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Cptn-Inafinus · 14th Aug 2007, 18:09

I am currently delving quite deep into the world of Clustering and really just teaching my self some basic stuff.

My school has just recently upgraded all of its pc's from our previous dell Optiplex GX260's too some new fangled flat screen crap. Most of the pc's in the school go to other departments and for spare's, but i may be able to aquire some from my computing teacher because i mentioned clustering a while ago too him and he thought it would be a fun and intresting project for me too try. I would really like too try this out and i think it would be great fun too do, my only question is what the hell i could use it for.

I dont just want too use it for Folding@home (witch i would) because the pc i would like too build would be rather large and because of the sheer amount of nodes (12 i am for) it would make ALOT of noise for running just one application. I would also like too enclose mine unlike other projects witch would bring up size.

I sort of have too know soon because my dad wants a HTPC and so do i, so i have to decide witch i would rather invest in. I would rather have the Cluster but i know alot of programs wouldnt even support the use of all the nodes.

In the foreseable futre i will be setting up a large wireless network across my town with my friends, so the Cluster would be used as the main server for it. I would probably host alot of dedicate servers and websites for my friends and my familys buisness on it as well. I would also use it for everyone too use as backup.

I really appreciate your support.
Inafinus

wsurritte · 14th Aug 2007, 23:48

What are you going to use for the master node? The master node has to be MUCH more powerful than the others. That's why I canceled by clustering plans.

Cptn-Inafinus · 15th Aug 2007, 07:38

A 2.5ghz, 1gig ram and all the rest. The other nodes will be 1.7ghz (Correct me if im wrong) with 128mb ram.

I plan too in the futre upgrade all the nodes too 1gb ram, using some cheap stuff off ebay, if it even happens...

Shielder · 15th Aug 2007, 14:00

I disagree. The head node doesn't need to be much more powerful than the compute nodes. I was running a 32 node cluster until recently and all of the nodes were identical. I was using Red Hat 8 and pvm as the message passing program. I was toying with the idea of using MPICH, but decided against it for various reasons.

I would say though that 128MB is too low for any serious computing.

What OS are you thinking of using?

Cptn-Inafinus · 15th Aug 2007, 15:28

Im not really in with the Linux know how, so i think i will think of that when the time comes (if it does...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shielder

I would say though that 128MB is too low for any serious computing.

It might be 256mb, i really dont know atm. It depends witch nodes i get and wether i do get them.

Still no suggestions for what i could use it for, and wether my ideas would work

capnPedro · 15th Aug 2007, 16:10

Honestly, if you don't even know what you want to do with it, there's no point building one. You'd be better off getting an HTPC (they rock).

OK, so it's cool to be able to say "Hey, check out this Beowulf cluster in my loft!" and sure having your own cluster is sure to win over all the ladies, if you're not going to use it, then it's a waste of time and money.

(This coming from the guy who built a 6 node Beowulf cluster to generate some rainbow tables one week out of spare parts)

Flibblebot · 15th Aug 2007, 18:23

I'd side with the capn - there are no real home uses for a cluster. In the corporate world, they tend to be used to share repetative tasks (like webserving) or to provide fault tolerance (such as in the financial sector).

I can't really think of anything a normal user would need a cluster for...

Cptn-Inafinus · 15th Aug 2007, 19:22

So i would be better just building a run of the mill server for the wi-fi server, dedicated servers, and website hosting.

I doubt i would be running dedicated servers 24/7 but you never know, as for the wi-fi server and webhosting, they have too be 24/7.

I was also considering using the cluster as a large file server.

But if there isnt much point in me owning one, i dont think i will. Although i would love too have a case my size with a big opening door and all that!

capnPedro · 15th Aug 2007, 20:36

I don't see why you want a cluster to host a few sites/files. A couple of separate machines would be much better suited for this. A web server (even Apache with PHP/MySQL/CGI/etc/etc) is not very demanding. Neither is serving up a few files (Samba/ftp/sftp/etc).

I'd be more interested to know how you intend to create a city wide wifi (mesh?) infrastructure? You can't just run cables wherever you want and wireless APs don't come cheep.

Addendum: If you were thinking of just repeating one signal, forget about it. the signal loss (and interference) will be too great over that distance (especially with omni directional antennas). And the latency. Oh the latency.

Oh, and the security issues, too.

Cptn-Inafinus · 15th Aug 2007, 21:13

Oh well. I guess the question now should be, because i can should i. Rather than what can i do lol.

Well i am going too be testing several diffrent types of annttenas (some bought, some home manafactured) over the next couple of weeks. I am waiting for numbers too come in for the people who will be intrested in this so i can work out how many people would suffer from, for example: One person turns off there pc, so the two people who "leach" of their connection will be cut off. Also it is quite a small town, and it seems so far, that the majority of people intrested all live in one quite concentrated area.

As for security i plan too use Mac Filtering and WPA at the same time.

Shielder · 16th Aug 2007, 08:22

What you have to be careful of is braodcasting power. I think there is a limit to what power you can broadcast before you need to get a licence.

I would echo capnPedro. All you need for a web/file server would be Apache and a few packages for ftp Samba etc. I've got a home server that is running 24/7 doing number crunching and I use it as a file server and backup server. It is only a 400MHz Celeron.

I would load up on RAM for the Dell boxes, say 2GB at least (I'd probably set up two identical boxes for failover capability) and give them plenty of hard drive space so that you can use them as file/web servers. As for the rest, sell them on Ebay. A cluster is really only useful for High Availablility or computationally intesnive tasks. Anything else is a waste of electricity.

Cptn-Inafinus · 16th Aug 2007, 22:22

The broadcasting limit for the EU is nothing more than 20Db. And from what i have read you dont need a license for wi-fi.

Well i think i will go with my HTPC atm, then the server, because i need too make around 20 annttenas so far before i can get anything up and running of significance.

Thanks for all your help guys! Look out for my HTPC log soon!

Shielder · 17th Aug 2007, 10:21

I was actually meaning broadcasting wattage. I think there is a limit, check the OfCOM web site, that may have the limit.

14th Aug 2007, 18:09	#1
Cptn-Inafinus Supermodder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crieff, Scotland Posts: 596	What could i use a cluster for I am currently delving quite deep into the world of Clustering and really just teaching my self some basic stuff. My school has just recently upgraded all of its pc's from our previous dell Optiplex GX260's too some new fangled flat screen crap. Most of the pc's in the school go to other departments and for spare's, but i may be able to aquire some from my computing teacher because i mentioned clustering a while ago too him and he thought it would be a fun and intresting project for me too try. I would really like too try this out and i think it would be great fun too do, my only question is what the hell i could use it for. I dont just want too use it for Folding@home (witch i would) because the pc i would like too build would be rather large and because of the sheer amount of nodes (12 i am for) it would make ALOT of noise for running just one application. I would also like too enclose mine unlike other projects witch would bring up size. I sort of have too know soon because my dad wants a HTPC and so do i, so i have to decide witch i would rather invest in. I would rather have the Cluster but i know alot of programs wouldnt even support the use of all the nodes. In the foreseable futre i will be setting up a large wireless network across my town with my friends, so the Cluster would be used as the main server for it. I would probably host alot of dedicate servers and websites for my friends and my familys buisness on it as well. I would also use it for everyone too use as backup. I really appreciate your support. Inafinus __________________ Tumblr Last edited by Cptn-Inafinus; 14th Aug 2007 at 18:45.

14th Aug 2007, 23:48	#2
wsurritte Multimodder Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nixa, MO Posts: 139	What are you going to use for the master node? The master node has to be MUCH more powerful than the others. That's why I canceled by clustering plans. __________________ William Surritte, President / CEO No Limit Technologies "Quality Computer Services at an Affordable Price" wsurritte@nolimittech.net http://www.nolimittech.net/

15th Aug 2007, 07:38	#3
Cptn-Inafinus Supermodder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crieff, Scotland Posts: 596	A 2.5ghz, 1gig ram and all the rest. The other nodes will be 1.7ghz (Correct me if im wrong) with 128mb ram. I plan too in the futre upgrade all the nodes too 1gb ram, using some cheap stuff off ebay, if it even happens... __________________ Tumblr

15th Aug 2007, 14:00	#4
Shielder Live long & prosper! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northwich, UK Posts: 579	I disagree. The head node doesn't need to be much more powerful than the compute nodes. I was running a 32 node cluster until recently and all of the nodes were identical. I was using Red Hat 8 and pvm as the message passing program. I was toying with the idea of using MPICH, but decided against it for various reasons. I would say though that 128MB is too low for any serious computing. What OS are you thinking of using? __________________ Signature? What's that?

15th Aug 2007, 16:10	#6
capnPedro Hacker. Maker. Engineer. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North-East England Posts: 4,381	Honestly, if you don't even know what you want to do with it, there's no point building one. You'd be better off getting an HTPC (they rock). OK, so it's cool to be able to say "Hey, check out this Beowulf cluster in my loft!" and sure having your own cluster is sure to win over all the ladies, if you're not going to use it, then it's a waste of time and money. (This coming from the guy who built a 6 node Beowulf cluster to generate some rainbow tables one week out of spare parts) __________________ There is no better previewing system than the 'Submit Reply' button. I <3 Aquatuning & Enermax long time!

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15th Aug 2007, 18:23	#7
Flibblebot Gimp dog! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Nowhere interesting Posts: 3,563	I'd side with the capn - there are no real home uses for a cluster. In the corporate world, they tend to be used to share repetative tasks (like webserving) or to provide fault tolerance (such as in the financial sector). I can't really think of anything a normal user would need a cluster for... __________________ My uber-system: 66Mhz 486DX2, 8Mb RAM, 20Mb hard drive, 256 colour VGA adaptor (goes all the way up to 800x600!), keyboard AND serial mouse

15th Aug 2007, 19:22	#8
Cptn-Inafinus Supermodder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crieff, Scotland Posts: 596	So i would be better just building a run of the mill server for the wi-fi server, dedicated servers, and website hosting. I doubt i would be running dedicated servers 24/7 but you never know, as for the wi-fi server and webhosting, they have too be 24/7. I was also considering using the cluster as a large file server. But if there isnt much point in me owning one, i dont think i will. Although i would love too have a case my size with a big opening door and all that! __________________ Tumblr

15th Aug 2007, 20:36	#9
capnPedro Hacker. Maker. Engineer. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North-East England Posts: 4,381	I don't see why you want a cluster to host a few sites/files. A couple of separate machines would be much better suited for this. A web server (even Apache with PHP/MySQL/CGI/etc/etc) is not very demanding. Neither is serving up a few files (Samba/ftp/sftp/etc). I'd be more interested to know how you intend to create a city wide wifi (mesh?) infrastructure? You can't just run cables wherever you want and wireless APs don't come cheep. Addendum: If you were thinking of just repeating one signal, forget about it. the signal loss (and interference) will be too great over that distance (especially with omni directional antennas). And the latency. Oh the latency. Oh, and the security issues, too. __________________ There is no better previewing system than the 'Submit Reply' button. I <3 Aquatuning & Enermax long time!

15th Aug 2007, 21:13	#10
Cptn-Inafinus Supermodder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crieff, Scotland Posts: 596	Oh well. I guess the question now should be, because i can should i. Rather than what can i do lol. Well i am going too be testing several diffrent types of annttenas (some bought, some home manafactured) over the next couple of weeks. I am waiting for numbers too come in for the people who will be intrested in this so i can work out how many people would suffer from, for example: One person turns off there pc, so the two people who "leach" of their connection will be cut off. Also it is quite a small town, and it seems so far, that the majority of people intrested all live in one quite concentrated area. As for security i plan too use Mac Filtering and WPA at the same time. __________________ Tumblr

16th Aug 2007, 08:22	#11
Shielder Live long & prosper! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northwich, UK Posts: 579	What you have to be careful of is braodcasting power. I think there is a limit to what power you can broadcast before you need to get a licence. I would echo capnPedro. All you need for a web/file server would be Apache and a few packages for ftp Samba etc. I've got a home server that is running 24/7 doing number crunching and I use it as a file server and backup server. It is only a 400MHz Celeron. I would load up on RAM for the Dell boxes, say 2GB at least (I'd probably set up two identical boxes for failover capability) and give them plenty of hard drive space so that you can use them as file/web servers. As for the rest, sell them on Ebay. A cluster is really only useful for High Availablility or computationally intesnive tasks. Anything else is a waste of electricity. __________________ Signature? What's that?

16th Aug 2007, 22:22	#12
Cptn-Inafinus Supermodder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Crieff, Scotland Posts: 596	The broadcasting limit for the EU is nothing more than 20Db. And from what i have read you dont need a license for wi-fi. Well i think i will go with my HTPC atm, then the server, because i need too make around 20 annttenas so far before i can get anything up and running of significance. Thanks for all your help guys! Look out for my HTPC log soon! __________________ Tumblr

17th Aug 2007, 10:21	#13
Shielder Live long & prosper! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northwich, UK Posts: 579	I was actually meaning broadcasting wattage. I think there is a limit, check the OfCOM web site, that may have the limit.