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Old 7th Apr 2012, 02:36   #41
Xavier Zepherious
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Will coolamasta log into the CC forums

seems we might have resolved a deadlock if we can get the teams to agree to a new format



Overclockers Proposal
Format:

two brackets, unlimited (straight points race), and a handicap bracket. The handicap basis point score for each team would be taken directly from their average day in the CC, last year.

If you believe it favors smaller teams a bit too much, then give each team a 50% penalty for the *increase* - sounds diabolical, but it cuts down on the advantage of the smaller teams percentage being a smaller quantity, compared to the same percentage increase, in a larger team.

(I'm not sure this is needed since the smaller teams will undoubtedly be in the handicap bracket, and the larger teams will be in the unlimited bracket.)

It's fair, it handles any problem of teams merging (like NCIX and HWC last year), and has a leveling effect on the competition.

Points:

Points in this format would be:

Unlimited bracket:
race points earned = total FAH pts.

Handicap bracket:
race points earned = total FAH pts - average days total FAH pts taken from last years CC.

Teams that are new to the CC and racing for the first time need a simple tweak to the points formula:

race points earned = total FAH pts - team daily average for the last six months.

It's important to remember in the midst of all this, that this is just a FUN race. It's not life or death -- it's more important than that! I don't need rules about EVGA having contests during the race, or any team "timing" work units so they score the most points, etc.

It's a race!

I don't care if EVGA wants to set their britches afire, and run around the park - if it helps them fold, then it's a win -- for Folding@Home. Maybe EVGA will get some time on a super computer -- Go EVGA! You time your work units, and I'll time mine.

It's a race!!

We may melt a server HD at Stanford, but that's their CC challenge!


if we can agree on this we at least get a race
we can test Zodac formula too under the handicap
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Old 7th Apr 2012, 08:16   #42
Xavier Zepherious
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I don't Know if my last post got thru

EVGA CC Capt XZ (trying to keep name short)

--------------------------
we have a proposal from overclockers

ADAK proposal
Format:

two brackets, unlimited (straight points race), and a handicap bracket. The handicap basis point score for each team would be taken directly from their average day in the CC, last year.

If you believe it favors smaller teams a bit too much, then give each team a 50% penalty for the *increase* - sounds diabolical, but it cuts down on the advantage of the smaller teams percentage being a smaller quantity, compared to the same percentage increase, in a larger team.

(I'm not sure this is needed since the smaller teams will undoubtedly be in the handicap bracket, and the larger teams will be in the unlimited bracket.)

It's fair, it handles any problem of teams merging (like NCIX and HWC last year), and has a leveling effect on the competition.

Points:

Points in this format would be:

Unlimited bracket:
race points earned = total FAH pts.

Handicap bracket:
race points earned = total FAH pts - average days total FAH pts taken from last years CC.

Teams that are new to the CC and racing for the first time need a simple tweak to the points formula:

race points earned = total FAH pts - team daily average for the last six months.

It's important to remember in the midst of all this, that this is just a FUN race. It's not life or death -- it's more important than that! I don't need rules about EVGA having contests during the race, or any team "timing" work units so they score the most points, etc.

It's a race!

I don't care if EVGA wants to set their britches afire, and run around the park - if it helps them fold, then it's a win -- for Folding@Home. Maybe EVGA will get some time on a super computer -- Go EVGA! You time your work units, and I'll time mine.

It's a race!!

We may melt a server HD at Stanford, but that's their CC challenge!


It's simple, and we need to keep it that way. You start the race here, you end the race over there, and in-between, you fold like crazy.

Keeps it simple, keeps it fun and gets LOTS of folding done.

And isn't that why we have a CC?

------------------------------------------------

We need you to respond back to us
if you are for it...we would also like you to help convince Zodac at OCN

Time is short
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Old 9th Apr 2012, 21:54   #43
Xavier Zepherious
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can someone please contact me at EVGA on the CC
Im the CC capt and we need your Captain to talk to me or Adak at OCF
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 11:31   #44
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Sorry I've not been around the last week or so, will log in and have a read today, cheers
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Old 10th Apr 2012, 21:39   #45
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If I remember correctly, the not timing units to finish at the start of the race was a Stanford requirement. If the various chimps make up say, 10% of all folding power, then that 10% could be idle for say, half a day before the challenge, then all try to return results and get new work units at the start of the challenge.

Those of us who remember our machines eating electricity for a day or two without earning any points because they can't get any work units do care if a Stanford server crashes, although newer folders might not.

The problem with rule changes is that you only find out what is wrong with them during the CC.

The proposed rules posted by Xavier Zepherious look good, except if a team in handicap scored less than last year, their score would be negative. Not that it would be a problem, it would be hilarious. I assume it is intended to be a limited time event like last year's 10 day race. The bigger teams are not used to 10 days, when it was first to 20 million points in previous years, they were finished in 4 days. (Haha).

Last edited by ArthurBuse; 10th Apr 2012 at 21:48.
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 01:11   #46
Xavier Zepherious
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I think that the rules will still be intact - like the other races - like that

we have teams suggesting going to straight PPD like crunching too
we also have suggestions to get rid of the switching to chimp names idea

fine and dandy we can compete and not complain in crunching races
but folding? do we have to fights so much to get anything


we have teams saying simpler is better

whats it gonna be like when we have 20,30m 40 teams squabbling over formula every year
we have to have a format and formula set in stone - then get the other teams into it

dual format solves most of the issues
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 15:10   #47
Xavier Zepherious
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guys.... there is a deadline of this week...so lets move on this

one deadline came and went from OCN weeks earlier
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:12   #48
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OK guys because of the time left to get something sorted for the CC I think this is the way all the captains and other teams are leaning, what are everyones views on it and I will report back?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Zepherious View Post

ADAK proposal
Format:

two brackets, unlimited (straight points race), and a handicap bracket. The handicap basis point score for each team would be taken directly from their average day in the CC, last year.

If you believe it favors smaller teams a bit too much, then give each team a 50% penalty for the *increase* - sounds diabolical, but it cuts down on the advantage of the smaller teams percentage being a smaller quantity, compared to the same percentage increase, in a larger team.

(I'm not sure this is needed since the smaller teams will undoubtedly be in the handicap bracket, and the larger teams will be in the unlimited bracket.)

It's fair, it handles any problem of teams merging (like NCIX and HWC last year), and has a leveling effect on the competition.

Points:

Points in this format would be:

Unlimited bracket:
race points earned = total FAH pts.

Handicap bracket:
race points earned = total FAH pts - average days total FAH pts taken from last years CC.

Teams that are new to the CC and racing for the first time need a simple tweak to the points formula:

race points earned = total FAH pts - team daily average for the last six months.

It's important to remember in the midst of all this, that this is just a FUN race. It's not life or death -- it's more important than that! I don't need rules about EVGA having contests during the race, or any team "timing" work units so they score the most points, etc.

It's a race!

I don't care if EVGA wants to set their britches afire, and run around the park - if it helps them fold, then it's a win -- for Folding@Home. Maybe EVGA will get some time on a super computer -- Go EVGA! You time your work units, and I'll time mine.

It's a race!!

We may melt a server HD at Stanford, but that's their CC challenge!

It's simple, and we need to keep it that way. You start the race here, you end the race over there, and in-between, you fold like crazy.

Keeps it simple, keeps it fun and gets LOTS of folding done.

And isn't that why we have a CC?

------------------------------------------------
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 22:31   #49
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looks fine to me
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Old 11th Apr 2012, 23:09   #50
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Seems OK to me. At the end of the day, I fold for the science. A bit of friendly competition will be nice, and if some members add extra computers for the duration, then those who benefit from the science will see more results come in for the duration. That can't be a bad thing, whatever the odd naysayer may try to tell us.

My folding is a little sporadic at the moment, as my best system (3930K + GTX 570) is currently not folding, and doubles as a GPU test bench. My secondary system, a Z68 system, is currently without a processor (awaiting Ivy Bridge), and I've had to hold off folding on my Llano system until the end of the month because I can't afford the extra electric until them. All 3 will be folding for the competition
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Old 12th Apr 2012, 05:11   #51
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I've just got my 2500K, GTX 560 and laptop up and running again. If I can find a half decent PSU for little money I'll have a Q8300 and GTX 260 up and running too for CC. I think my room is going to get a tad warm...
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Old 12th Apr 2012, 08:58   #52
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Got My gtx 580 and 980x ready for the challenge have we got a start date for it yet Coola m8
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Old 12th Apr 2012, 10:03   #53
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Thanks for the feedback guys, start date is looking to be the 5th May as per other years and I will confirm how long the challenge will go on for
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Old 13th Apr 2012, 22:48   #54
Xavier Zepherious
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get in contact with adak(ocf) and zodac(ocn)

we are changing things we need help if you have ideas and want to fix it contact them
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Old 14th Apr 2012, 05:09   #55
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Id ask your team captain to get in touch with ADAk

things maybe changing... we need ideas and fresh eyes

for my part I have to take a few days off.
family Medical emergency - so I can't help pull this off over the next few days

I am trying to get a another rep from EVGA into it for the short term
All I ask is everyone try to fix the chimp

with my father in the hospital - this fighting seems senseless
this bring in to focus the real goal for me saving lives -
even if it's not my fathers or someone in my family this is the real reason to have contest like this
by squabbling we are missing the real reason we do it

I hope your team backs you and me in trying to fix the chimp this year

you will still see me once and awhile this week
I'll be busy with family stuff so I can't help out

If Im not wipe tired or crabby from the family emergency I'll pop in and see how things are going and add my two cents
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 16:14   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolamasta View Post
Thanks for the feedback guys, start date is looking to be the 5th May as per other years and I will confirm how long the challenge will go on for
I'll go with the majority.

Same team name and key as last year?
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Old 19th Apr 2012, 22:14   #57
Xavier Zepherious
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Zodac and the CC forums wants everyone to chime in on whether to keep the CC names or not
all the other teams have conducted internal votes

we need to know where your team stands on this

as for the formula(s) ... versions will be offered this week

it will be some form or Categorized Chimp challenge (CCC) format
if you need to find out about it peruse the EVGA forums

http://www.evga.com/forums/fb.ashx?m=1555924
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 08:51   #58
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Going on to check now, oh what fun this is to sort this year...
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 19:05   #59
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Hi Guys, the talks about the scoring system still have not been settled as some teams aren't happy with the solution above...

Someone has come up with the idea quoted below, what do you guys think of it?

EDIT: Just put simplified version up

Quote:
Here is the format that is being proposed:

1) CC Names will be used again this year.
2) It will run for 10 days (open to debate).
3) Points system:

There will be three categories - Points, Growth and Conversion:

Points are the # of millions each team produces (120,000,000 is 120 points).
Growth is based off of last year's CC production (essentially, the handicap system we used last year).
Conversion is the amount of points made by the team by their CC user (so monkey_bollocks points/OCAU points*100).

Each category will be "normalised" as follows:
Example numbers

Team A - 120
Team B - 84
Team C - 47
Team D - 103

We take the range (max-min, which = 73). We then use this formula = (points*100/range).

So the scores become:

Team A - 164.4
Team B - 115.1
Team C - 64.4
Team D - 141.1

Finally, we subtract the lowest score (64.4) from all teams, to bring the points into a 0-100 range (0 for lowest team, 100 for highest team):

Team A = 100
Team B = 50.7
Team C = 0
Team D = 76.7

We add up the totals for each category, and the team with the most points across all three categories wins.
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Last edited by coolamasta; 24th Apr 2012 at 12:42.
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Old 24th Apr 2012, 12:45   #60
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Updated the above with a more simplified version, is everyone happy with the suggestion?

Time is getting very short now and after so many months of everyone trying to think of a solution that will suit all teams this is getting the vote from most...
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