Rant Where's it all coming from?

[boiled_elephant]

I think the benefits system's problems predate the Tory takeover. It's a huge, staggering mess of bureaucratic failure: my letters from them telling me my allowance had been stopped had sections on it telling me where pregnant mothers could get milk coupons, for instance

The Tories have reduced the amount given, but I think the penalties and monitoring mechanisms that led to me losing my allowance were already there. I'm just generally disenchanted with the idea of benefits, being on jobseeker's actually dissuaded me from getting certain kinds of work or being constructive on several occasions. I agree with childcare benefits, but that's about it; jobseekers is just far, far too easy to scam (I only lost mine because I was honest), and I gather some of the others are too.

I suspect the entire thing needs tearing down and rethinking from scratch, but I know that would cost a fortune and will never happen now.

[Canon]

Originally Posted by BRAWL

Remember what I said in the other thread Canon? Thank you for justifying that for me chap.

Thanks.

What other thread? Sorry my not giving a **** attitude just saved me another 5 minutes hassle, yay

[eddie543]

Funny to say that the tories created what is the current unemployment crisis back in thatcher's time. Went from 700,000 in 1979 to 3 million in the mid eighties and nearly always stayed above the two million mark.

Never mind the figure fiddlling such as large portions of dolies moved onto incapacity and some on DLA or income support that is what the tories are reversing today.

There's always frictional unemployment but we have had an epidemic long term unemployment. We don't care about making sure there's a sensible kind of full employment and were happy just to leave the long term unemployed without help and to fester for years or generations with alcohol abuse and financial problems at the least creeping in. Then at worst domestic violence, criminality, hard drug abuse. Cycles of poverty occur and all people do is call this portion of society and then have done with it.

People should work at an apprenticeship wage for their job seekers in corporation, government and charity. 21 hours a week for at least one claiment if in a partnership after 6 months on the dole. With four hours of job seeking help. With expenses paid for bus travel (anybus monthly pass) and a £10 payment for the 3 days work dinners. (which is more than enough outside of london and the southwest ie bring butties)

And I'm sure plenty of places are overloaded with work but don't have the stength to employ a worker they pay (obviously capped numbers so there are no horror stries where places sack the entire staff to gain free labour) for and plenty of charities are looking for volunteers and they are only a bus pass away.

I'll be back on JSA (after switching to income support as part of the dole's paternity leave policy which ahs been helpful in recent weeks as we're still adjusting to little one) in the new year so I'm just waiting for the cock up that occurs every single time my claim changes or is started anew. seriously the collection of dole P45s Ive got is ridiculous and I would min d if I was at fault.

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

Originally Posted by MrJay

Should we just bang out a few kids, 'Pass Go' and collect a free house?.

No you shouldn't. You should have kids when your in a stable point in your life and relationship when you can afford to raise them and most importantly when you really want them. You sound like a switched on sensible couple so you know that already. Having kids for a perceived financial benenfit and not because you want them just dooms them to join the circle of fail.

Originally Posted by LennyRhys

It reminds me of a friend we have who has been on disability allowance with all the trimmings for in excess of 20 years. She doesn't pay for accommodation, buys nice things, saves for holidays, goes to zumba classes... but never lifts a finger to work.

I had an acquaintance (I would never call her a friend) who did this. She had alopecia and used that as an excuse to claim incapacity benefit (as she was too embarrassed to be around strange people), while working two jobs illegally in a chip shop and as a barmaid. Her income was also supplemented by credit card fraud and low level drug dealing. Me and my mates lost our temper with her one night boasting about how much money she had and pointed out it was our money she was stealing. Her response? "Nah, it's the government money."

Originally Posted by boiled_elephant

I can't make any sense of it. Every system the government creates seems to manage to punish the legit people for using it whilst being wide open for exploitation by people with enough nerve and spare time to exploit it. **** them all, I say.

The most annoying thing b_e is that being a successful benefits cheat is a full time job. It requires an understanding of the system and requires intelligence and organisation. Imagine if that potential was applied to something productive?

IMO it has also become socially acceptable to be unemployed and living on benefits. It wasn't that long ago that the social stigma of being unemployed was so great people would pretend to go to work. The press coverage of people having an easy life on benefits and programs like Shameless glamorise the life style and people see it as a lifestyle choice.

[BRAWL]

Originally Posted by LennyRhys

Since the govt decided to reassess the benefit system, naturally my friend is screwed and is having all her allowance revoked... but - unbelieveably - she is furious and wants to get a medical certificate from her GP to show that she is "unfit to work," even though she told me herself that she would work if she could get a job.

Some people make me mad, really.

Yep, that’s ESA… 90% of claimants are failing their PCA’s and getting moved to Job Seekers. Some people need it, some people are just workshy.

Originally Posted by Cookie Monster

See what you did there

Ha, thank you… I never even noticed!

Originally Posted by boiled_elephant

This is true.

Personally, I've given up on the benefits, they're more trouble than they're worth for people actually trying to get by. I got my jobseeker's allowance suspended for four months because I failed to apply for one job they'd given me a number for (I forgot about it until five days later, when the deadline had passed for applications). This despite the fact that I'd applied for 14 other jobs in the meanwhile.

I can't make any sense of it. Every system the government creates seems to manage to punish the legit people for using it whilst being wide open for exploitation by people with enough nerve and spare time to exploit it. **** them all, I say.

Tl;DR: being on benefits turned me Tory.

edit -

+1 to this, in a perfect world this kind of guidance wouldn't be necessary, but it obviously is here :/

The DWP is a nightmare for claimants, I see it all the time and it’s awful.

I think the problem mainly resides in the systems and procedures they use. We’ve sat in my office before and done whole understandings as to how it would be so much easier in some ways than others. Problem is, theory rarely lasts 5 minutes once people get their hands on it and interpret what you mean with something very very different.

Originally Posted by Canon

What other thread? Sorry my not giving a **** attitude just saved me another 5 minutes hassle, yay

No No Canon, your “not giving a **** attitude” just reminded me why you’re a waste of time to try and have a discussion with. Now if you’ve nothing left to contribute please by all means pm me with smart-arsed remarks.