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Old 16th Dec 2012, 16:30   #1
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Question on ID

In some countries, like The Netherlands, you need to carry a form of ID on you at all times, however, in the UK you don't have to.

As a young adult out and about I've always wondered from a hypothetical point of view, if a member of the police asks you for ID in the UK, do you have to show it? And would you be forced to show it if you do have it?

What would happen if you had ID, said you didn't and then they found it etc, would that count as wasting police time etc?

I don't know if this qualifies as serious, but I don't particularly want to go up to a policeman and ask, as it might come off as somewhat suspicious...

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Old 16th Dec 2012, 16:55   #2
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bB9IC4DDf4
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 17:09   #3
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That video is ridiculous - poor police man, just doing what he has been asked to do and gets stuck up on the internet for hundreds of thousands to laugh at.

You want a state where policing is ineffective? Go live in Somalia :<
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 17:26   #4
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He's taking things a bit far, but I've been a fan of the 'stay silent' idea.
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 17:32   #5
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IF the police asked me for ID, I would supply it. After all, I've done nothing wrong and I carry my ID with me at all times.
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 17:38   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogomip View Post
That video is ridiculous - poor police man, just doing what he has been asked to do and gets stuck up on the internet for hundreds of thousands to laugh at.
He cant even quote the law hes trying to enforce & then assaults a member of the public out of sheer frustration at his own inadequacy ...thus he deserves to be laughed at, after all his idea of proper policing is a joke

Anyway you are all OT

Quote:
...from a hypothetical point of view, if a member of the police asks you for ID in the UK, do you have to show it? And would you be forced to show it if you do have it?
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 18:04   #7
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I was always under the impression that, were you unable to present ID at that time, you had a pre-determined (I always hear three days quoted) time frame to go to the police station and present some form of ID.

How much truth there is to that I couldn't say.

I guess they could arrest you on some technicality, I suspect obstruction of justice would be the most common one if you refuse to present ID that you have on you. I would imagine they would need a cause to make that request.

For example, in that video, the cyclist failed to stop at a red light (Let's not get into a debate about cyclists and the rules of the road) and was being issued a ticket. The fact that PC is a buffoon isn't at issue - The PC has made the request to enable him enforce the rules of the road, and the cyclist refuses - Effectively avoiding getting a ticket.

However, I'm no lawyer!
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 18:06   #8
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Originally Posted by tuk View Post
He cant even quote the law hes trying to enforce & then assaults a member of the public out of sheer frustration at his own inadequacy ...thus he deserves to be laughed at, after all his idea of proper policing is a joke
He pulled someone up for running a red light. You dont even know that guy, how dare you think you even have the right to judge everything he does based upon one video. Was he protecting people at Tottenham court road in the riots last year? Has he caught a burglar before? Talked a guy off the ledge? I dont know, you dont know, so stop thinking you have the right to judge him based upon one video taken by an obviously bias person.

More to it, how would you like it if you had a camera stuffed up your face, a guy saying "am I compelled to do that" every 5 seconds, and then asked the quote a law from memory. The law says "dont run red lights". Now true, when the guy got frustrated he shouldn't have tried to take the camera away - especially as its clear that is exactly what the guy taking the video wanted (to harass that guy, get his guard up, force him into a mistake and then brandish him as an idiot on the internet), but he doesn't deserve all this for that.

Sucks to be a police officer, the only time people really like you are when you are protecting them from mobs throwing molotov cocktails, or stopping robberies - i.e. when they are acting as a meat shield and putting themselves in danger to help protect you.

edit: for evidence of the hatred toward the policeman for what he is doing, nobody seems to give two hoots that a guy ran a red light.
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 18:21   #9
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Originally Posted by Bogomip View Post
He pulled someone up for running a red light.
...allegedly, & if so why didn't he just arrest him?

Quote:
You dont even know that guy,
Your right & neither do you, but I wasn't judging his personality ..only his policing & knowledge of the law.

Quote:
how dare you think you even have the right to judge
He is a public servant & I pay his wages ..that give me the right.

Quote:
how dare you think you even have the right to judge everything he does
Can you link to where I judge everything he does? ..all my comments are aimed solely at the contents of the video.

I could go on but your post is so full of fail I could be here all night ...again your OT
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 18:49   #10
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again your OT
Says the person that posted the video in the first place...

And it's spelt you're.
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 19:23   #11
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Can you link to where I judge everything he does?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuk View Post
He cant even quote the law hes trying to enforce & then assaults a member of the public out of sheer frustration at his own inadequacy ...thus he deserves to be laughed at, after all his idea of proper policing is a joke

Anyway you are all OT
He doesn't arrest him as it isn't an arrestable offence (fine, or points, or disqualification). Funnily enough you also "pay my wages", does that give you the right to tell me how to teach? Does it give you the right to come and observe one of my lessons, pass judgement on it etc? No.

edit: I wrote a dodgy report once, a few years ago - Ill email you my photo so you can plaster it all over the internet with the captcha "**** TEACHER" all over it.

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Old 16th Dec 2012, 21:36   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flibblesan View Post
Says the person that posted the video in the first place...
It's a video showing a person refusing to produce Id( on request from the police ) or even give his name ...very on topic.

Quote:
And it's spelt you're.
It's discussion not a book report, you might be able to spell but you completely misunderstood the video in relation to the thread

Quote:
...after all his idea of proper policing is a joke
In the context of what happens in the video, Yes! absolutely, he completely loses the plot, buts that is completely different from: judging everything he does ...as a teacher I'm sure you can appreciate the distinction.

Quote:
Funnily enough you also "pay my wages", does that give you the right to tell me how to teach?
Yes, specifically when I'm the parent of the kids your teaching & generally because I do "pay your wages" & vote.

Quote:
Does it give you the right to come and observe one of my lessons, pass judgement on it etc?
Yes, but I pay another person to carry out inspections on my behalf.

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Old 16th Dec 2012, 21:47   #13
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I see, do you also have the right to go into Tesco HQ and demand a run down of their managerial procedures because you help fund them by shopping there? I guess you think the football team you support should invite you to their team events because you buy a ticket to watch them play, paying their wages? Shall I let the Rolling Stones know you require an invite to their Christmas party?!

The government buys the services of people like me and that police person, a service which is run by the state, and bought by the public. You buy public services like you buy a loaf of bread, the only difference is that you have no option of which bread you buy, only the person who provides it (when you vote).

Basically, because the tax you pay helps pay for it does not give you ownership of the people employed to provide it. If you came up to me, even as the parent of a student, with no teaching qualification, with no idea of what it means to do that job, then I would tell you to go and talk to my head, and she would show you the door. Of course from this I might then get observations and stuff from qualified staff - accountability is important, but you certainly never have the right to expect to see and/or judge anybody in their profession when you know nothing of what it entails.
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Old 16th Dec 2012, 21:49   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogomip View Post
I see, do you also have the right to go into Tesco HQ and demand a run down of their managerial procedures because you help fund them by shopping there?
Again, YES! ..but Again I pay another person to do that for me. & If they don't meet my high standards then I stop paying them.

Quote:
Basically, because the tax you pay helps pay for it does not give you ownership of the people employed to provide it.
0/10 ..no one made this claim:

having a say != owning people

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Old 16th Dec 2012, 23:23   #15
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Oooh I wondered where the troll was. Found you tuk

Lithereal iirc the x days - which was 5 -applies to presenting you driving licence if stopped in relation to low level motoring offences or checks. But one of the copper on here will know for certain.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 01:41   #16
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I reported the video op linked as its abusing animals.

Honestly, the guy pulled him for running a red light, cyclists need to obey the highway code. And then standing there for 10 minutes pissing off a police officer who is clearly annoyed by this nonce's gassing in trying to get out of it.

Deserves every bit of it.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 10:19   #17
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I'm not normally vindictive, but god, I almost hope he gets knocked off his bike next time he tries that stunt, the ****.

I'm beginning to understand why cyclists seem to be afforded so much hatred.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 10:58   #18
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I wouldn't give my details to a police officer that wasn't able to quote the law which obliges me to do so - that's ridiculous.

Purely on the basis that it isn't a citizen's responsibility to know and understand every law but it is CERTAINLY a police officer's to quote and explain it when he or she is applying their powers with it.

Hence the whole "do you understand" bit when one is arrested - the police have to be sure that someone understands why they are being arrested. There are a few scenarios where they don't and fair judgement is used, but in that video there, that copper doesn't even know what he's trying to apply so I think he absolutely deserved it.


@OP - You do not have to carry ID with you in the UK, similarly, if you do have it, you do not have to produce it if asked (unless you are driving a motor vehicle, then you do). If you decide to withhold it, it's probably best to explain why you are doing that rather than the risk of misleading the officer at which point they'll put you through more grief, and probably rightly so.

Essentially, you can't be punished for not producing ID, even if you have it. In the UK we have this saying which is "you are who you say you are" and our laws lean heavily towards protecting that - it is implied that everyone is trustworthy unless there are indications to suggest one is not.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 12:44   #19
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Essentially, you can't be punished for not producing ID, even if you have it. In the UK we have this saying which is "you are who you say you are" and our laws lean heavily towards protecting that - it is implied that everyone is trustworthy unless there are indications to suggest one is not.
Although the Police are allowed to take you to the station and hold you so they can run further checks on your identification to ascertain you are who you say you are if they feel the details you have provided aren't true.

Unless you're wanted for a crime and trying to evade capture it's easier to just give them your ID so they can get on with whatever you were stopped for.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 17:14   #20
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Originally Posted by Ending Credits View Post
I'm not normally vindictive, but god, I almost hope he gets knocked off his bike next time he tries that stunt, the ****.

I'm beginning to understand why cyclists seem to be afforded so much hatred.
Please don't judge cyclists based on that.
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