News Wine looks to bring Windows apps to Android

[Gareth Halfacree]

Not clear how the ISA issue will be solved.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/20...wine-android/1

[BLC]

I would have to question why you'd even want this... The big benefit I can see is being able to run desktop office suites - hello Microsoft Office - on tablet hardware. For pretty much all other applications you'd want on a tablet there's probably an alternative already available. I've no idea why you'd want to run traditional desktop applications on a phone; even the Galaxy Note simply wouldn't have a big enough screen. The only way they'll realistically get around the fact that Windows software is x86 only is by emulation of an x86 CPU; as the article mentions, and as I've experienced myself, that carries massive performance implications - you won't be running MS Office on your Android tablet if it's emulating x86.

Restricting it to x86 Android would work, but few commercial products use x86 hardware with Android. It might be handy for those few that do run such devices, but is it honestly worth the effort?

[XXAOSICXX]

gareth... " they are having to emulate a full x86 processor on an ARM chip optimise for low power draw in a mobile device" <- optimised

[Guinevere]

Originally Posted by BLC

The only way they'll realistically get around the fact that Windows software is x86 only is by emulation of an x86 CPU

No, they're talking about replicating the API layer and not the hardware layer. So a 'standard' compiled app that is basically a list of calls to standard windows APi calls will work 'as is' and each call will be directed to a re-written equivalent.

But without any ability to run x86 code then their compatibility list is going to be limited.

But it's a start, and of course an extension of it will be to (potentially) run x86 windows apps on RT.

But lets not underestimate the amount of work it is to get even a subset of the required APIs re-written and stable. MS have not exactly been frugal when it comes to releasing new APIs.

[Rhydian]

If I had a £1 for everything I didn't understand here, I would be able to take a holiday.

[faugusztin]

If i have to guess, they are aiming for stuff like this. That is, desktop Windows applications running on ARM.

[RichCreedy]

what I can't understand, is if windows stuff is bad enough not to choose it in the first place, why emulate it?

[Snips]

" The big benefit I can see is being able to run desktop office suites - hello Microsoft Office - on tablet hardware."

Actually, it runs perfectly well on my Surface Tablet. So your point is?

[Shirty]

Originally Posted by Rhydian

If I had a £1 for everything I didn't understand here, I would be able to take a holiday.

This, but replace £1 with 5p

[Gareth Halfacree]

Originally Posted by XXAOSICXX

gareth... " they are having to emulate a full x86 processor on an ARM chip optimise for low power draw in a mobile device" <- optimised

The runaway 'd' has been found and returned to his rightful place - ta!

[SchizoFrog]

I would have thought there would be a much bigger demand for running iOS and Android apps on WP8. The biggest downfall of WP8 is the lack of apps that are available to the other two OS's. It would be awesome if you could bring the best of iOS and Android apps to WP8.

[Instagib]

If all that comes from this is that I can run the full football manager 2012 on my phone, I would be a very happy chappy!

[BLC]

Originally Posted by Guinevere

No, they're talking about replicating the API layer and not the hardware layer. So a 'standard' compiled app that is basically a list of calls to standard windows APi calls will work 'as is' and each call will be directed to a re-written equivalent.

But without any ability to run x86 code then their compatibility list is going to be limited.

But it's a start, and of course an extension of it will be to (potentially) run x86 windows apps on RT.

But lets not underestimate the amount of work it is to get even a subset of the required APIs re-written and stable. MS have not exactly been frugal when it comes to releasing new APIs.

That's sort of my point; for anything that's specific to the x86 ISA - whether that's the application binary or the APIs it calls - you're going to be SOL unless you can reverse-engineer that API and implement your own version of it, or wrap those calls to a Linux/Android ARM equivalent (if one exists).

Originally Posted by Snips

" The big benefit I can see is being able to run desktop office suites - hello Microsoft Office - on tablet hardware."

Actually, it runs perfectly well on my Surface Tablet. So your point is?

Quite...

Meanwhile in the real world, compared to the number of Android tablets and iPads out there the Surface doesn't even warrant mentioning (see http://rcpmag.com/articles/2013/01/3...registers.aspx). That isn't a criticism of the hardware or the software, it's a cold hard commercial reality.

[PCBuilderSven]

...require developers to recompile their Windows applications for ARM before they would be compatible with the Wine shim.

With Microsoft pushing towards ARM themselves with Windows RT, developers may have to do this anyway. If they continue pushing ARM I wouldn't be surprised if Windows 9 (or a later version) allow the full version of Windows to run on ARM. The power of new ARM chips means they could easily power (low-mid range) laptops relatively soon.

[Nexxo]

Originally Posted by BLC

Quite...

Meanwhile in the real world, compared to the number of Android tablets and iPads out there the Surface doesn't even warrant mentioning (see http://rcpmag.com/articles/2013/01/3...registers.aspx). That isn't a criticism of the hardware or the software, it's a cold hard commercial reality.

It's been only three months of a poorly distributed product going against a really well-distributed one that has had nearly three years head start. Give it a chance to catch up.

Originally Posted by PCBuilderSven

With Microsoft pushing towards ARM themselves with Windows RT, developers may have to do this anyway. If they continue pushing ARM I wouldn't be surprised if Windows 9 (or a later version) allow the full version of Windows to run on ARM. The power of new ARM chips means they could easily power (low-mid range) laptops relatively soon.

Windows RT is the full version of Windows. It is just not unlocked. But that may still happen after all. When it's jailbroken you realise how it can do more or less everything Windows 8 can.

[Gareth Halfacree]

Originally Posted by Nexxo

When it's jailbroken you realise how it can do more or less everything Windows 8 can.

Except, y'know, run Windows applications. Which, let's face it, is sort of what people want from Windows. It's one of the few complaints against Linux on the desktop that remains valid: if I can't run my existing applications, why would I make the move? (I mean, not me I, 'cos I run Linux already. The Royal I. So to speak.)

[BLC]

Originally Posted by Nexxo

It's been only three months of a poorly distributed product going against a really well-distributed one that has had nearly three years head start. Give it a chance to catch up.

My post was in response to a claim that running MS Office on tablets is a moot point because it's available on WinRT. Whoopee-do, what about the overwhelming majority of tablet owners that don't have a Surface RT? My point was more that there would be an awful lot of people interested in running MS Office on Android or iOS tablets, as they are by far the most widespread tablets on the market.

It wasn't a criticism of the Surface or Win8/WinRT. In fact the Surface hardware looks pretty damn sweet; both the RT and Pro versions.

[Snips]

So you're moaning at Microsoft for not porting it's Microsoft Office software onto a none Microsoft touch OS while it's busy developing and doing a damn fine job at it, it's own touch OS?

Good luck with that!

[Nexxo]

Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree

Except, y'know, run Windows applications.

It does --as long as they are ported to ARM. I realise that there aren't many yet, but the list is growing.

(And as long as it has got Quake and Rainmeter in that list, who cares! )

[Gareth Halfacree]

Originally Posted by Nexxo

It does --as long as they are ported to ARM. I realise that there aren't many yet, but the list is growing.

And how many of those are closed-source, commercial Windows packages? You know, the ones that are Windows exclusive, or Windows and Mac exclusive? Nobody would stick with an operating system because it runs Quake - especially as everything from a Texas Instruments calculator upwards can run Quake - but because it runs the full-fat version of Microsoft Office, or Adobe Photoshop, or Sage Line 50.

I specifically said "Windows applications" in my post, not "cross-platform, open-source applications." When they are available for Windows RT, I'll accept that it can "do everything Windows 8 can do." But the fact that it can be made to run OpenTDD does not invalidate my point.