bit-tech.net

Go Back   bit-tech.net Forums > Custom PC > Magazine Discussion
Reload this Page Requesting DIY NAS box feature
Register FAQ / Rules Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28th Dec 2012, 14:42   #1
RedPen
Rig Hoarder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
RedPen has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Requesting DIY NAS box feature
Like many readers, no doubt, I have several aging rigs and components doing nothing much in a cupboard. Though I have frequently coveted the Synology NAS box, I wonder just what kind of a homemade NAS box I could make with yesteryear's kit. Afterall I have already paid for it so it's free, right? (somewhat dubious upgrader logic)

I'd be interested to know what the praticalities are of having an old rig run NAS box duty. Probably with something like FreeNAS. What I can strip it down to to reduce energy consumption. Have it run safely with simple fan or passive cooling, schedule or remotely wake it and shut it down. What CPUs of yesteryear are suitable, or if serious underclocking is practical/possible. All that sort of thing.

I'd also be happy to see a custom built NAS based around the very low power mobo/cpu, eg Intel Atom. And probably an advertiser pleasing list of the best HDDs for the job.

Frankly, anything that I can recycle would be good.
RedPen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Dec 2012, 15:25   #2
faugusztin
I *am* the guy with two left hands
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 4,574
faugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for president
You can ignore cooling, they have small power consumption. Most fans have power consumption of 0.1-0.3W at 12V.

You should look at motherboards/CPU with integrated graphics, so you can ignore adding a lowend GPU which will still use much more power.

You should also look at modern dual core CPU, ideally Celeron G530 or similar. You could go as low as 30W from the socket with no hard drives. With AMD Semprons and Athlon II's i was able to reach around 45W with no hard drives. Both values are of course from at the socket side, so PSU efficiency plays role in those values. Atom is a good idea too, with a modern Atom system (N2800) you could see values bellow 20W, with 5xx series it should be low 20W values, with the old 3xx series it should be high 20's (my system used around 28W at the time with Atom 330+ION board).

You should also keep in mind, that one of the biggest factors will be your hard drives. Each hard drive will use 4-10W when spinning, and if you have 8 of them that is already 30-80W, just on the hard drives alone! And we don't even talk about the spinup power consumption at computer startup, where most of the drives use around 2A at 12V line, that is 20-24W at startup per drive - this explains why you shouldn't use picoPSU with 4 mechanical hard drives or more (they can easily eat up all your 12V current from the little picoPSU).

Underclocking is pretty much irrelevant, unless we talk about archaic hardware (pre Core 2). Intel Core and AMD K8/K10 based CPU all have power saving techniques which drop them to 1.6GHz (Intel) or 800MHz (AMD), so there is not much to save at idle, and you won't have much load if it will act only as a NAS.

If i would do a current gen stuff, then i would choose either an Atom N2800 or Celeron G5xx, with a suitable board, some 3TB WD Red's (power consumption is lower than WD Green, without the annoying 8s spindown feature), Seasonig G360 and computer case of your choice.

In case of older hardware, it would be good if you could say what board/CPU combos you have at home to choose from.
__________________
Cerberus Core i7-2600K Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe GSkill RipjawsX 2x8GB DDR3-1600CL9 watercooled EVGA GTX670 Samsung 830 256GB Bitfenix Prodigy Seasonic X-460 Windows 8 Pro
Prometheus Xeon E3-1235 Asus P8B WS GSkill RipjawsX 2x4GB DDR3-1333CL7+2x8GB DDR3-1333CL9 Coolink Corator DS Force 3 240GB+4xWD30EFRX+2xWD20EARS+6xWD20EARX Nanoxia DS1 Seasonic X-460 Ubuntu 12.04
faugusztin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2012, 07:15   #3
RedPen
Rig Hoarder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
RedPen has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Thanks for that detailed reply.

The most recent currently unused rig I have is...
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz (FSB 1333MHz) Socket 775 L2 12MB Cache SLAWQ (C1)
Noctua NH-U12P Cooler
Gigabyte GA-X48T-DQ6 motherboard

I suspect anything older than that might be a little too old as anything that was decent got stripped and reused elsewhere or given to friends and family.

I've got 2 Intel socket 478 processors, a Northwood 3.06 and a Prescott 3.0 (if I recall correctly) and only 1 Abit mobo (the other mobo, an Asus, died from capacitor failure). I believe it might still be possible to source a suitable and cheap mobo for these if it were worthwhile. But I think it's likely they would draw too much power.

Any rigs older than that, and I have a couple that still work, undoubtedly don't support SATA.

I fully expect that the Cases I have are in fact the only things I have that are useful for this task. Whatever I can salvage would be good and it would be nice to be able to build my own NAS with plenty more bays than most ready made NAS boxes offer.
RedPen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2012, 10:20   #4
faugusztin
I *am* the guy with two left hands
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 4,574
faugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for president
Well, with Q9550, P45 board and a lowend graphics card you would look at 65W idle power usage :
Test setup : http://www.silentpcreview.com/article954-page3.html
Power usage: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article954-page5.html

Depending on the specifics, your board could use 0-20W more. It would be good to just put those components together, put a lowend graphics card on it so it could boot (something like GT210), add a DVD drive, boot a live CD with Ubuntu and measure the power consumption.

Then it's up to you to do the math and decide if it is worth to sell your old components (Q9550 is still above £100 on ebay) and buy new components instead :

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel...mart-cache-oem - £33.06 (cheap dualcore Sandy Bridge CPU)
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/4gb-(...-9-9-9-24-150v - £17.28 (random 2x2GB DDR3 memory)
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-...vga)-dvi-d-atx - £56.10 (random ATX motherboard with 6 SATA ports - buy only B75/H77/Z77 depending on your requirements)
Total : £106.44

£106 for a board+CPU+RAM combo with power consumption as low as 30-35W, that will be probably less than the price you could sell your CPU. And you could sell your board as well then, that means more money, maybe even for the Seasonic G-360 80Plus Gold PSU :
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/360w-...gold-quiet-fan (£47.23)

You could keep the NH-U12P cooler, maybe the only thing you would need is the new SecuFirm3 LGA1156/1366 mounting kit, which is used for LGA1155 too :
http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=p...s_id=30&lng=en
__________________
Cerberus Core i7-2600K Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe GSkill RipjawsX 2x8GB DDR3-1600CL9 watercooled EVGA GTX670 Samsung 830 256GB Bitfenix Prodigy Seasonic X-460 Windows 8 Pro
Prometheus Xeon E3-1235 Asus P8B WS GSkill RipjawsX 2x4GB DDR3-1333CL7+2x8GB DDR3-1333CL9 Coolink Corator DS Force 3 240GB+4xWD30EFRX+2xWD20EARS+6xWD20EARX Nanoxia DS1 Seasonic X-460 Ubuntu 12.04
faugusztin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2012, 15:43   #5
RedPen
Rig Hoarder
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
RedPen has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Thanks again for the detailed reply.

It had not occured to me that recycling could also be done by selling the CPU on eBay and then buying a more suitable low power solution. I'm surprised to see an 80Plus Gold PSU that cheap, but then I'm usually looking at PSU 600watts and above.

I'm now wondering what other components I have that might go some way to funding the purchase of those WD RED HDDs. I feel a bit stupid for not having thought of selling the components, but I am very grateful for your suggestions.

Cheers
RedPen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st Dec 2012, 15:48   #6
Editor22
E22.BIZ
 
Editor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bristol <UK>
Posts: 1,621
Editor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run CrysisEditor22 can run Crysis
Thanks for all the info Faugusztin! have some rep
__________________
Store: E22
Social: Youtube | Facebook
Projects: Evolution | K2 MK1
Editor22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Jan 2013, 10:21   #7
Bitwacker
C# forever
 
Bitwacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 76
Bitwacker has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
FreeNAS, baby! have to cover target software together with the hardware.
__________________
i7-2600K | 16GB 1600 | ATI 5870 (Asus) | 2x120GB SSD (RAID 0) | 2x1TB Samsung F1 | Asus Xonar DX | 30" DELL | 2x23" Dell | Cooling: single water cooling loop
Bitwacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Jan 2013, 12:59   #8
Flibblebot
Gimp dog!
 
Flibblebot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nowhere interesting
Posts: 3,546
Flibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitFlibblebot is almost as Godly as yodasarmpit
I use an old Athlon system for my NAS system - there's no need to worry about graphics, because once initial setup is done, they system runs headlessly.

To save additional power, I have a script that puts the server to sleep if it hasn't been used for 15 minutes. Because it's used as a media server, the media player PC just sends a WOL command before accessing the movie.

I also use a script running on my main server to shut the servers down at night - and then use a timer switch to turn them back on in the morning.

Oh, and I use unRAID as my NAS software of choice.
__________________
My uber-system: 66Mhz 486DX2, 8Mb RAM, 20Mb hard drive, 256 colour VGA adaptor (goes all the way up to 800x600!), keyboard AND serial mouse
Flibblebot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jan 2013, 07:35   #9
mrbungle
Undercooked chicken giver
 
mrbungle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK-Wolverhampton
Posts: 3,000
mrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for presidentmrbungle should be considered for president
Also look at the all in one solutions

http://www.ebuyer.com/407427-biostar...mi-6-nm70i-847

http://www.ebuyer.com/407426-biostar...68i-350-deluxe

Only limiting factor with those is the number of sata, but a card can always be added.
__________________
One//i5 3570K 4.5Ghz//Z68X-UD4-B3//8gb DDR3//EVGA 670 F.T.W.//HX850W//CM690ii//2x128 V200 SSD//Xonar DG//
Two//i5 2500K 4.5Ghz//Assrock Z68 Gen3//8gb DDR3//MSI 7970//TX750W//Akasa Mirage//128 Vertex+ SSD//Xonar DG//
mrbungle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th Jan 2013, 10:03   #10
scott_chegg
It's a tool.
 
scott_chegg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Manchester
Posts: 904
scott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for presidentscott_chegg should be considered for president
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitwacker View Post
FreeNAS, baby! have to cover target software together with the hardware.
While FreeNAS is good I would go for it's spiritual successor. OpenMediaVault.

Or for ultimate freedom brush up your Linux skills and go for Ubuntu Server.
__________________
My System: i5 2500K @ 4.7Ghz | MSI P67A-GD65 (B3) | 16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 1600MHz | Corsair H-50 Push-Pull with Silent Eagle 2000's | Silverstone Raven RV03 | EVGA 670 FTW | Dell SP2309W | Antec 750W TruePower Blue | Win 7 x64 | Crucial 64GB C300 for OS | Samsung 830 256GB for Active Games & a 1TB Samsung for Steam. Perphiperals: Roccat Kone+ Max V2 | CMStorm Quickfire Pro with Cherry Reds | Cyborg F.L.Y 5 stick for flying and a Logitech DF GT for driving.
scott_chegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2013, 19:27   #11
Yaka
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: a very dark place
Posts: 354
Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.
what are the pros and cons for each?

i am going for a free nas build but still aint 100% sure

also freenas faq states 7200rpm drive are a no-no yet hitachi state that thier 4tb 7200rpm drive is built for a nas
Yaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2013, 19:35   #12
faugusztin
I *am* the guy with two left hands
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 4,574
faugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for president
FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD, has RaidZ : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-sta..._levels#RAID-Z . You got a web interface for configuration.
OpenMediaVault is a fork/recreation of most of the FreeNAS features (not RaidZ) on top of Debian Linux. You got a web interface for configuration, but you can install anything outside of the OpenMediaVault, as it is simply a Debian system, with additional extra features.
Ubuntu Server is well, Ubuntu. No web interface etc, just a simple plain Linux installation.

I personally use Ubuntu 12.04LTS due the features i required (remote desktop for various tools, MythTV for my DVB-C card) which would be impossible in FreeNAS and while it could be done in OMV, Ubuntu is a not as conservative as Debian, which is important for stuff like TV card support.
__________________
Cerberus Core i7-2600K Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe GSkill RipjawsX 2x8GB DDR3-1600CL9 watercooled EVGA GTX670 Samsung 830 256GB Bitfenix Prodigy Seasonic X-460 Windows 8 Pro
Prometheus Xeon E3-1235 Asus P8B WS GSkill RipjawsX 2x4GB DDR3-1333CL7+2x8GB DDR3-1333CL9 Coolink Corator DS Force 3 240GB+4xWD30EFRX+2xWD20EARS+6xWD20EARX Nanoxia DS1 Seasonic X-460 Ubuntu 12.04
faugusztin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2013, 12:04   #13
Fingers66
Kiwi in London
 
Fingers66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 6,093
Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
Bit-Tech did an article a couple of years ago on how to build a NAS: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/sto...ld-a-nas-box/1. A bit old now but still relevant.

Consider OpenMediaVault as your NAS O/S, much much better than FreeNAS inho, I moved to it from FreeNAS a long time ago.

http://www.openmediavault.org/
__________________
Gaming: [Silverstone FT01-BW][Asus Z68-V Pro/GEN3][i5-2500K@4.0GHz][Titan Fenrir][8GB 1866MHz][Asus GTX 580][Crucial M4 256GB][Xonar DX][Antec TP New 650w][Dell U2412M][Corsair K60]
Main: [Lian Li PC-A04][Asus P8P67-M Pro][i5-2500K][8GB 1600MHz][Asus 6850 DirectCU][Corsair Force 3 120GB][Seasonic S12 430w]
Kids: [Silverstone SG05B][Asus P8H61-I][Pentium G840][4GB 1333MHz][OCZ Vertex Plus R2 120GB][Dell E207WFP]
Projects: [Antec 300 improved] NAS 1: [Synology DS211j] NAS 2: [OpenMediaVault]
Fingers66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2013, 08:54   #14
Yaka
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: a very dark place
Posts: 354
Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Yaka is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.
http://www.hgst.com/internal-drives/...eskstar-7k4000 are these worth going for? even tho freenas does not recommend using 7200rpm drives
Yaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2013, 09:49   #15
Fingers66
Kiwi in London
 
Fingers66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 6,093
Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.Fingers66 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
No.

Sent from my phone...
__________________
Gaming: [Silverstone FT01-BW][Asus Z68-V Pro/GEN3][i5-2500K@4.0GHz][Titan Fenrir][8GB 1866MHz][Asus GTX 580][Crucial M4 256GB][Xonar DX][Antec TP New 650w][Dell U2412M][Corsair K60]
Main: [Lian Li PC-A04][Asus P8P67-M Pro][i5-2500K][8GB 1600MHz][Asus 6850 DirectCU][Corsair Force 3 120GB][Seasonic S12 430w]
Kids: [Silverstone SG05B][Asus P8H61-I][Pentium G840][4GB 1333MHz][OCZ Vertex Plus R2 120GB][Dell E207WFP]
Projects: [Antec 300 improved] NAS 1: [Synology DS211j] NAS 2: [OpenMediaVault]
Fingers66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2013, 10:04   #16
Skyphox
Multimodder
 
Skyphox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Liverpool, UK
Posts: 78
Skyphox has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
What's the software raid like in OpenMediaVault? And how do the plugins work? I can see the packages repository but can't actually make sense of it.

Cheers!
__________________
i7-2600K @ 4.3ghz | 16GB DDR3 Corsair Vengeance | Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 | GIGABYTE Super Overclock GeForce GTX 460 GPU | Intel X25-M 80gb ssd
Skyphox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2013, 10:17   #17
faugusztin
I *am* the guy with two left hands
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 4,574
faugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for presidentfaugusztin should be considered for president
Software RAID on OMV is Linux software RAID. OMV plugins are pretty much installation scripts for various debian apps, combined with the additions to the web UI to configure these apps. For example Greyhole plugin installs Greyhole using apt, then gives you a Web UI to configure contents of greyhole.conf instead of manually editing the required files.
__________________
Cerberus Core i7-2600K Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe GSkill RipjawsX 2x8GB DDR3-1600CL9 watercooled EVGA GTX670 Samsung 830 256GB Bitfenix Prodigy Seasonic X-460 Windows 8 Pro
Prometheus Xeon E3-1235 Asus P8B WS GSkill RipjawsX 2x4GB DDR3-1333CL7+2x8GB DDR3-1333CL9 Coolink Corator DS Force 3 240GB+4xWD30EFRX+2xWD20EARS+6xWD20EARX Nanoxia DS1 Seasonic X-460 Ubuntu 12.04
faugusztin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2013, 10:44   #18
Skyphox
Multimodder
 
Skyphox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Liverpool, UK
Posts: 78
Skyphox has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
How do you see what is available plugin wise? Having trouble navigating the folders.

http://packages.openmediavault.org/public/
__________________
i7-2600K @ 4.3ghz | 16GB DDR3 Corsair Vengeance | Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 | GIGABYTE Super Overclock GeForce GTX 460 GPU | Intel X25-M 80gb ssd
Skyphox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
freenas, low power, nas, network attached storage, recycle

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:44.
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

bit-tech.net - Top