Education [HAARP? WEATHER CONTROL?] Earth Groaning / Strange Sound Phenomenon

[specofdust]

Nexxo hasn't posted in this thread, did you perchance mean myself or Krikkit?

[Otis1337]

My bad.. yeah, was your self. you red named lot are all the same!! Kidding....

Just that it not hard for someone to do some quick read ups on such things to get the jist.

[specofdust]

Well to respond then:

Originally Posted by Otis

And nexxo I think that anyone should be able to know whats going on with haarp, not just the privaliged.

See, the problem here is that anyone can in theory, it's just that most people can not in practise. This is not about privilege, this is about being scientifically literate. Anyone who is not can not understand this, and whether you think they should be able to or not is irrelevent. They can, but not without years of learning. That is one of the unfortunate things about science, it's quite hard. In general though, if you don't understand it and someone who does tells you that something is a benign research project, you're as well to believe them - because I assure you, if the scientific world wanted you dead or under their thumb or the victim of mind control, you would be.

[Otis1337]

Thanks for going more detail for me. I have to say as well I agree with you.

[xrain]

Like Spec is saying, the real problem with HAARP is the research done there is highly specialized, with a good portion of it not very intelligible unless you are an communications engineer, or a atmospheric scientist.

In reality HAARP is very open on what they do, I mean they have live readouts of most of their instrumentation on their website, including archives of previous data.

The basic gist of what they are doing is, using a high power communications array to measure the properties of the ionosphere (Atmosphere from 70km to 1000km).

This is relevant as the ionosphere has an effect on most radio communications. Its kind of like the radio equivalent of studying weather systems in order to gain more accurate forecasts.


If you want to see a truly terrifying experiment, look up Operation Argus or Starfish Prime. They were creating artificial radiation belts around the earth using nuclear weapons. They even had Van Allen say that the tests were safe even though in reality, they had absolutely no idea what would happen.


So to me, the scientific experiments that should be watched out for are ones where they are deliberately ignoring large potential dangers. As in they know that something very bad could happen, but they completely ignore it in order to keep their experiment in a good light.

I'm not against taking risks, but you damn well better be considering all aspects of what you are doing. So as long as you are carefully documenting the danger, and are taking all reasonable precautions to make sure it doesn't happen, it is possible to be a legitimate experiment.


The place where I work we regularly have to deal with people who try to use anything they can to pick holes in what we do. In almost all of the cases what they say simply isn't true.

An example would be, we were thinking of getting a liquid oxygen plant. The activists went to the newspapers saying that the potential large release of oxygen from the plant could damage the local ecology. (They weren't referring to the dangers of a cryogenic liquid, just the fact that there would be more oxygen in the air...)

[Joey Propane]

I build antennas for a living, from HF (like HAARP) to VHF and UHF, the guy I work for designs them and we've built antennas for the British Army, MoD and some very rich Saudi's.... He knows ALOT about this stuff so i'll pick his mind tomorrow and see what he says.

[BLC]

I can't see the videos, as I'm in work, but I have certainly heard of HAARP and the many conspiracy theories surrounding it. I don't think that anyone (or at least any other layman) has done a better job of going into detail about HAARP, so I'll just leave the link here: Skeptoid episode on HAARP. This was released three and a half years ago and includes a full list of bibliographic references. This is an audio podcast, but the link contains the full written transcript; it's a bit of a read, but it's worth it.

[Tyinsar]

http://xkcd.com/966/

http://xkcd.com/258/

That is all

[Tyinsar]

ok, that is not all:

Originally Posted by Parge

I've seen a hundred similar stories like this, where some guy sensationalises something totally mundane in an attempt to find an exciting story. The History Channel cannot be taken seriously.

...

Rant

My favourite is the seemingly pervasive notion that those who came before us must in many ways have been less intelligent than us - as in: How could they have built / designed / figured out _______ (especially without outside help)? Additionally the notion that some invention was "way ahead of its time" as if those people at that time should not have been able to come up with that.

/Rant

[Sea Shadow]

Originally Posted by History channel video

3.6 million watts......
......even hurricane steering would be possible.....

I went from this to this to this

I cant stop laughing. Sorry but that is such an amazingly ridiculous claim. You do realize that the energy of a hurricane can be equated to TRILLIONS of watts. We are talking multiples of humanity's combined power output. I'm not even going to waste my time comparing 3 megawatts to terawatts.

That one claim they make should be more than enough to steer you in the right direction.

[Sloth]

Originally Posted by Sea Shadow

I went from this to this to this

I cant stop laughing. Sorry but that is such an amazingly ridiculous claim. You do realize that the energy of a hurricane can be equated to TRILLIONS of watts. We are talking multiples of humanity's combined power output. I'm not even going to waste my time comparing 3 megawatts to terawatts.

That one claim they make should be more than enough to steer you in the right direction.

It doesn't so much matter what the power of the hurricane itself can be equated to, what matters is the amount of power needed to heat a target area to a temperature high enough to create a noticable pressure difference with the surrounding area which would then guide the hurricane towards lower pressure areas. The size and pressure required would be dependant on a variety of factors, the hurricane's size being one of them.

Of course, that's still assuming you've got some magic atmospheric heating device beyond the scope of HAARP: you'd need to target lower levels of the atmosphere and still need far more power output, even if you don't need to match the hurricane watt for watt. At that point you may as well start bringing in more fantasy ideas like localized cooling of the ocean.

[Sea Shadow]

That was more or less my point. To put it in simple terms, you are not going to stop or hinder an oil tanker by tossing an inflatable skiff in front of it. The difference in power is so great that a measly 3 megawatts isn't going to do jack to the several terawatts of power that make up a hurricane.

[thehippoz]

lol this was debunked last year.. it's a bunch of pranksters making videos and posting them on youtube from different parts of the world..

the sound is right from war of the worlds and some other movie from what they found.. they didn't even bother to change the bird noise in a couple of them- talk about lazy! just shows how easily influenced people are by media

[Nexxo]

Originally Posted by specofdust

Nexxo hasn't posted in this thread, did you perchance mean myself or Krikkit?

I might as well then.

The videos are all either faked (the earth groaning videos are dubbed: notice how the (real) birdsong carries on unperturbed, which certainly would not happen if the groaning were real) or natural pehonoma (see Morning Glory for the rolling band of cloud, or cloud irridescence for those pretty rainbow-coloured ones --they are a rare phenomenon, with a spectacular field last seen in 1997 in North Yorkshire).

Thunderous sound that suddenly stops? Fighter jets breaking the sound barrier. As they approach Mach 1 they sound louder and louder, because they are starting to keep up with their own sound waves which build up to a crescendo. Then they suddenly outfly them and you get a weird, abrupt silence (at very high speeds and altitudes the sonic boom is not heard any more). A reverse effect occurs as the aircraft slows down --suddenly a thunderous rolling sound comes out of nowhere and gradually dies down as the aircraft decelerates.

Any news video involving interviews with "paranormal investigators" and eerie music soundtrack should instantly be dismissed.

[Tyinsar]

Originally Posted by Nexxo

... cloud irridescence ...

I see this often through my polarized sunglasses - they're awesome (get the brown / dark amber tint for best effect).

[G0UDG]

someone once said ignorance is bliss,theres a lot more going on we dont know about or wont accept as being what it is as human beings we are too trusting of those in positions of power

[G0UDG]

Originally Posted by xrain

Like Spec is saying, the real problem with HAARP is the research done there is highly specialized, with a good portion of it not very intelligible unless you are an communications engineer, or a atmospheric scientist.

In reality HAARP is very open on what they do, I mean they have live readouts of most of their instrumentation on their website, including archives of previous data.

The basic gist of what they are doing is, using a high power communications array to measure the properties of the ionosphere (Atmosphere from 70km to 1000km).

This is relevant as the ionosphere has an effect on most radio communications. Its kind of like the radio equivalent of studying weather systems in order to gain more accurate forecasts.


If you want to see a truly terrifying experiment, look up Operation Argus or Starfish Prime. They were creating artificial radiation belts around the earth using nuclear weapons. They even had Van Allen say that the tests were safe even though in reality, they had absolutely no idea what would happen.


So to me, the scientific experiments that should be watched out for are ones where they are deliberately ignoring large potential dangers. As in they know that something very bad could happen, but they completely ignore it in order to keep their experiment in a good light.

I'm not against taking risks, but you damn well better be considering all aspects of what you are doing. So as long as you are carefully documenting the danger, and are taking all reasonable precautions to make sure it doesn't happen, it is possible to be a legitimate experiment.


The place where I work we regularly have to deal with people who try to use anything they can to pick holes in what we do. In almost all of the cases what they say simply isn't true.

An example would be, we were thinking of getting a liquid oxygen plant. The activists went to the newspapers saying that the potential large release of oxygen from the plant could damage the local ecology. (They weren't referring to the dangers of a cryogenic liquid, just the fact that there would be more oxygen in the air...)

Thats like saying the military are open about all they do or the goverments around the planet are open about UFO'S if you believe that then your blind to reality no offence meant btw

[longweight]

Originally Posted by G0UDG

Thats like saying the military are open about all they do or the goverments around the planet are open about UFO'S if you believe that then your blind to reality no offence meant btw

Are you implying that the governments of the world are hiding UFO's from us?

[BLC]

Originally Posted by G0UDG

Thats like saying the military are open about all they do or the goverments around the planet are open about UFO'S if you believe that then your blind to reality no offence meant btw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fr...e_speculations

On that note...

[xrain]

Originally Posted by G0UDG

Thats like saying the military are open about all they do or the goverments around the planet are open about UFO'S if you believe that then your blind to reality no offence meant btw

How you got "The Military is open about all that they do" from what I said, blows my mind. You sir are a champion of reading what you want to read.

My assertion that the HAARP project is open on what they do =/= The military is open on what they do.

One of the big reasons I said what I did about HAARP is simple. Many of the researchers for HAARP come from my university. They are generally graduate students. Who in their right mind would man a secret mind-control/whatever project with a bunch of graduate students from my university I do not know.

So its interesting you are telling me I am blind to reality, when I can talk to several HAARP researchers at my university, or drive to the facility without too much difficulty.

I will agree with you, our government certainly does many secret things that it doesn't tell us about that are pretty significant. I am just saying that HAARP isn't one of them in its current form.

Here is an episode of "Conspiracy Theory" with Jesse Ventura about HAARP. If you are truly a Ham, you will notice the horrible travesties they make against radio communication. (Piezoelectric Transducers do the same thing as HF, HAARP operates at a bazillion watts or whatever number they throw out) As for the "interviews" they make, the people they interview are from Gakona.

It kinda hard to explain, they are nice people, but it takes a certain kind of person to live in a town of 216 in absolutely nowhere, Alaska.



Also when he went to HAARP and tried to get in, he didn't tell the facility he was coming at all, and so he showed up and pressed the call button. Meanwhile inside there was a dozen graduate students getting a tour of the facility. If someone came to your facility and told you "I DON'T GET INTIMIDATED, I GET ANGRY" would you let him inside your facility with a group of college students you are responsible for?

PS: Dr. Nick Begich's degree was an honorary doctorate of medicine from The Open International University for Complementary Medicines in Sri Lanka.