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Old 30th Jan 2013, 01:02   #121
VipersGratitude
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I'm not following your reasoning, care to explain?
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 04:32   #122
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Originally Posted by eddie_dane View Post
Even later with Andrew Jackson..
Stop it - you'll have me crying trails of tears.
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 13:54   #123
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Stop it - you'll have me crying trails of tears.
That wasn't what I was thinking at the time, but I LOL'd
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 18:39   #124
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People seem to forget that some of us still live in places where wild animal attacks are not only possible but common. I shot nine coyotes last year, and we lost at least three dogs, if not more to them. A few are up for debate on cause of death, we think they were poisoned with coyote bait (which is why guns are universally preferred to poison out here.) There's not many places in the city where you can get a yard full of coyotes these days, but I have lots of neighbors out here with the same problem. We tend to work together, as the coyote population is staggering and the game wardens have called for more hunting of coyotes not only for the safety of humans but also ecological balance. We were talking about that right to life, well, I believe I have a right to defend myself from roving packs of coyotes.

Further on that claim, we have another issue here that you may not have. What's your average police response time? Mine is 30-45 minutes. It took that long the day Asher stopped breathing and his heart stopped to get an ambulance here, though the volunteer fire department was a bit faster. This isn't a city, or even a town. It's an unincorporated community with no fire, police, medical or emergency services, save a volunteer fire department. I'll bet you can guess what the county sheriff's office has for advice for all of us living out here. Yup, get the biggest gun you can afford, know how to shoot it, know how to load it and clean it, practice often, and if someone encroaches on your property with the intent to steal or do harm aim for central mass and go for the kill. You will not be prosecuted for shooting someone with the clear intent to steal or do injury. Alabama property law is what's known as "castle" property laws, wherein a man's home is his castle and it is his sovereign right to defend it in a lethal manner.

An interesting aside, though, since everyone wants to talk about death rates. I live in the county with the #1 rate of preventable death.

http://m.countyhealthrankings.org/alabama/walker

http://www.mountaineagle.com/view/fu...last-in-health

Guess what folks-it ain't guns. It's our piss-poor health system that kills more than 90% of those. It's that we have a high poverty rate and unemployment, that we have no high-end jobs other than suing each other, and that Drummond Coal is based here, and they're one of the most horrible and unethical companies in the world to work for, because they don't mind throwing away their miners' lives in the least. Traffic accidents and general stupidity round out the rest. Guns here are for hunting and defense. We made national news when someone blew their husband up on his riding lawnmower instead of shooting him. http://articles.latimes.com/1999/jul/29/news/mn-60726 So if a near 100% gun ownership rate works here for us, why does it not work elsewhere? Surely the problem lies with the person, and not with the tool? We find they put meat on the table very well-especially for those of lower income who might not be able to afford high-quality food-but we don't generally go wave them at each other. Why? Good damn chance the other guy has one too. It's an effective deterrent, strangely enough.
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 20:27   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayinBlack View Post
Further on that claim, we have another issue here that you may not have. What's your average police response time? Mine is 30-45 minutes. It took that long the day Asher stopped breathing and his heart stopped to get an ambulance here, though the volunteer fire department was a bit faster. This isn't a city, or even a town. It's an unincorporated community with no fire, police, medical or emergency services, save a volunteer fire department. I'll bet you can guess what the county sheriff's office has for advice for all of us living out here. Yup, get the biggest gun you can afford, know how to shoot it, know how to load it and clean it, practice often, and if someone encroaches on your property with the intent to steal or do harm aim for central mass and go for the kill. You will not be prosecuted for shooting someone with the clear intent to steal or do injury. Alabama property law is what's known as "castle" property laws, wherein a man's home is his castle and it is his sovereign right to defend it in a lethal manner.
We have castle laws here as well, and there was a recent case in which a man shot and killed burglars on his property. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury, which found that he acted within his rights under the castle doctrine. For what it's worth, the author of the castle doctrine legislation disagreed with the decision, and in his opinion the law was applied inappropriately.

Out of curiosity, what is the demographic makeup of your area (population, economy, crime rate, etc)? Based on your description, it doesn't sound like there would be much crime in your area to begin with. With respect to that, while the desire for firearms to defend against wild animals is a perfectly valid request (if I'm not mistaken even places in Europe allow for exceptions in rural areas), I have to believe that you knew the risk of wildlife encounters (not to mention the lack of rapid emergency response) when you decided to live there.

I'm still not certain that argument holds water, though I admit I don't know a lot about your area of the world. I live in a suburban area of Houston, and we still have plenty of wildlife here. The local college has posted signs warning people not to disturb that alligators that might be resting next to their cars, but that doesn't make me feel unsafe. Your area may be much different, though. Consider Alaska, where it's not uncommon for moose to stroll into grocery stores, and the culture revolves much more around outdoor activities. From what I understand through conversations with friends who live there, many people do in fact carry a gun to protect against wildlife.
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 22:08   #126
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I'll have to start getting pics of coyotes and wild dogs then. My dad's trail cams actually snapped a cougar. Our property borders a protected wilderness area, and protected normally means overpopulated with carnivores here. I should think having to shoot nine coyotes in a year is considered to be wilder than where you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_County,_Alabama

http://recordspedia.com/Alabama/Walk...ime-Statistics

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...r-Alabama.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitman Walker County is mentioned by name here, amazingly.

Lots and lots of crime, but only 9 murders 2001-2008. They were:

The abovequoted high explosives (C4 and primer cord)

http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/02/alab...king_boot.html A hiking boot (seriously)

http://www.mountaineagle.com/view/fu...or-2007-murder Drowning

http://www.mountaineagle.com/view/fu...der-conviction There's a gun crime, finally.

http://www.mountaineagle.com/printer_friendly/9384232 This guy's just stupid.

Of the 28,364 households in Walker County, the vast majority have guns. So why do we hear so little about gun deaths here? Because it's really not an issue here. It's becoming more of one, but that's tied to the very, very brisk drug market here.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...41642243,d.eWU

Most detailed statistics I could find. Have fun, but I still notice that gun death/injury is well below national average, with a very high crime rate and a very high gun ownership rate. There's also a staggering dearth of doctors available, and they psychiatrist number is 1/3 of the national average per capita. We have the guns, but by and large we're not turning them on each other. I wonder why?
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 22:50   #127
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Because you all live too far apart to be able to actually hit each other.

Joking aside, you essentially live rurally: you need a shotgun there. It's a tool. But in a (sub)urban environment we don't need guns like we don't need big 4x4 vehicles.
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 23:06   #128
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And you need a shotgun. Not handguns or semi-automatics.

It would be truly incredible if a rural area had an above average crime rate.
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 03:02   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayinBlack View Post
We have the guns, but by and large we're not turning them on each other. I wonder why?
Judging from the violent crime statistics, it seems like you're turning your guns on each other, it's just that few people are pulling the trigger. So while firearm-related deaths may be low, widespread access to firearms doesn't appear to be the cure to high crime rates that some in the gun lobby would have us believe.

However, given that you do appear to live in quite a rural area I will point to my earlier comment that even in parts of Europe that have strict gun laws, there are exceptions for people living in rural areas.

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It would be truly incredible if a rural area had an above average crime rate.
According to one of the sources Kayin provided, Jasper County's violent crime rate has been higher than the national average for every year since 2004; property crime has been much higher, even doubling the national average in some years. This makes me curious about the last statement in his previous post - lots of guns doesn't seem to deter much crime.
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 04:04   #130
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i wonder if anyone here has been directly, and personally, affected by gun violence? and if so, how it has affected your position on the issue of firearms regulation/bans? i'm particularly interested in replies from those currently living in the u.s.
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 19:30   #131
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another bit of info in my bid for your minds (and hearts) from the harvard school of public health:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fi...isperceptions/
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