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bright_ · 4th Oct 2006, 21:48

Well hello, first post, hopefully not my last!

I'm posting on a variety of forums to ask for reccomendations on my first setup. I have read through the various things on loads of sites to get a knowledge of watercooling, so i'm not an idiot

Incidentally, I'm using this in my engineering National Certificate as my Project, as it gives me a decent project and an excuse to watercool! Because it is my NC project I need to do a substantial amount of research and have to look at a variety of parts.

The setup is for an overclocked A64 3800+ X2 chip, and i am only cooling the CPU itself. Might cool other stuff in the future, but for my project it would make it too complicated

Pump- This is the only part thats decided since I've had this for a month or so, decent price and i knew it was a fairly decent pump!. Swiftech MCP350 3/8". Can anyone suggest some other pumps , say one thats a bit poor, and a couple that are decent too

Waterblock- This is one of the areas where i'm not so sure. What makes a decent waterblock, is it the design of the passthrough? Could someone explain a little about it please. I've been looking at the Alphacool NexXxos XP, and after that i'm not too sure. Pricewise up to about £40 max

Radiator - This ones plastered all over various forums rating the Thermochill PA or HE rads at the top by quite a way. What is the difference between the two, how much better are they than the BIX's and NexXxos rads? looking for a 120.2 rad, with a price limit of about £60 max

Pipework- Tygon=win? any other options I could consider, or look at as part of my project since tygon is fairly expensive

Also what size pipework should I get, 1/2" and use conversion barbs on the pump etc? no real price limit tbh, just not stupid prices. Also how much should I buy to have a spare bit, i.e plenty to make my loop and some spare.

Res - Preferably to be placed in either 1 or 2 x 5 1/2" drive bay(s) Have looked at the aquatube and RepackCooling Slot-In rev. 2 Special Edition but would prefer something cheaper . proabably max is the Repack cooling price of about £45

This is going to be properly written up so i could well be posting a work log as my case will be slightly modded at the same time. Case is an Antec SOHO full tower I believe (so confusing with the chieftecs etc) but it's definately an antec.

I'm planning on putting the Rad on top with a custom made outer layer, will proabably end up looking similar to a Koolance system but without the digital readout. The res is planned to be in the 5.25" bay(s) and then the pump will either be mounted on the floppy drive, or on the bottom of the case.

res>pump>CPU block>radiator>res

You might see this same post dotted about random forums, I'm jsut trying to get the widest range of reccomendations possible

thanks for any help

cheers,
bright_

Fozzy · 5th Oct 2006, 00:20

Ok that's alot of questions. I'll answer the one's I know.

1) You have a good pump but other good pumps are the MagII Le, DDC350 18w, MCP650/655, Ehiem pumps, Hydor L20 L30 and L35.
2) TBH It doesnt really matter how your waterblock is designed as long as it is WELL-designed. Swiftech apogee is great, the storm is about 2c better and DD blocks are generally .5-1.5c worse.
3) In your setup you wont notice a difference between the radiators you have listed. Thermochill is definately the best but you probably wont see the improvement in design without a high airflow system that would most likely be much louder than aircooling. I've used both and I like both equally. Black Ice Gt's are out and I have 2 360's that I got for the same price as one Thermochill 360. Personally it isn't worth the money for the Thermochill unless you are stuck in a situation where you need a 120mm radiator to do a 240mm radiators job. (SLI, CPU, and Chipset)
4) Use Clearflex tubeing as it is about half the price of Tygon and very nice tubeing. Tygon will bend better but you only really need it for EXTREME circumstances. In most cases clearflex will be more than fine.
5)You can get a plexiglass res for very cheap but I dont reccomend them. The repac is great and I highly reccomend it but if you're looking to save money then you could go simple with a T-line which can look pretty classy.. A Long t-line work's almost as well as a reservior and will speed up your flow but will not neccesarrily drop your temps unless you have a small pump.

Techno-Dann · 5th Oct 2006, 03:52

The Swiftech Storm will probably be the best-performing waterblock given that pump, but only by a degree or two.

For hose, Tygon is really nice, but you can get by just fine with Clearflex or even hardware-store clear nylon hose. I did my entire system, in which I watercooled the CPU, NB, video card, and MOSFETs, with a radiator on the bottom of the case and reservoir on top with six feet of tubing. For a single-block system, six feet should be more than plenty. (I was getting a bit close towards the end, but I made it.)

Fozzy · 5th Oct 2006, 07:15

Try to stay away from Hardware store tubeing. It tends to kink easily. Although it would be cheap to try as Home Depot sells rolls of 25 ft for about 5 bucks

Da_Rude_Baboon · 5th Oct 2006, 10:51

What makes a decent waterblock is a complicated affair as there are quite a lot variables. I would suggest a read of procooling.com as there will be lots of threads on block design, be warned though they can be quite unforgiving on new members.

The NexXxos XP is a great block and is comparable to the swiftech storm as can be see on the procooling review.

Tubing size is just a matter of personal preference these days so pick which ever you like. In the old days of inefficient water block design 1/2" was better but now its unnecessary but you will still get people who will preach otherwise.

The rads you have listed will probably all perform pretty much the same in your loop. The difference at most would a be a few degrees so if cost is the main factor buy the one you get the best deal on.

Tygon is amazing stuff and once you use it you will see why everyone loves it. I have not used tech flex so i can not comment on it but avoid nylon tubing like a ginger stepson as its just plain nasty to use.

Good luck with the project!

bright_ · 12th Oct 2006, 08:43

rightio, thanks for your feedback. Things are moving along nicely and i've started to put a spec together.

I'm still not 100% sure on my res. The repack ones i've seen on over-clock are a bit too expensive for me, was thinking about one of the XSPC plexi resevoirs, any thoughts?

Parts I have decided on:
Radiator - BIX GT Stealth 240 - Chose this because the price isn't bad, and the thinner profile will be useful considering it's going on top of my case. Ideas on how to mount this on top of my case would also be good.
CPU Block - NexXxos XP - question, the light version or the HP one? seems to be a fair few versions of it!
Pump - as said, I have the Swiftech MCP350. Should this cope without modding it? It only needs to cool a clocked 3800 X2.
Tubing - 3/8" tygon as it seems to be the best choice by far.
Additive - 5% Zerex ofc.
Fans - heres where i'm not sure, I want it quieter, it's the main reason for w/c this rig. Now i don't expect silent (i use a raptor!) but what would be the best option for fans.

At the same time I'm thinking of doing a mild mod to my Case, changing the side window as the current window has wierd fins that just don't look right to me. Also thinking of putting a grill on the front door. Not 100% sure.

Any thoughts on the current spec and such.

Can anyone reccomend me a program to get a decent layout sketch started etc, i'm sure i remember hearing of one on here but can't find it now.

Da_Rude_Baboon · 12th Oct 2006, 09:58

Looks good to me.

What type of connectors are you using? If your using barb's then go for 1/2". It sounds daft but the ID of a 1/2" barb is the same as your 3/8" tubing so it keeps the bore consistent through out your loop. To get the ends of the tubing over the barbs you will need to immerse them into boiling water then squeeze them over. Its a really tight fit but that helps keep it water tight and secure.

For fans, i would go for papst. Great quality and low noise.

The drawing program your after is google sketchup.

bright_ · 13th Oct 2006, 13:27

Cheers again.

So I'd use 3/8" barbs and 1/2" tubing?

Quick question, although it's hardware rather than cooling. I've just bought an Asus A8N-SLi Deluxe mobo second hand cheap. It's had the finickity fan replaced with a Zalman HS (although it doesn't seem to sit right at the moment). My current Motherboard is a Abit AN8-Ultra. Should I switch to the Asus, or use it towards building my brother computer (brithday/christmas pressie for him)

Techno-Dann · 13th Oct 2006, 14:37

No... You want to use 1/2" barbs and 3/8" tubing. Tubing can stretch to fit large barbs, but it doesn't really work the other way around.

I'm not familiar with the AN8 specifically, but I believe that both boards are quite solid performers. I'd suggest keeping the AN8 at the moment, as it's currently got all your stuff in it, and your Windows install is configured to work with it.

Marci · 13th Oct 2006, 15:27

Lose the BI GT Stealth 240 and replace with Swiftech MCR220QP - same dimensions, should be cheaper, and performs better with quieter fans. YateLoon 120mm or Nexus 120mm fans are as quiet (and as good) as it gets...

bright_ · 17th Oct 2006, 10:56

okay, that does seem like a good price. Looking at the colour of the MCR220QP though, is painting it going to do it any harm in terms of it doing it's job? Should I grab one of the swiftech radboxes to mount the fans too, or go around building my own setup.
Theres so many things to work out before I go ahead.
I've just seen someone whom has removed the 2 drive bays (same case as mine) and fitted a 120.2 in the front space. gah, will have to have a look at measurements when i'm home at the weekend. Which would work better?

Edit: thought of something else to ask, are there any blocks that can work on multiple sockets, e.g 775 (conroe)+ S939 as I will likely be upgrading around April

hydro_electric_655 · 17th Oct 2006, 15:43

Front would prbably work a little better and you won't be able to drop stuff on your rad. The only thing I wouldn't paint is the rad or the copper or internals of a water block. You can paint the frame but painting the fins will insulate them more than necessary and lower performance. As for mounts you could probably make a much better mount yourself. If you mount it in the 5.5" bay you could even consider putting the rad on slides like a drive would be. And yes most water blocks will have different mounting brackets or 1 with about 1000 holes in it to mount to any mobo with any cpu and socket.

bright_ · 18th Oct 2006, 08:10

would it be worth considering the apogee for a block, as i have a swiftech pump, and will be having a swiftech rad, worth keeping it in the family maybe?

So,i'm going to be using 1/2" tubing with 3/8" barbs, is this correct before i start ordering etc

Da_Rude_Baboon · 18th Oct 2006, 09:52

If you want the apogee then go for it if it makes ordering easier. 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs.

bright_ · 18th Oct 2006, 09:56

cheers for the quick reply ^^ getting everything priced up today, and get ordering soon

btw, what do i do to convert the pump barbs from 3/8" to 1/2"?

bright_ · 24th Oct 2006, 16:27

Radiator, Res and Block have been ordered. They're on their way

4th Oct 2006, 21:48	#1
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	Custom WC Setup-Extensive research Well hello, first post, hopefully not my last! I'm posting on a variety of forums to ask for reccomendations on my first setup. I have read through the various things on loads of sites to get a knowledge of watercooling, so i'm not an idiot Incidentally, I'm using this in my engineering National Certificate as my Project, as it gives me a decent project and an excuse to watercool! Because it is my NC project I need to do a substantial amount of research and have to look at a variety of parts. The setup is for an overclocked A64 3800+ X2 chip, and i am only cooling the CPU itself. Might cool other stuff in the future, but for my project it would make it too complicated Pump- This is the only part thats decided since I've had this for a month or so, decent price and i knew it was a fairly decent pump!. Swiftech MCP350 3/8". Can anyone suggest some other pumps , say one thats a bit poor, and a couple that are decent too Waterblock- This is one of the areas where i'm not so sure. What makes a decent waterblock, is it the design of the passthrough? Could someone explain a little about it please. I've been looking at the Alphacool NexXxos XP, and after that i'm not too sure. Pricewise up to about £40 max Radiator - This ones plastered all over various forums rating the Thermochill PA or HE rads at the top by quite a way. What is the difference between the two, how much better are they than the BIX's and NexXxos rads? looking for a 120.2 rad, with a price limit of about £60 max Pipework- Tygon=win? any other options I could consider, or look at as part of my project since tygon is fairly expensive Also what size pipework should I get, 1/2" and use conversion barbs on the pump etc? no real price limit tbh, just not stupid prices. Also how much should I buy to have a spare bit, i.e plenty to make my loop and some spare. Res - Preferably to be placed in either 1 or 2 x 5 1/2" drive bay(s) Have looked at the aquatube and RepackCooling Slot-In rev. 2 Special Edition but would prefer something cheaper . proabably max is the Repack cooling price of about £45 This is going to be properly written up so i could well be posting a work log as my case will be slightly modded at the same time. Case is an Antec SOHO full tower I believe (so confusing with the chieftecs etc) but it's definately an antec. I'm planning on putting the Rad on top with a custom made outer layer, will proabably end up looking similar to a Koolance system but without the digital readout. The res is planned to be in the 5.25" bay(s) and then the pump will either be mounted on the floppy drive, or on the bottom of the case. res>pump>CPU block>radiator>res You might see this same post dotted about random forums, I'm jsut trying to get the widest range of reccomendations possible thanks for any help cheers, bright_

5th Oct 2006, 00:20	#2
Fozzy Ultramodder Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,412	Ok that's alot of questions. I'll answer the one's I know. 1) You have a good pump but other good pumps are the MagII Le, DDC350 18w, MCP650/655, Ehiem pumps, Hydor L20 L30 and L35. 2) TBH It doesnt really matter how your waterblock is designed as long as it is WELL-designed. Swiftech apogee is great, the storm is about 2c better and DD blocks are generally .5-1.5c worse. 3) In your setup you wont notice a difference between the radiators you have listed. Thermochill is definately the best but you probably wont see the improvement in design without a high airflow system that would most likely be much louder than aircooling. I've used both and I like both equally. Black Ice Gt's are out and I have 2 360's that I got for the same price as one Thermochill 360. Personally it isn't worth the money for the Thermochill unless you are stuck in a situation where you need a 120mm radiator to do a 240mm radiators job. (SLI, CPU, and Chipset) 4) Use Clearflex tubeing as it is about half the price of Tygon and very nice tubeing. Tygon will bend better but you only really need it for EXTREME circumstances. In most cases clearflex will be more than fine. 5)You can get a plexiglass res for very cheap but I dont reccomend them. The repac is great and I highly reccomend it but if you're looking to save money then you could go simple with a T-line which can look pretty classy.. A Long t-line work's almost as well as a reservior and will speed up your flow but will not neccesarrily drop your temps unless you have a small pump. __________________ Sponsors: http://www.koolance.com/images/homeimage01.jpg http://www.dangerden.com/templates/r...eader-wide.jpg http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...age00001-2.jpg

5th Oct 2006, 07:15	#4
Fozzy Ultramodder Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 1,412	Try to stay away from Hardware store tubeing. It tends to kink easily. Although it would be cheap to try as Home Depot sells rolls of 25 ft for about 5 bucks __________________ Sponsors: http://www.koolance.com/images/homeimage01.jpg http://www.dangerden.com/templates/r...eader-wide.jpg http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...age00001-2.jpg

17th Oct 2006, 10:56	#11
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	okay, that does seem like a good price. Looking at the colour of the MCR220QP though, is painting it going to do it any harm in terms of it doing it's job? Should I grab one of the swiftech radboxes to mount the fans too, or go around building my own setup. Theres so many things to work out before I go ahead. I've just seen someone whom has removed the 2 drive bays (same case as mine) and fitted a 120.2 in the front space. gah, will have to have a look at measurements when i'm home at the weekend. Which would work better? Edit: thought of something else to ask, are there any blocks that can work on multiple sockets, e.g 775 (conroe)+ S939 as I will likely be upgrading around April Last edited by bright_; 17th Oct 2006 at 12:57.

17th Oct 2006, 15:43	#12
hydro_electric_655 Dremelly Dude Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Irvine, CA, USA Posts: 1,492	Front would prbably work a little better and you won't be able to drop stuff on your rad. The only thing I wouldn't paint is the rad or the copper or internals of a water block. You can paint the frame but painting the fins will insulate them more than necessary and lower performance. As for mounts you could probably make a much better mount yourself. If you mount it in the 5.5" bay you could even consider putting the rad on slides like a drive would be. And yes most water blocks will have different mounting brackets or 1 with about 1000 holes in it to mount to any mobo with any cpu and socket. __________________ You can fix it or, you can fix it until it's broken! I'll stick with the latter! Xp Barton 2800+, Asus A7N8X Deluxe, Ati Radeon 9800XT, WD 160GB IDE, WD 120GB SATA Xaser 3, Sony Optical Drives My lightswitch knows binary 0101010101010 off on off on off on off on off on off on off

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5th Oct 2006, 03:52	#3
Techno-Dann Disgruntled kumquat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pullman WA, USA Posts: 1,672	The Swiftech Storm will probably be the best-performing waterblock given that pump, but only by a degree or two. For hose, Tygon is really nice, but you can get by just fine with Clearflex or even hardware-store clear nylon hose. I did my entire system, in which I watercooled the CPU, NB, video card, and MOSFETs, with a radiator on the bottom of the case and reservoir on top with six feet of tubing. For a single-block system, six feet should be more than plenty. (I was getting a bit close towards the end, but I made it.)

5th Oct 2006, 10:51	#5
Da_Rude_Baboon What the? Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 4,073	What makes a decent waterblock is a complicated affair as there are quite a lot variables. I would suggest a read of procooling.com as there will be lots of threads on block design, be warned though they can be quite unforgiving on new members. The NexXxos XP is a great block and is comparable to the swiftech storm as can be see on the procooling review. Tubing size is just a matter of personal preference these days so pick which ever you like. In the old days of inefficient water block design 1/2" was better but now its unnecessary but you will still get people who will preach otherwise. The rads you have listed will probably all perform pretty much the same in your loop. The difference at most would a be a few degrees so if cost is the main factor buy the one you get the best deal on. Tygon is amazing stuff and once you use it you will see why everyone loves it. I have not used tech flex so i can not comment on it but avoid nylon tubing like a ginger stepson as its just plain nasty to use. Good luck with the project!

12th Oct 2006, 08:43	#6
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	rightio, thanks for your feedback. Things are moving along nicely and i've started to put a spec together. I'm still not 100% sure on my res. The repack ones i've seen on over-clock are a bit too expensive for me, was thinking about one of the XSPC plexi resevoirs, any thoughts? Parts I have decided on: Radiator - BIX GT Stealth 240 - Chose this because the price isn't bad, and the thinner profile will be useful considering it's going on top of my case. Ideas on how to mount this on top of my case would also be good. CPU Block - NexXxos XP - question, the light version or the HP one? seems to be a fair few versions of it! Pump - as said, I have the Swiftech MCP350. Should this cope without modding it? It only needs to cool a clocked 3800 X2. Tubing - 3/8" tygon as it seems to be the best choice by far. Additive - 5% Zerex ofc. Fans - heres where i'm not sure, I want it quieter, it's the main reason for w/c this rig. Now i don't expect silent (i use a raptor!) but what would be the best option for fans. At the same time I'm thinking of doing a mild mod to my Case, changing the side window as the current window has wierd fins that just don't look right to me. Also thinking of putting a grill on the front door. Not 100% sure. Any thoughts on the current spec and such. Can anyone reccomend me a program to get a decent layout sketch started etc, i'm sure i remember hearing of one on here but can't find it now.

12th Oct 2006, 09:58	#7
Da_Rude_Baboon What the? Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 4,073	Looks good to me. What type of connectors are you using? If your using barb's then go for 1/2". It sounds daft but the ID of a 1/2" barb is the same as your 3/8" tubing so it keeps the bore consistent through out your loop. To get the ends of the tubing over the barbs you will need to immerse them into boiling water then squeeze them over. Its a really tight fit but that helps keep it water tight and secure. For fans, i would go for papst. Great quality and low noise. The drawing program your after is google sketchup.

13th Oct 2006, 13:27	#8
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	Cheers again. So I'd use 3/8" barbs and 1/2" tubing? Quick question, although it's hardware rather than cooling. I've just bought an Asus A8N-SLi Deluxe mobo second hand cheap. It's had the finickity fan replaced with a Zalman HS (although it doesn't seem to sit right at the moment). My current Motherboard is a Abit AN8-Ultra. Should I switch to the Asus, or use it towards building my brother computer (brithday/christmas pressie for him)

13th Oct 2006, 14:37	#9
Techno-Dann Disgruntled kumquat Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pullman WA, USA Posts: 1,672	No... You want to use 1/2" barbs and 3/8" tubing. Tubing can stretch to fit large barbs, but it doesn't really work the other way around. I'm not familiar with the AN8 specifically, but I believe that both boards are quite solid performers. I'd suggest keeping the AN8 at the moment, as it's currently got all your stuff in it, and your Windows install is configured to work with it.

13th Oct 2006, 15:27	#10
Marci Ex-O-CuK / ThermoChill Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire Posts: 227	Lose the BI GT Stealth 240 and replace with Swiftech MCR220QP - same dimensions, should be cheaper, and performs better with quieter fans. YateLoon 120mm or Nexus 120mm fans are as quiet (and as good) as it gets...

18th Oct 2006, 08:10	#13
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	would it be worth considering the apogee for a block, as i have a swiftech pump, and will be having a swiftech rad, worth keeping it in the family maybe? So,i'm going to be using 1/2" tubing with 3/8" barbs, is this correct before i start ordering etc Last edited by bright_; 18th Oct 2006 at 08:58.

18th Oct 2006, 09:52	#14
Da_Rude_Baboon What the? Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 4,073	If you want the apogee then go for it if it makes ordering easier. 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs.

18th Oct 2006, 09:56	#15
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	cheers for the quick reply ^^ getting everything priced up today, and get ordering soon btw, what do i do to convert the pump barbs from 3/8" to 1/2"? Last edited by bright_; 18th Oct 2006 at 10:12.

24th Oct 2006, 16:27	#16
bright_ Minimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 37	Radiator, Res and Block have been ordered. They're on their way