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View Poll Results: Windows 8: what is your opinion?
Love it: I'm already using it or planning to do so. 59 42.14%
Hate it: this evil spawn of Satan will never defile the sanctity of my computer. 34 24.29%
It's OK with a Start Menu replacement and while bypassing Metro. 47 33.57%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18th Jan 2013, 12:24   #2081
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Under the USB icon in the taskbar, all of my Hard drives appear (all sata) and can be ejected. Is this some sort of hot swap feature, or is windows getting a bit confused?
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 12:26   #2082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001 View Post
Under the USB icon in the taskbar, all of my Hard drives appear (all sata) and can be ejected. Is this some sort of hot swap feature, or is windows getting a bit confused?
It is the your AHCI driver reporting your devices as ones supporting SATA hot swap.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 12:40   #2083
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Not really, but what would be so bad about that?
So you have (an example) two browsers from Microsoft in the same Microsoft OS that dont communicate with each other and you think that is acceptable?!
Two control panels with overlapping settings and that is acceptable too!?
...
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
In Windows Blue i personally expect the whole metro ui to be made into an optional install, and they will give the desktop back to its main spot for those that want it.
Or, Microsoft goes all in and makes Metro unskippable. It wil come a time where anyone that wants a Microsoft OS will have to go W8 or W8+.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 12:41   #2084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001 View Post
Running two O/Ses on the one computer is not a new method. Its been done long before the inception of windows 8.

I kick up a fuss, because its poor integration on Microsoft part. So much more could have been done to make metro something useful on the majority of devices upon which windows 8 could be installed.

Also if it wasn't for third parties, Metro would be compulsory. Fortunately there is nothing Microsoft can do to stop third party start menus from being created and distributed without seriously breaking other things.

So by pointing out flaws of windows metro and its irrelevance on the desktop, I have no vision
By not seeing past the flaws. Could integration be better? Sure, but give it some time and it will be.

You argue that this:



I more useful and user-friendly than this:



You argue that Metro and the desktop are poorly integrated:



OK, luckily Windows has always been open and allows people to mod the interface as we like. In fact I remember a time when we enjoyed doing that, rather than complaining loudly that we had to.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 13:08   #2085
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Metro and the Desktop are poorly integrated to the point where they are separate interfaces. MS have learned the lessons from early windows phones, a desktop is not suitable for a touch screen. They have in typical committee fashion bounced the other way, now we have a touch screen os on the desktop.

I'm happy with the post keyboard and mouse environment, I've been living it for years through my htpc but for jobs in which a desktop is the ideal tool, office type work, entering large amounts of information be it letters or lines of code the keyboard has proven itself to be the ideal method it has been for a 150 years. For that kind of work its unlikely to be replaced any time soon.

So if we've got a keyboard we might as well have pointing device. Will better options appear, undoubtedly, a touch screen instead of a mouse mat would be awesome and metro on that would be fantastic but on any desktop type pc I can envision actually wanting to use for "real" work, photo editing, programming and the like Metro doesn't add any thing but a big screen of short cuts.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 13:39   #2086
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What Microsoft strives for is and, not or. This is why the Surface RT has a desktop and keyboard as well as a Metro Touch interface.

I'm struggling to understand why people have a problem with two different interfaces on the same machine when they have been happily using the different interfaces of a CLI, Windows and various in-browser web-page interfaces on the same machine for years (remember when Windows ran on top of MS-DOS?), and work across different OSs on their desktop PC, their tablet and their mobile phone. Nobody had a problem using Metro on their phone and Windows 7 on their PC. Now all of a sudden, just because you can also access a desktop on a tablet and Metro on your PC (but don't have to), it's a huge problem. All of a sudden, choice is a problem.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 13:59   #2087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
What Microsoft strives for is and, not or.
...
All of a sudden, choice is a problem.
Where is the choice? If there is AND and not OR, there is no choice. Its an imposition. You can not choose OR, you are stuck with AND. The only way to choose AND, and have a choice, is using non-Microsoft utilities.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 14:16   #2088
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You can have strawberries and cream. Which means you can take or leave either, or both. If you can only have strawberries or cream, you have to forfeit one. And is always better than Or.

On my desktop I am mostly in desktop. But I can use Metro apps if I want. And.

On my tablet, I'm mostly in Metro, but I can use desktop if I want. And.

If I don't like the Start Screen, I can use a third-party Start Menu (even on a jailbroken Surface RT). 'cause Windows 8 is open, like, and Windows RT can be cracked open.

Or else there is Linux. It's an awesome OS and it's free. Knock yourself out.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 14:36   #2089
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It took me a while to place what felt wrong, but I think the start screen functions less well as a launcher for desktop applications simply because you cannot see what you already have open.

I was never actually fan the start menu but instead tended to carefully chosen desktop shortcuts, (which is not actually a million miles away from the way the start screen works). However, the difference is basically that the taskbar disappears so I can't see what I'm already doing.

And with regards choice: Choice is good, but when the two choices overlap in function, then integration is important. It's like a car that is also a boat. They exist, but nobody wants one because poor integration makes for a rubbish car and a rubbish boat. Most people would instead rather have both and have to get out of a good well designed car into a good well designed boat.

This is not to say Windows 8 is that bad, just what I think some of the issues are down to. Like I've mentioned before I hold a slightly odd "still pro-Windows 8 but vocally critical stance"

Also, I prefer my dictionary extension for firefox. It doesn't steal my horizontal resolution

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Old 18th Jan 2013, 14:51   #2090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
By not seeing past the flaws. Could integration be better? Sure, but give it some time and it will be.

You argue that this:

I more useful and user-friendly than this:
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
You argue that Metro and the desktop are poorly integrated:

Highly constrained multitasking!


/sarcasm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
What Microsoft strives for is and, not or. This is why the Surface RT has a desktop and keyboard as well as a Metro Touch interface.

I'm struggling to understand why people have a problem with two different interfaces on the same machine when they have been happily using the different interfaces of a CLI, Windows and various in-browser web-page interfaces on the same machine for years (remember when Windows ran on top of MS-DOS?), and work across different OSs on their desktop PC, their tablet and their mobile phone. Nobody had a problem using Metro on their phone and Windows 7 on their PC. Now all of a sudden, just because you can also access a desktop on a tablet and Metro on your PC (but don't have to), it's a huge problem. All of a sudden, choice is a problem.
The difference is you are operating within a single seamless environment. When you're using xp your using xp when you're on your phone you are using an O/S suited to the phone with a consistent user interface. Adding metro upsets any sense of consistency.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 14:55   #2091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfticket View Post
It took me a while to place what felt wrong, but I think the start screen functions less well as a launcher for desktop applications simply because you cannot see what you already have open.

I was never actually fan the start menu but instead tended to carefully chosen desktop shortcuts, (which is not actually a million miles away from the way the start screen works). However, the difference is basically that the taskbar disappears so I can't see what I'm already doing.

And with regards choice: Choice is good, but when the two choices overlap in function, then integration is important. It's like a car that is also a boat. They exist, but nobody wants one because poor integration makes for a rubbish car and a rubbish boat. Most people would instead rather have both and have to get out of a good well designed car into a good well designed boat.

This is not to say Windows 8 is that bad, just what I think some of the issues are down to. Like I've mentioned before I hold a slightly odd "still pro-Windows 8 but vocally critical stance"
Those are valid comments, although when you want to open something you generally already know what you're doing. And of course, you do have options like desktop shortcuts and stuff like RocketDock.

I think that integration will improve over time. It simply takes time for a product to evolve. Windows 7 did not start out life in 2009 that way. It started out as Windows 1, in 1985. That is 24 years of evolution, right there. Least we can do is give Windows 8 a few years to work out the kinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001 View Post
The difference is you are operating within a single seamless environment. When you're using xp your using xp when you're on your phone you are using an O/S suited to the phone with a consistent user interface. Adding metro upsets any sense of consistency.
Not really, because you have a choice where you dwell. On my desktop I stay in desktop (with all its multitasking). On the tablet I stay mostly in Metro. But if I find myself having to do something work-related, I can drop to desktop and do it.

As I said: Windows 7 took 24 years to come about. Give Windows 8 a few years, and then judge.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 14:58   #2092
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Quote:
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You can have strawberries and cream. Which means you can take or leave either, or both. If you can only have strawberries or cream, you have to forfeit one. And is always better than Or.

On my desktop I am mostly in desktop. But I can use Metro apps if I want. And.

On my tablet, I'm mostly in Metro, but I can use desktop if I want. And.

If I don't like the Start Screen, I can use a third-party Start Menu (even on a jailbroken Surface RT). 'cause Windows 8 is open, like, and Windows RT can be cracked open.

Or else there is Linux. It's an awesome OS and it's free. Knock yourself out.
Choice is good, advancing the limits of technology is good. Win8 isn't really doing anything, Choice is the options you get when you install Debian and it asks how you'd like to configure your computer, desktop, server, custom. Choice is picking your desktop environment and having it look exactly how you like it. Choice isn't hiding options you'd prefer people didn't use (quick launch bar, system restore points), choice isn't two badly glued together os's designed for two radically different devices.

Win8 is a mess of concepts half implemented based on the same flawed concept that MS have always worked to, that people want the same os on their phone or tablet that they want on their desktop.

I'm genuinely interested to see how it morphs to the next couple of generations but as it is Win8 is protohominid that might evolve to an clever ape but as it looks just now its just a likely to be another (computer) evolutionary dead end.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:02   #2093
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:04   #2094
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The argument could be [and probably has been] made that we shouldn't have to wait for them to iron out the kinks in apple maps and 'it'll get better in time' or 'just use google' somehow make it all ok...

wait... scratch that... replace 'apple maps' with 'windows 8' and 'google' with 'start8'

windows 8 is not perfect, it may or may not get better, but imo the good still outweighs the bad...



that said, i thnk this is shaping up to be the next apple/pc or pc/console type argument...
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:11   #2095
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It's just me, or you guys run around in circles ?
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:16   #2096
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Humans were an evolutionary dead end once. Look at us now.

Keep an open mind. You have nothing to lose. The panda may yet learn Kung-Fu.
I'm a (recovering) Linux user, patiences and an open mind are kind of prerequisites. Maybe this year will be the year of Linux on the desktop!

Nothing to lose indeed, I think the thing that bugs me most was I might have well went to 7 not 8 as it fits my current needs better when 10 or 11 comes along they might have managed to focus these concepts to a cohesive OS.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:25   #2097
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I'm a (recovering) Linux user, patiences and an open mind are kind of prerequisites. Maybe this year will be the year of Linux on the desktop!
Sorry, but that is not going to happen. I laugh at these "I will switch to OS X/Linux if they don't bring back the Start menu and get rid of this Metro crap" posts on the forums, especially considering how much more alien those operating systems are. Maybe not at first sight, but over time you will notice the differences or issues. Like no real support for Home/End key in OS X. Or there is no maximize button. There is a fullscreen button - but it supports only one display, the other displays will get grey background. Or no official TRIM support for anything but SSD sold by Apple. Or the "do this on console" solution to many problems in Linux, Unity in Ubuntu etc etc etc.

If they freak out from such small change as removal of Start menu and introduction of Start screen i cannot even imagine their reaction to a completely different OS.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:39   #2098
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Not really, because you have a choice where you dwell....

...As I said: Windows 7 took 24 years to come about. Give Windows 8 a few years, and then judge.

Its sort of like a choice of wearing a pair of skis to walk to the shops or wearing shoes. Its certainly a choice, but its not much of a choice. Had there been better integration then you would have a real choice.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 15:44   #2099
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Originally Posted by faugusztin View Post
Sorry, but that is not going to happen. I laugh at these "I will switch to OS X/Linux if they don't bring back the Start menu and get rid of this Metro crap" posts on the forums, especially considering how much more alien those operating systems are. Maybe not at first sight, but over time you will notice the differences or issues. Like no real support for Home/End key in OS X. Or there is no maximize button. There is a fullscreen button - but it supports only one display, the other displays will get grey background. Or no official TRIM support for anything but SSD sold by Apple. Or the "do this on console" solution to many problems in Linux, Unity in Ubuntu etc etc etc.

If they freak out from such small change as removal of Start menu and introduction of Start screen i cannot even imagine their reaction to a completely different OS.
Yeah I know, that was levity that failed to be transmitted via the web.

Its funny my mum has less trouble adapting to different os's than many users on this forum. I've mused before that Muggles (as Nexxo would say) generally have less issue with Linux (UI's) than windows power users. The power user is used to knowing where everything is and how everything works, when confronted with change they react with anger and an element of fear. Happens every time MS fiddle with the core of Windows or in this case even the periphery.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 16:14   #2100
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Originally Posted by theshadow2001 View Post
Its sort of like a choice of wearing a pair of skis to walk to the shops or wearing shoes. Its certainly a choice, but its not much of a choice. Had there been better integration then you would have a real choice.
Have you looked out the window recently? Looks like skis may come in handy real soon.

In computing, the weather is changing too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg View Post
Its funny my mum has less trouble adapting to different os's than many users on this forum. I've mused before that Muggles (as Nexxo would say) generally have less issue with Linux (UI's) than windows power users. The power user is used to knowing where everything is and how everything works, when confronted with change they react with anger and an element of fear. Happens every time MS fiddle with the core of Windows or in this case even the periphery.
I think that you're quite right.
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arghhhh, consumer preview, for the win.. dows 8, marmite, win 7 > win 8, win 8 > win 7, windows 8, windows 8 arm, windows 8 beta, windows 8 drivers, windows 8 preview

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