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Old 15th Jan 2013, 08:13   #1
Spikey101
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Gaming monitor, 24-27"

Hey everyone, well first off just so you know I have trawled the web and just can't find any truely helpful (for me) information on a decent gaming monitor at 24-27" size. I got sucked into buying the 3d alienware monitor and never use the 3D so just want rid now.

Ideally im looking for a 27", 1440 display, but a lot of what I find are ~8ms which isn't ideal? Never used an 8ms display but heard it's not good for ghosting etc. Ive seen a lot about the Dell 2412 display but again its 6ms I think and i'd rather have a decent 27" anyway.

Budget... Well value for money always but don't mind spending a fair bit.

Thanks for any help guys, i've got the itch for new hardware (Maybe a graphics card to go with this ) but can't scratch it till I know what to buy!
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 10:48   #2
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I'm using (and LOVING) the Yamakasi Catleap Q270 1440p 27" monitor (it was about 240 delivered - from Korea!), though if I'd had a bit more flex in the budget I would have picked up the ASUS PB278Q without even thinking twice.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 13:00   #3
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I recently bought the BenQ XL2420T and love it. Yes it has the hype - designed for gamers by gamers etc but...

Let me start off by saying that I have no interest in 3D, neither do I have any intention of investigating how good it is at 3D as 3D makes me feel sick and dizzy. I bought it solely for the 120hz and 2ms response. For gaming it is superb and is way better than my Dell U2410.

FPS games look far smoother to me and it's been worth every penny. After a few hours of gaming on the Dell I would sometimes get headaches and the feeling of sea sickness. I haven't noticed that at all since I have been using the BENQ.

If you want the monitor for picture editing as well, then this is not the monitor for you. Whilst it is a superb gaming monitor, it's colour reproduction is not great out of the box - it does have a very user friendly setup and once tweaked the colour reproduction is better.

Viewing angles are not great, but as I sit directly infront of it, I don't care.

The stand is pretty robust and it has an extension on the base that allows you to quickly switch between profiles.

Has it made me a better gamer? - of course not, but it has made the experience far more pleasureable.

For me, this monitor does what it says on the tin.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 13:23   #4
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what chris said, IMO the 120Hz of your Alienware monitor is a pretty good incentive to stick with it but you need your games running at 120 fps to get that smoothness only achievable via 120Hz.

Or go for the U2410 if you aren't planning on running everything at 120 fps. There is no ghosting and the input lag as such won't be noticeable (although the U2311 has the lowest input lag if you really care about that).
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 13:57   #5
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From looking at them here in the office, I'd go for an ASUS PB278Q in a second..

Failing that, a Dell U2711 or whatever it is
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 15:23   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey101 View Post
Hey everyone, well first off just so you know I have trawled the web and just can't find any truely helpful (for me) information on a decent gaming monitor at 24-27" size. I got sucked into buying the 3d alienware monitor and never use the 3D so just want rid now.

Ideally im looking for a 27", 1440 display, but a lot of what I find are ~8ms which isn't ideal? Never used an 8ms display but heard it's not good for ghosting etc. Ive seen a lot about the Dell 2412 display but again its 6ms I think and i'd rather have a decent 27" anyway.

Budget... Well value for money always but don't mind spending a fair bit.

Thanks for any help guys, i've got the itch for new hardware (Maybe a graphics card to go with this ) but can't scratch it till I know what to buy!
What games are you playing?
If you are playing FPS games, and you are playing competitively, and not just for fun, especially if you have twitch reflexes. Then you are better off with a 120Hz monitor TN panel. Make sure your games runs at 120fps (serious graphical drop in games or serious computation power is needed) Something that most FPS gamers are willing to take.

If you play any other types of games, then 120Hz is a bit useless, and you can afford (visually and experience), getting an IPS panel monitor, which will display much better colors, will make the games look much nicer, provide you 178 degree view angles in all directions, so that no mater how and where you sit, you perfectly see your screen. No color shift. And the more you pay, the better the colors are with a visible difference.

If you wonder, currently, there is no 1440p TN panel. Non was showed at CES either. 1440p+ monitors are still targeted at professionals, so they are IPS panels. They cost much more (including 1920x1200 (1200p)), as they are not budget targeted monitors. You do get the higher build quality, they are not glossy, and there is a focus on color reproduction over speed. Due to this, they have higher input lag than most TN panels. So this can influence your twitch hyper fast reflexes in FPS games.

As for response time, it is meaning less number. The speed calculation is not standardized. It is calculated by measuring the speed of how fast the monitor can refresh a pixel on the screen from 1 color to another. As LCD monitor draws 1 lines at a time, from the top to bottom, higher the resolution, the slower it is at doing it. Another reason why high resolutions cost more... they need to be faster to compensate for the slower time it requires to draw.

Every response time measurement that you see, are measured using "gray-to-gray" measurement. This means, that the manufacture gets to pick any gray color it wants including, and not limited at the same gray color, and see how fast it is. The results of this is LIES, especially the ones that claims <5ms response time.

Have a look at this example. Now this was measured by TFTCentral, a monitor review site that only review monitors, all their reviews are crazy in depth, and they have the expertise, and equipment to test to provide such review, so you know what I am about to show in this example isn't crap.

Here is the Dell U2410 - IPS panel 1920x1200 monitor, claiming 6ms response time, VS, ViewSonic VX2739wm - TN - 1920x1080 monitor, claiming 1ms response time.
So as you can see, the ViewSonic is a TN panel, has a lower resolution, and suppose to have 1ms response time... so technically speaking, based on the above, the ViewSonic is suppose to be faster than the U2410, no mater how you put it.

Well let's see the results:



As you can see, the Dell U2410 beats the ViewSonic monitor in terms of response time.
So probably ViewSonic used the same gray color, to get you the claimed 1ms response time.
And this is just one example.

Many here, like to play multi-genre games, and aren't FPS hardcore gamers, and if we play FPS games, it's just for the fun factor, not the competitiveness. So, a lot of people here, buy IPS panels.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 15:24   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankz View Post
From looking at them here in the office, I'd go for an ASUS PB278Q in a second..

Failing that, a Dell U2711 or whatever it is
Do you have them side by side? If so how does the U2711 compared with the ASUS one that you have?
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 15:34   #8
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My suggestions are:
-> Best visual experience: Dell U2410, U2711, U2713H (waiting for in depth reviews on that model, but looks good), U3011. (H-IPS panels from LG, true 8-bit panels, 2x pre-color calibrated with report" Adobe RGB and sRGB profiles. U3011 uses a 10-bit panel. U2713H uses an AH-IPS panels)

-> On a budget: U2713HM (AH-IPS panel from LG, true 8-bit panel, comes with pre-color calibrated sRGB profile with report)

-> On a lower budget: U2412, U2312HM (eIPS LG panels, 6-bit panels)

-> On a tight budget: LG IPS 23 inch series monitors (they are a few of them, and varies depending on where you live, but the panel itself and product are pretty much the same)


Why Dell? Well my suggestions are based on reviews and also user feedback here. ASUS monitor aren't picked here, probably due to the problems many monitor had few years ago. Also, for what you get, due in not having a brand name, you pay less, so you get more for your money.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 15:36   #9
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Full review of the ASUS PB278Q.

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Old 15th Jan 2013, 16:19   #10
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I use a U2711 and love it. Don't notice any lag or anything, but I'm usually sat a bit away from it, rather than at a desk.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 20:48   #11
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Ok first off, thanks for all the advice guys! Especially Goodbytes, loads of details there thank you!

Im not a big fps gamer at all, I play them when a big name game comes out but only for fun! I like the bit about response time you showed, has opened my eyes a bit actually. I will probably take slightly less notice now.

At the moment im getting back into WoW so a nice colourful panel will complement the art style of the game fantastically.

Im on my phone now so gonna grab my laptop and look through the screens you all suggested, but the 27inch dell sounds like a nice idea! I love Asus hardware but not sure if I would get a screen from them if they are new to it...
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 21:10   #12
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Ok at the moment it's between the U2711 or the U2713H. I love the idea of having a monitor that has nice vibrant colours, and unlike the last idiotic purchase I made in the form of a 3d monitor (a few years ago now) I'd like it to last quite a few years this time. Im not sure if the 13H is worth thr increase in price but at these levels its not really all that much more. Plus I can sell my Alienware to help fund it.

I guess working all the hours God sends has its benefits.

Do you guys think the 13H would be worth the extra? Im going to do some reading.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 21:24   #13
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This obviously won't affect your choice, but Asus aren't new to screens, only afaik PLS panels (IPS alternative)
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 21:49   #14
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Guess in the past I havent looked hard enough, I've never noticed them before the past few years heh.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 21:49   #15
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ASUS has been doing monitors for a long time... BUT they used to make junk. Over priced monitors that were not better than the ultra cheap monitors. It is about since 2010 or 2011 ASUS decided to invest really on monitors, and releasing quality monitors. They had issues at first, like high pitch whine noise when brightness is not at 100%, and other issues. But they seam to have solved these with either new iteration of the monitor, or revision. ASUS is taken A LOT of pages of Dell UltraSharp series. The on screen menu looks identical to Dell's down to even item positioning (the only differences is that the graphics on the menu looks like 16x16 icons scaled up to 32x32 so they are pixelated like crazy, and not semi-transparent look as Dell has. In other words they tried to replicate it, but it's not exact).

The professional line of ASUS also includes features that Dell offers like the pre-calibrated profiles with report. Where also the report looks identical to Dell's.. just turned landscape instead of portrait.

Anything Dell releases in it's UltraSharp series, ASUS releases something similar several months after. The panels are different (different manufacture), and just recently they release Samsung take on IPS panels... which they call PLS panel (I still can't see a difference between PLS and eIPS (low end IPS), in terms of how it works. Even the sub pixel levels, it looks the same. However, this is because Samsung never released how PLS works, and there is no one that has the equipment, and ready to break a PLS monitor to look inside, and try and see if there is a difference. If there is, so far it looks like it's minor... probably to avoid patent disputes.

As ASUS is fairly new, few people here have ASUS professional monitors, if any, or at least don't speak up when I request feedback. Also, the price, at least in Canada and US, is higher than Dell's. And while in some aspects like image output on some ASUS monitors, are said to be better to a similar Dell monitor, it is, based on review sites, marginal, and for about 100-150$ premium, even review sites have a hard time recommending it (those who reviewed Dell monitors previously).

My take is, assuming ASUS monitor is really (I have no user feedback on this forum, and in depth reviews are slim in numbers to none, depending on the model), I would get either monitor, which ever is the cheapest (like if the ASUS monitor is on special and cheaper than the similar model from Dell, you can get that one).
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 22:19   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey101 View Post
Ok at the moment it's between the U2711 or the U2713H. I love the idea of having a monitor that has nice vibrant colours, and unlike the last idiotic purchase I made in the form of a 3d monitor (a few years ago now) I'd like it to last quite a few years this time. Im not sure if the 13H is worth thr increase in price but at these levels its not really all that much more. Plus I can sell my Alienware to help fund it.

I guess working all the hours God sends has its benefits.

Do you guys think the 13H would be worth the extra? Im going to do some reading.
The U2713H is aimed at replacing the U2711. It's taken a lot of the issues of the U2711 and solves them.. at least specs wise.
-> U2713H uses what it looks like RGB LED (not to be confused with white LED) to make the monitor wide gamut like high-grade CCFL's which the U2711 used. I THINK. No in depth reviews of it, for me to know. It could be some special coating put on white LEDs to make it wide gamut, or some special white LED that have not heard off. This is all new stuff.
In any case, this translate in making the panel create less heat, and reduce power consumption. If that is an issue for you, it is solved.

-> The anti-reflective film aggressiveness has been diminished to provide a, what it looks like, a better balance between reflection and making the film visible under whites. This issue is per taste. For me and like many here with the U2711, or U2410, have no issue. As you need to put the monitor at max brightness (and it will burn your eyes out, as these monitor are freaking bright), and you have to be way too close to the monitor. People who are used to glossy screens, gets hit the most.. as not only they are not used to the anti-reflective screen but also, they fall with one that is aggressive. If you come from a high end CRT monitor, or always used non glossy screens. It's really no issue.

-> The panel is more uniformly lit apparently (still waiting for in depth review to confirm this). Uniform illumination of the panel is not something you see on consumer grade monitors. It's either terrible or better. The U2711 was pretty good for a consumer grade monitor, the U2713H seams to improve on that further.


-> It features a 14-bit programmable Look UP Table, replacing the 12-bit non-programmable Look Up Table of the U2711. 14-bit part is useless, as the color processor is 12-bit, and can only output at best 10-bit colors (probably locked down, to reduce input lag from the color processor, to balance out gaming performance and colors amount).
I HIGHLY doubt you'll even use this.

1- 100% of your content that you see on your screen and use are encoded in 8-bit colors per channel (16.7 million colors total).
2- You certain don't have a high-end color calibrator which can program the Look Up Table, to get better calibrations
-> User review reports better calibration of the pre-calibrated profiles: Adobe RGB and sRGB. But I doubt you'll notice the difference, as the U2711 and U3011 and U2410 was not bad. Beside, people who seek color accuracy won't even care about that, as they have a color calibrator and calibrate their monitor monthly to compensate for the wear of the monitor and back light, so that they can continue to have pin-point color accuracy. It's just a nice feature to have for consumers who seek great colors out of the box, for an easy setup. The wear level that will offset the color over the years I doubt will be noticeable. It's not like Blues will be pink after a year or something, obviously.. (and not even after 10 years)

-> Build quality has been reduced over the U2711 a bit. It's not longer super stiff and solid like the U2711. Also the arm is no longer in solid metal, but plastic instead. The mechanical system and base plate is still in metal (plastic covers them for looks).

-> Unlike the U2711, the monitor stand does allow rotated the monitor from landscape to portrait.

-> USB hub has been updated to USB 3.0

-> And finally DisplayPort, has been updated to DisplayPort 1.2 with daisy chaining feature supported. That means you can attach a second 27inch monitor using 1x plug from your graphic card (assuming it has DisplayPort 1.2, and supports this feature).
However, in exchange you do have less inputs than the U2711.

You only have: DVI, 2x DisplayPort IN, (one of them is mini-DP) and DisplayPort OUT (for daisy chaining), and HDMI.
Compared to the U2711: HDMI*, DisplayPort, 2x DVI, VGA, Component, and Composite

*HDMI in the U2711, only support 1080p resolution. I don't know if this is the same limitation on the U2713H. It all depends on which version of HDMI Dell put in. Still 1.2, or 1.3 (I doubt 1.4, too pricey, and provides no benefit for this monitor.) HDMI 1.3 was very new when the U2711 was out, so it got 1.2, that is why you have the limitation.

The U2711 also feature side-by-side picture-in-picture.. I am not sure about the U2713H, it doesn't look like, but I am not sure, it's not mentioned at least, so I guess not.

So you have ups and downs. See what affects you or not, and pick the best one that fits your budget better.

If you wonder, I don't know a single person who was not happy with their U2711. However you must remember that the U2713H is bran new... so naturally no one has it. Its so new, it didn't arrive to Dell Canada yet.
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 23:34   #17
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Ok thanks again for that! Read the tft reviews and ironically its now down to the Asus PB27 and the Dell 2713H. Dedinately prefer the sound of the Dell but it's certainly a lot more money. Not sure what it sells for usually but the Asus is on sale on stlcan at the moment for 462. Almost 150 pounds cheaper than the Dell.

I guess it comes down to will I notice the difference. Im a gamer pure and simple, play games for the fun but I spend hours everyday doing it so like the experience to be as great as I can make it and I do generally notice audiable and visual differences than 'normal' people wouldnt.

A tough decison indeed...
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 23:56   #18
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And warranty coverage and service.
I haven't check ASUS warranty coverage lately. I'll do that later on, and get back to you.

But for Dell it's:
-> 6 dead pixel anywhere on the screen -> replacements. No zones, No distance between each dead pixels policy. You see 6 or mode, it's a replacement. That simple.
-> 0 bright pixel warranty. You see 1 or more stuck or white pixel -> replacement. Again, no zones, and no distance policy. You see 1 or more stuck or white pixel, it's a replacement.
-> 3 year warranty (you can extend it up to 5 years)
-> Shipping is paid BOTH sides by Dell (shipping labels will be provided to you)
-> You get to keep your monitor until you receive the replacement monitor, and in the box you'll find a shipping label inside. You just swamp the monitor, and stick the provided shipping label over the old one, and call the appropriate mail service mentioned on the shopping label to come and pick it up. So in the end, it's no problem to replace it, and you always have a monitor on your desk.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 12:34   #19
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If you're willing to go with a refurbished screen you can get the Dell for considerably cheaper [/self promotion] :P
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 21:37   #20
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As Olly has suggested, I would check out their web site http:// www.nrgit.biz they have U2711 - U2713 for great prices, and everyone here rates them including me.
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