News Microsoft announces Surface Windows tablets

[faugusztin]

@Harlequin: there is a small issue with Apple vs MS thing - crosslicencing.

[BLC]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

Problem is though APPLE ar doing exactly that - and winning; therefore if they want to take on MS then it will get messy ; and if they dont that gives google (and samsung etc) ammo in the cases against APPLE , may even overturn the ` it looks like ours` ones.

I know, and it's one of the things that p***es me off about them: they swagger from court to court claiming that someone is ripping off their ideas, when in fact their ideas where based on the ideas of others in the first place!

A legal battle between Apple and Microsoft over the Surface would be very interesting. I can't see how Apple could come out of it without a bloody nose either; Microsoft was there at the start of the "tablet/slate" computing world all those years ago. Hell, "Tablet PC" was a term pushed by Microsoft in the first place and WinXP Tablet Edition was first seen (albeit only bundled with tablet devices) in 2002!

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by faugusztin

@Harlequin: there is a small issue with Apple vs MS thing - crosslicencing.

theres also a small issue on patenting a design - that hasnt stopped APPLE though has it...., the recent MBP design patent and sony comes to mind

[Unicorn]

Originally Posted by BLC

Have you been an Apple fanboy long, or is it a recent thing?

(That was obviously a joke!)

Aha, ISWYDT

Originally Posted by BLC

My point was more that, while Apple have undoubtedly done an awful lot to further tablets (and indeed smartphones), they haven't really done anything truly revolutionary. Long before the iPhone launched I had a touchscreen HTC smartphone - once the biggest smartphone manufacturer that you'd never heard of - and they'd been around for a long while... They weren't as "slick" as the iPhone, but they were still there.

My biggest problem with Apple is with their litigious attempts to stifle competition, and their use of software patents as a brute-force legal weapon. Attempting to get an injunction to ban the sale of the 10.1" Galaxy Tab because it has a similar form factor to the iPad really was the straw that broke the camel's back. How the hell can one company possibly claim to "own" a form factor?! Maybe I should give Stanley Kubrick or IBM a call and get them to sue all modern tablet manufacturers; after all, 2001: A Space Odyssey featured devices very similar to modern tablet computers (IBM provided computing consultancy for 2001)

If the Surface does truly start to challenge the iPad, you can almost guarantee that Apple will try and take a swipe at it one way or another. I'm betting that Microsoft would not shy from the challenge either.

I do have to agree with you on the Apple litigation though - despite being a fan of their work and generally someone who supports them both by buying their products (iPhones & peripherals, no tablets or Macs here... yet ) and by using their software and generally someone who likes the company for what it is, the massive legal assault on anyone in the industry who tries to challenge them is something that I dislike. The way they handled the entire iPhone 4 leak situation was bully behaviour, and I thought a lot less of them that day. Similarly, the fact that they've tried to claim ownership of the 10.1" tablet form factor is downright ludicrous.

I genuinely hope the Surface tablet is a success and I may even buy one in the future, because I've seen Microsoft plough inconceivable amounts of money into researching and even producing some mobile devices and their mobile device software that have and have not been a success in the past 5 years - I've mentioned before that until the iPhone came along in '07, I was rocking a WM5 PDA and LG "dumbphone" for more than a year. The Axim was the best PDA that money could buy at the time and still had a lot of limitations, but you could tell that they were trying hard. I hope this is the start of long term success in the mobile device market for Microsoft. A tablet that interfaces more easily with a Windows desktop computer is something that I'm all for. Yes, I'd still like an iPad for digital media, email, couch browsing etc and part of me even wants one just for the pretty thing that it is, but if the Microsoft tablet does all those things as well as the iPad and can interface better with my W7 desktop computers, I'm pretty sure I know which one I'll be getting.

[Paradigm Shifter]

Originally Posted by Unicorn

The Axim was the best PDA that money could buy at the time and still had a lot of limitations, but you could tell that they were trying hard.

Dell X51v?

Best. PDA. Ever.

Mine has just reached the point where it's not really usable any more - several of the buttons work 'best out of five' and it turns on and off randomly depending on how you wiggle the battery cover. But I don't think it's done badly - six years of excellent service. For all of the hate on WinMo (usually "Oh, buttons are too fiddly for fingers" - I've got large hands and never once had a problem, besides, that's what the stylus is for) I found it to be largely a stable, reasonably fast and capable OS. About the only time I ever had problems was with trying to view pictures that were >1MB, or Word documents >2MB, which would either be really, really slow, or fail with 'out of memory' errors if I had other programs running.

The directional pad on the X51v is something I wish more of these modern touchscreen phones would have. If you're reading page-by-page, scrolling isn't always accurate.

[Unicorn]

Yep, an Axim X51v. Best PDA I ever had as well, out of two X51v's - One went faulty a month after I got it and had to go back Mine is still in perfect working order. It's been treated like a child its whole life and there's hardly a mark on it. I messed it up a couple of months ago with a WM 6.5 ROM from XDA Developers - a ROM that requires an upgraded X51v to run properly. Mine has the stock 64MB of RAM, but WM 6.5 requires one with an added 64 to make 128 in total. I'm still looking for a WM 5 (Dell original) ROM to put back onto it. At the moment it's not usable at all, it just locks up after you turn it on and touch the start menu.

[Paradigm Shifter]

Originally Posted by Unicorn

Yep, an Axim X51v. Best PDA I ever had as well, out of two X51v's - One went faulty a month after I got it and had to go back Mine is still in perfect working order. It's been treated like a child its whole life and there's hardly a mark on it. I messed it up a couple of months ago with a WM 6.5 ROM from XDA Developers - a ROM that requires an upgraded X51v to run properly. Mine has the stock 64MB of RAM, but WM 6.5 requires one with an added 64 to make 128 in total. I'm still looking for a WM 5 (Dell original) ROM to put back onto it. At the moment it's not usable at all, it just locks up after you turn it on and touch the start menu.

I treated mine with care, too, but eventually things just wear out. It's had daily use as... well, a PDA and HTML/txt/doc/text PDF reader since I got it in June 2006! I did think about buying a refurbished one as it does what I want and recent smartphones tend to try to be a bit too clever for their own good and end up making things complicated in the process. I didn't realise you could upgrade the RAM...

If it wasn't for the battery cover issue, I'd still be using mine. As it is, it's sitting in a drawer waiting for me to have the time to investigate the battery cover issue more closely. After all, if I can fix it...

[Unicorn]

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter

I didn't realise you could upgrade the RAM...

It's not a "module out, module in" job like with a laptop or PC. It's soldered to the board and is a BGA chip, so it has to be sent away and have the board modified. They desolder the small chip and solder a 128 MB one in its place. There are no companies offering that service any more though. If I could get my hands on the appropriate chip I could have it replaced at a moments notice, but the difficult part is finding a 128 MB memory chip of the correct type.

[Paradigm Shifter]

Originally Posted by Unicorn

It's not a "module out, module in" job like with a laptop or PC. It's soldered to the board and is a BGA chip, so it has to be sent away and have the board modified. They desolder the small chip and solder a 128 MB one in its place. There are no companies offering that service any more though. If I could get my hands on the appropriate chip I could have it replaced at a moments notice, but the difficult part is finding a 128 MB memory chip of the correct type.

Hm. Sounds interesting. But as you said, depends on finding the right RAM chip. I'd all but given up on giving my X51v any further life, but I will have to do some looking around now...

Well, anyway, given that Dell has given up on their excellent PDA range, looks like 'Surface' is the only way to go. I'll just have to cross my fingers that the 'pro' version isn't a) too expensive and b) too power hungry. That said, if it'll last 5-7 hours with the screen on near-minimal brightness, I'll take that as OK. I'd get ~12 hours out of the X51v with extended battery, and ~6 with the normal one. It will depend on the screen resolution as well, of course - low res screens are horrible... it's one of the reasons I was enthusiastic about some of the Ultrabooks - 1920x1080 on a 13" screen? Yes, please - the 1366x768 of my Acer ultraportable is agony.

[lovemikaelataylor]

I remembered when Tim Cook said something about these combination devices. He compared them to to a fused toaster and fridge - something that is feasible but will never work as either product individually.

But this is Microsoft we're talking about. My only concern is that they will now go head to head with the very companies that support Windows 8.

[GAVI]

I think it's a great tablet, just what I've been waiting for.

"Full/Proper" OS made for touch and ink - excellent for use with OneNote another great MS product I like to use.

Battery life, the way I see it, for use doing the sorts of things people do on an iPad it could be close or maybe even better. For anything more intensive, it may have a relatively low battery life but I'd say for such things you'd likly be in a position to plug the thing in and who could complain anyway.

[Nexxo]

I don't see the Pro version outlasting or even matching the iPad in battery life, no matter what you do. The RT version, perhaps. And speaking as an owner of a 2002 Microsoft Windows tablet, a 3-hour battery life blows chunky giblets.

[impar]

Greetings!

Microsoft Surface price outed on Swedish retail website?
...
The Swedish site has the ARM-based Windows RT tablet with 32GBs of space priced at £648 ($1000) – this model is meant to be the cheaper model. However, there are explanations for the unusually high price point; for one, Sweden’s tax costs are higher for electronic devices, which means that we could be expecting to see the device at £599, which is also the price of the iPad’s higher-end model – but despite that, do you feel the price is right for Microsoft’s new tablet?

The price for the higher-end, non-ARM-based Windows 8 pro tablet is £1,500 ($2,300) for the 128GB model and £1,200 ($1,900) for the 64GB version according to Webhallen. It does feel like we’re spending a lot more just to stay in relevance with the latest applications and features, rather than for hardware and peripherals, so you could say that we could be overpaying for the experience surface will give us.

[impar]

Greetings!

No, Microsoft’s Entry-Level Surface Will Not Cost $1000

[faugusztin]

Preorder prices are sometimes crazy, especially at the opportunistic sites.

For example Nexus 7 is for preorder in one shop for €249 (correct price) and in the other for €390 (not a typo, three hundred ninety euros). That swedish shop is probably from the group like the €390 N7 guys .

[impar]

Greetings!

Microsoft Acknowledges Partners May be Harmed by Surface Tablet
By outcompeting its partners, Microsoft is endangering them

"[O]ur Surface devices will compete with products made by our OEM partners, which may affect their commitment to our platform," writes Microsoft Corp. on the fourteenth page of its annual report filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

As noted by The New York Times, the quote represents Microsoft's most forthright comment regarding the fact that the media and public has largely perceived Microsoft's first-party Windows 8 tablet as superior to rival designs from OEM partners.

[impar]

Greetings!

Acer CEO warns Microsoft to 'think twice' about its Surface plans

[fdbh96]

Originally Posted by impar

Greetings!

Acer CEO warns Microsoft to 'think twice' about its Surface plans

Thats them not being confident enough to think that they could make a better tablet. The surface is a benchmark that all the 3rd party manufacturers should be aiming to beat.

[Bokeh]

Originally Posted by fdbh96

Thats them not being confident enough to think that they could make a better tablet. The surface is a benchmark that all the 3rd party manufacturers should be aiming to beat.

Did you see the Windows tablets Acer brought to the conventions earlier this year? There wasn't anything ground breaking or even mildly exciting. The models they were showing looked like, the more moderate, Asus model rip-offs (I'm sure they aren't in reality) and this is coming from a company that wanted to get away from the lower-end market and refocus their efforts on the (near-)leading edge bracket, or so they claim.

I don't really look into laptops all that often but are Acer still a decent power in that area? The number I see friend owning has waned somewhat over the past 2 or 3 years...maybe they are just getting desperate, and hitting out against MS as it is more of a threat to them than their competitors like Asus/HP.

[impar]

Greetings!

Microsoft confirms Surface 2