Blog DOTA: Back in the saddle

[wafflesomd]

Originally Posted by wiggles

2)My main gripe with this game is that most games are effectively over by 30 mins and the game will still go on for another 20-30 mins

That goes away when you start getting into higher level games where both teams are competent. I think league is pretty bad about this compared to others. In dota, its common for a 30-10 match to turn around if the team play smart.

Originally Posted by Whindog

Great game but i do feel no tutorial or guide to basic functions like buying items and useing courier sets it back. I assume it will be in there b4 it goes f2p full release tho.

They have stated that there will be a tutorial on release. It really needs one.

[Telefonskaft]

The game is great, only kinda unbalanced hero is Ursa but he can be countered too and most of the times when someone pick Ursa it's randomed so that's good

[wafflesomd]

Originally Posted by Telefonskaft

The game is great, only kinda unbalanced hero is Ursa but he can be countered too and most of the times when someone pick Ursa it's randomed so that's good

There are so many ways to counter him that he rarely gets picked in pro play. Anyone can get a force staff and thats shuts him down pretty well. Shadow Shaman or Lion can turn people into animals for a whopping 4 seconds. I try and cast those abilities on him right after he uses activates his abilities. Keep in mind that's he is really good at taking out one person at a time so try and hit him while he's busy.

[Sloth]

Originally Posted by wafflesomd

There are so many ways to counter him that he rarely gets picked in pro play. Anyone can get a force staff and thats shuts him down pretty well. Shadow Shaman or Lion can turn people into animals for a whopping 4 seconds. I try and cast those abilities on him right after he uses activates his abilities. Keep in mind that's he is really good at taking out one person at a time so try and hit him while he's busy.

Also if you're having troubles with Ursa targeting you specifically Ghost Scepter and Eul's Scepter are both excellent items. Nothing beats an Ursa blinking in on some squishy Crystal Maiden for an easy kill and having her suddenly go immune, leaving him confused and alone.

[Elton]

DOTA 2 is a magnificent game. And to be honest, i'm spoiled by League of Legends. The problem I have? I'm too used to League now. It's a bad thing since in DOTA 2 there are no invisibility bushes, and you can deny creeps. But honestly, DOTA 2 is still one of the more balanced games and rather difficult as it just throws you in there.

That said of course, the community isn't receptive to terribad players but neither is League tbh. If I wasn't so addicted to League (well rather just interested having played a decent amount now) the transition to DOTA 2 would be pretty quick as DOTA 2 probably has better balancing than League does.

[Elton]

DOTA 2 is a magnificent game. And to be honest, i'm spoiled by League of Legends. The problem I have? I'm too used to League now. It's a bad thing since in DOTA 2 there are no invisibility bushes, and you can deny creeps. But honestly, DOTA 2 is still one of the more balanced games and rather difficult as it just throws you in there.

That said of course, the community isn't receptive to terribad players but neither is League tbh. If I wasn't so addicted to League (well rather just interested having played a decent amount now) the transition to DOTA 2 would be pretty quick as DOTA 2 probably has better balancing than League does.

[Sloth]

Originally Posted by Elton

DOTA 2 is a magnificent game. And to be honest, i'm spoiled by League of Legends. The problem I have? I'm too used to League now. It's a bad thing since in DOTA 2 there are no invisibility bushes, and you can deny creeps. But honestly, DOTA 2 is still one of the more balanced games and rather difficult as it just throws you in there.

Regarding balance, for anyone who isn't aware: Dota 2 is designed to be largely identical to the Warcraft 3 Dota mod, except running on the Source engine. All of the heroes have the same stats as in Dota 1 so there's a wealth of time and experience in testing balance.

The biggest balance selling point for Dota, imo, is the fact that (at least currently) all heroes are available for free and there are no stat changing items. Should any hero be considered overpowered all players have equal access to it without having to pay cash, points, or reach a certain level. Likewise, any other heroes such as potential counters are equally available.

There's also the Captain's Mode game mode which allows for four heroes to be banned before anyone picks, so any imbalances that slip past can be removed from play. I'm not sure if LoL has such a game made, it's been ages since I played. (the fruity looking guy with the light beam spell was new, for reference!).

[hamza_tm]

Just read through this now!

Been an avid dota player since forever, it's the only game I have ever played that is so vast and dynamic that I find it impossible to get bored of!

In case any new players are reading this, if you want to enjoy this game I highly recommend finding someone who knows what they are at and spending a few games together. Stick a post up on the gaming forum or something, it will help loads. Also people mentioning the lack of introduction or proper help, remember the game is still in beta and the tutorial section hasn't been done yet.

People worried about the abuse, tbh you just need to get to a certain skill level. Trust me once you've familiarized yourself enough and have an idea of what's going on, it is very easy to have awesome and encouraging games independent of the kind of players you are playing with. Like someone else has said, the community is fine. I haven't seen any abuse for ages tbh, people look out for each other and I've been having a great time winning or losing.

Originally Posted by Aterius Gmork

Sorry, but the DOTA community in general is the worst I have encountered, ever. If you feed people will insult you. If you get kills people will call you a kill stealer. If you support people will call you useless. It's ridiculous, really.

Sorry but that isn't the case. Sure you can get into a game with some pre-pubescent nightmare kids that won't stop chatting, but then that's what the mute system is for. If you are an absolute beginner then sure you may get abuse from frustrated teammates (I'm not condoning such behaviour at all), but mainly because DOTA is such a team-oriented game that having a bad teammate CAN result in making your own game miserable (for people that aren't very good themselves); and so I do recommend playing with people you know, at the very least spending time watching professional commentaries and reading a hero guide for one or two simple heroes and practising specific strategies against bots until you get a feel for it. A team of friends babysitting their beginner mate is fantastic fun

But like I said once you get a feel for the game it's wonderful. Once you know what is expected of your hero people won't call you out unless you actually do something woeful/unfair/wrong. I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend you watch pro commentaries so you know exactly what your hero should be doing, if you try and work out this game from experience you are doomed to failure (or at least a long, difficult road). Reading and researching this game is a massive help if you want to have fun playing anytime within the year!

Anyhow, be mature and just take simple sporadic outbursts - e.g. someone is trying to get a kill on an enemy and you come from nowhere and finish them off yourself - if he insults you out of frustration just be mature about it, people do get emotional in this game but it's just like everything else in life. Give the benefit of the doubt. If the dude goes on about it just mute and get on with the game. I really don't see the community as a reason not to play Dota, not since I started playing and definitely not now.

tl dr;
Anyone can have great fun in this game the community is fine, but make sure you do your part and read and research about this game as well as playing. Just balance your playtime and research time. Watching pro commentaries is insane fun to boot!

Aim is to get to know what you actually need to be doing at all times (an experienced partner is the best teacher). If you don't take the time to work this out correctly, you aren't going to get the most from it.

Dota is a highly intellectual game! It needs an attentive mind and a lot of thinking going on at all times.

Enjoy the game! It's easy

[Salty Wagyu]

Not played it for a while now. Most annoying thing I could remember is when you're in a lane with someone for the first few levels and they don't help out in killing creeps, except for last-hitting them so they get the gold instead. Wish something could be done about that, gold being split between whoevers in the lane for example.

[Sloth]

Originally Posted by Salty Wagyu

Not played it for a while now. Most annoying thing I could remember is when you're in a lane with someone for the first few levels and they don't help out in killing creeps, except for last-hitting them so they get the gold instead. Wish something could be done about that, gold being split between whoevers in the lane for example.

There's actually a fairly deep meta game to when to attack creeps, and who kills them, which would be ruined by that. Without getting into a deep "how to play Dota" post, it's generally a bad thing to be attacking creeps for anything but a last hit in the first place and depending on what hero each person is playing it may be better to not get last hits at all so a more item dependent lane partner gets the gold.

Just another one of the initially cryptic mechanics of the game which with a little practice becomes a deep well of strategy to add to your arsenal.

[Bogomip]

Originally Posted by Salty Wagyu

Not played it for a while now. Most annoying thing I could remember is when you're in a lane with someone for the first few levels and they don't help out in killing creeps, except for last-hitting them so they get the gold instead. Wish something could be done about that, gold being split between whoevers in the lane for example.

If you and your lane buddy attacks the creeps all the time you push your creeps onto the tower - you are too low level to do much damage to the tower and so low level it will mess you up if it hits you even once or twice. This allows the enemy to gain a bit of an xp advantage - essentially it means you are standing doing very little, or risking being in a dodgy position. Later on in the game it doesnt matter much as your hits hurt the tower and you can take a few hits from it.

You always ensure you last hit though, as you dont want to lose the gold. Always try and last hit your creeps too, in order to deny some xp and gold to your enemy

DotA is complicated

[sourdough]

I have been playing with bots for a couple of days now. The general idea of last hit, ganking, team fight, farming is easy to understand. The hard part is the items shopping. As a new player you tend to go with a template. That's all well and good if the gold is free flowing. The trouble comes when you are not doing too well and you know you can't wait for that 1k to get your item of choice but you don't have the enough knowledge of all the items in the shop do improvise a plan B. Incidentally, what items give good mana regen in mid games?

[Sloth]

If you're having a hard time it can certainly be beneficial to try for items that have smaller components, provided they're still decent items for the hero/game. Having a read through the item list in the Learn section can be pretty useful, to get a grasp on what's out there to buy. If you're having a rough game it may not always be the best idea to try saving for something expensive and constantly losing gold, even if the cheaper item is slightly inferior at least you'll have it.

When you say mid do you mean mid-game time wise or mid lane? It always depends on your hero, but if you're talking mid lane Bottle is often a good item. Since it can store runes, and is refilled when a rune is stored, it's a great source of health and mana for a mid hero who should be checking runes anway. Just note that at 600g you won't be able to buy anything else at the start of the game. For this reason it's typically advised that you get stat items with only a little bit of regen to last you until you get the money to buy the Bottle. It's counter-intuitive, but getting stats at the start will give you much better last hit and deny potential making it actually easier to get the money.

[hamza_tm]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I have been playing with bots for a couple of days now. The general idea of last hit, ganking, team fight, farming is easy to understand. The hard part is the items shopping. As a new player you tend to go with a template. That's all well and good if the gold is free flowing. The trouble comes when you are not doing too well and you know you can't wait for that 1k to get your item of choice but you don't have the enough knowledge of all the items in the shop do improvise a plan B. Incidentally, what items give good mana regen in mid games?

Problem with that kind of question is it depends so much on what hero you have, as different items do the job better for different heroes. I mean you can buy a void stone for clinkz, but what will he turn it into later on?

In simple terms, if you hit the stagnation period with not enough cash flow and you know you need something, here's some short guidance:
HP needed: Bracer
Manapool and stats needed: Null Talisman
Damage and a bit of stats buff for agi heroes: Wraith Band

Those three are the most cost effective items for the gains, the only problem is that they take up inventory slots. If you don't believe me, try any carry hero with 4 wraith bands, treads and tp scroll build. As soon as you finish farming that (at an average farming speed) you are insanely powerful at THAT point in game, but you lose out on your late game prowess as you will have to sell them to buy proper tier 4 items. Definitely a beautiful fun build though

Now, for mana regen alone, bottle at any time is good if you are good enough to effectively grab runes (know timing, position yourself well to walk past them etc). Otherwise for early-mid game, you could get a Ring of Basilius. For proper mid game, the only mana regen item you want is a void stone (to turn into euls scepter or something interesting later on) but that is hero dependent.



In general, as a beginner your plan B should always be: Doing badly? Start buying null talismans, bracers, or wraith bands. A null tali provides enough mana pool and regen and extra stats for very cheap overall, and these three items work on ANY hero amazingly well.

If you play a carry, your plan B should be: Doing badly? get Sange and Yasha. In fact works on any Str or Agi hero that does at least some physical DPS.

Gist of it is, if doing badly then you want to forget heavy items requiring massive parts and go for easy-to-build items and HP.

[Bogomip]

Originally Posted by hamza_tm

In simple terms, if you hit the stagnation period with not enough cash flow and you know you need something, here's some short guidance:
HP needed: Bracer
Manapool and stats needed: Null Talisman
Damage and a bit of stats buff for agi heroes: Wraith Band

Thats actually really good advise Not many people realise how good those items can be - 4 wraith bands and you have a rough eaglehorn equivalent in terms of agi, with some int and str thrown in.

Ive saved entire games before by just going back to basics, and you can always sell them when you are done.

[hamza_tm]

Exactly, 4 wraith bands gives you so much of everything and is so easy to build up to. Try it on Drow Ranger for a very fun mid game ownage build!

Also 5000th post there Bogomip congrats

[icemanTM]

but 4 wraith bands cant be upgraded to anything which is a bummer... so its better ito purchase 2 wraiths and straight to treads or whatever requires to survive

[hamza_tm]

Originally Posted by icemanTM

but 4 wraith bands cant be upgraded to anything which is a bummer... so its better ito purchase 2 wraiths and straight to treads or whatever requires to survive

That's why no one ever does it.

It's a superbly powerful mid game build, but it sacrifices your late game. You won't get the high tier items as fast.

I was saying that if you want to be the most powerful hero on the field mid game, go four wraiths

[Sloth]

If you take a look at the numbers and compare cost to effectiveness of items the earlier game items are always far more effective. The most powerful item in the game is the Iron Branch. The reason is that item slots are an important aspect of the game and are taken into account with item balance and the most efficient items will quickly fill your inventory. The sort of reverse of this is that you can maximize your stats by keeping your item slots well stocked. For example, if you're looking to get two Bracers consider buying both sets of components before buying the recipe to finish one first. Part of the recipe's cost is balanced to consider the fact that it condenses your item slots so you can put it off until you actually need the space.

A fun example:
+10 all stats can be 530g with 10 Iron Branches, 2700g with 2 Belts of Strength, 2 Robes of the Magi and 2 Gloves of Elvenskin (the 450g Agi item, w/e the name is) or 3000g with an Ogre Club, Staff of Wizardry and Blade of Alacrity. The first you can't even carry but is by far the cheapest, the second fills your inventory but at significantly higher cost, and the third frees up three slots at a 300g premium.