawsuit against the RIAA for silly money??

I hope so, that would be lovely.

aggies11 · 12th Sep 2006, 16:27

I think the big issue here is: is the act of IP logging, tantamount to an "eye witness account".

I sure hope not, as it all sounds a bit dogy to me.

Aggies

Flibblebot · 12th Sep 2006, 16:41

Merely having an IP address on RIAA records (and just where, exactly, did they get the addresses from?) does not necessarily imply guilt. For a start, IP addresses can be spoofed, somebody could have hacked into his PC, it could have been a virus or a zombie.

Certainly, as a judge, I would require absolute, irrefutable evidence that the person being charged was absolutely, irrefutably involved in piracy, and that there was actual, physical evidence that can be verified by an independent third-party expert.

I don't know how any judgement against the RIAA would affect those that settled out of court (whether settling out of court is tantamount to admission of guilt), but it'll certainly have a bearing on any case that's already gone to court.

perplekks45 · 12th Sep 2006, 17:03

Finally someone with a chance to get back at them.
Maybe they got the IP from a hacker they paid just like they did with TorrentSpy.com...

Techno-Dann · 12th Sep 2006, 18:15

Quote:

In response, the court has asked that Paul's hard disk be turned over to them for inspection to determine whether the songs and software are on there. But given that this would amount to a rule where a hard disk can be obtained merely by an accusation, the court may look unfavourably on this.

Isn't it the RIAA that asked for the hard drive?

automagsrock · 12th Sep 2006, 20:14

This Paul guy, isn't he the millionare guy that was mentioned in the news a few months ago??

Even so, this is awesome. If this goes through then I can already smell the class-action lawsuit that will be coming against the RIAA in the months afterwards

Lord_A · 12th Sep 2006, 20:25

Best of luck to the guy, I hope it makes things more difficult for the ~~most unholy rapists on the planet~~ RIAA/etc.

However, If the court does decide to ask for his hard drive, I hope it's not the RIAA who will be examining it...

Godboy_g · 12th Sep 2006, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flibblebot

Merely having an IP address on RIAA records (and just where, exactly, did they get the addresses from?) does not necessarily imply guilt. For a start, IP addresses can be spoofed, somebody could have hacked into his PC, it could have been a virus or a zombie.

Certainly, as a judge, I would require absolute, irrefutable evidence that the person being charged was absolutely, irrefutably involved in piracy, and that there was actual, physical evidence that can be verified by an independent third-party expert.

I don't know how any judgement against the RIAA would affect those that settled out of court (whether settling out of court is tantamount to admission of guilt), but it'll certainly have a bearing on any case that's already gone to court.

You see the problem is that the Judges themselves have very little understanding on how the internet/IP addressing/spoofing/hacking actually work. I think this is the reason that so many of the RIAA lawsuits actually get to court. I remember seeing another account where a person who was sued by the RIAA moved to get the case dismissed citing lack of evidence, but the Judge denied the motion giving the reason that he doesn't understand the technology sufficiently to grant it.

yahooadam · 12th Sep 2006, 20:41

hopefully he wins

and sues the RIAA for something, shove that up their pipe-hole and smoke it

Flibblebot · 13th Sep 2006, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godboy_g

You see the problem is that the Judges themselves have very little understanding on how the internet/IP addressing/spoofing/hacking actually work. I think this is the reason that so many of the RIAA lawsuits actually get to court. I remember seeing another account where a person who was sued by the RIAA moved to get the case dismissed citing lack of evidence, but the Judge denied the motion giving the reason that he doesn't understand the technology sufficiently to grant it.

But if the judge didn't understand the technology enough to dismiss the case, how could he understand enough to proceed with the case? Doesn't make sense?

[USRF]Obiwan · 13th Sep 2006, 11:10

I see a future where people pay contribution to the artist to make a song or serie or movie. I take for example; Stargate SG1: Fans of the serie will fund the episodes. Say 2 miljon fans pay 2 dollars each to fund episode 212. thats 4 miljoen funding for the episode. How more "fans" like it and pay for it, the higher the budget becomes per episode. the fans can then download the new episode to their pc. If the fans share the episode online they are a thief of their own wallet. Except the wallet is only 2 dollar per person per episode.

the same principle goes for musical-artists or movie-artist. People can fund a songwriter or a script for a movie. I think this is the best solution for anyone and also totaly bypass any mayor "in-between business".

airchie · 13th Sep 2006, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flibblebot

But if the judge didn't understand the technology enough to dismiss the case, how could he understand enough to proceed with the case? Doesn't make sense?

That's what I was thinking.
Surely someone is still innocent until proven guilty, so the RIAA should have pay to educate the judge and the jury to the point where they understand at least some of what's talked about.

The judge not understanding the tech means he can't find someone guilty surely???

Godboy_g · 13th Sep 2006, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flibblebot

But if the judge didn't understand the technology enough to dismiss the case, how could he understand enough to proceed with the case? Doesn't make sense?

I fully agree with you, but this is the USA we're talking about. I suppose it doesn't have to make sense....LOL

If it were me and the judge said that, I'd be moving for a stay in proceedings until a judge could be found that fully understood the technology behind everything. Odds are if you find a judge like that he'd/she'd dismiss the case entirely, because he'd/she'd realize what a complete waste of time the whole thing is.

dragontail · 13th Sep 2006, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahooadam

hopefully he wins

and sues the RIAA for something, shove that up their pipe-hole and smoke it

I second that.

12th Sep 2006, 14:20	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	RIAA in trouble over lack of evidence in P2P cases http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/09..._in_P2P_cases/

12th Sep 2006, 14:24	#2
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	This should never go to court. It's like saying. "You lived in the same region as a murder, so you're a murderer" __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter

12th Sep 2006, 15:20	#4
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,464	hmmmm....... please keep an eye on this, it will be very interesting indeed. __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

12th Sep 2006, 15:37	#6
Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An hour north of Boston Posts: 12,576	Good riddance. It's been too long since the courts sided with justice instead of BigCorp money. __________________ hire me @ eric-stern.com - web developer and php ninja pics @ my smugmug :: Twitter @firehed :: blog @ firehed.net 40D\|580EXII\|285HV\|AB800\|70-200f/4LIS\|17-50f/2.8\|150f/2.8Macro\|50f/1.8 MacPro @ 8x2.8GHz, 10GB FBDDR2, 3TB HD :: MBP @ 2x2.2GHz, 4GB DDR2, 320GB HD

12th Sep 2006, 16:41	#9
Flibblebot Free from artificial flavourings Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here, right now Posts: 2,227	Merely having an IP address on RIAA records (and just where, exactly, did they get the addresses from?) does not necessarily imply guilt. For a start, IP addresses can be spoofed, somebody could have hacked into his PC, it could have been a virus or a zombie. Certainly, as a judge, I would require absolute, irrefutable evidence that the person being charged was absolutely, irrefutably involved in piracy, and that there was actual, physical evidence that can be verified by an independent third-party expert. I don't know how any judgement against the RIAA would affect those that settled out of court (whether settling out of court is tantamount to admission of guilt), but it'll certainly have a bearing on any case that's already gone to court. __________________ My uber-system: 66Mhz 486DX2, 8Mb RAM, 20Mb hard drive, 256 colour VGA adaptor (goes all the way up to 800x600!), keyboard AND serial mouse

12th Sep 2006, 15:02	#3
mattan What's a Dremel? Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 12	This will indeed be interesting to see what happens...

12th Sep 2006, 15:24	#5
_DTM2000_ Senior Super Douche Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 229	I so hope this gets thrown out of court and then all the other people the RIAA have wrongly fined sue them back. I'd love to see hundreds of people sue them into bankruptcy.

12th Sep 2006, 16:27	#8
aggies11 Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 171	I think the big issue here is: is the act of IP logging, tantamount to an "eye witness account". I sure hope not, as it all sounds a bit dogy to me. Aggies

12th Sep 2006, 17:03	#10
perplekks45 BSc... finally Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,346	Finally someone with a chance to get back at them. Maybe they got the IP from a hacker they paid just like they did with TorrentSpy.com... __________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." Blame it on Cheaps! [now a social group]

12th Sep 2006, 20:14	#12
automagsrock Hypermodder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Great Falls, Montana, US Posts: 936	This Paul guy, isn't he the millionare guy that was mentioned in the news a few months ago?? Even so, this is awesome. If this goes through then I can already smell the class-action lawsuit that will be coming against the RIAA in the months afterwards __________________ I am bored of my old sig, so here's my WoW character armory link instead PS3 network name: Myrmccheese

12th Sep 2006, 20:25	#13
Lord_A Boom baby! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 3,467	Best of luck to the guy, I hope it makes things more difficult for the ~~most unholy rapists on the planet~~ RIAA/etc. However, If the court does decide to ask for his hard drive, I hope it's not the RIAA who will be examining it... __________________ God is a trap. God is the answer when we don't know the answer. That means, when your brain is not enough big, when you don't understand, you go, "Ah, it's God, it's God." - Philippe Starck nothing to see here, move along...

12th Sep 2006, 20:41	#15
yahooadam Ultra csavarkulcs Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 1,323	hopefully he wins and sues the RIAA for something, shove that up their pipe-hole and smoke it

13th Sep 2006, 11:10	#17
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	I see a future where people pay contribution to the artist to make a song or serie or movie. I take for example; Stargate SG1: Fans of the serie will fund the episodes. Say 2 miljon fans pay 2 dollars each to fund episode 212. thats 4 miljoen funding for the episode. How more "fans" like it and pay for it, the higher the budget becomes per episode. the fans can then download the new episode to their pc. If the fans share the episode online they are a thief of their own wallet. Except the wallet is only 2 dollar per person per episode. the same principle goes for musical-artists or movie-artist. People can fund a songwriter or a script for a movie. I think this is the best solution for anyone and also totaly bypass any mayor "in-between business". __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.