Shamelessly nicked from Digg... http://money.uk.msn.com/student/fundingandloans/jobs/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5281595 Reading this has enfuriated me. Why is it that everything nowadays is measured by wealth? I appreciate this article is written about 'student finance', but if that's the case it shouldn't be so damned critical of everyone who does a degree. The University experience is enriching in so many ways. God, this stuff annoys me. Hopefully I'll form a more coherant argument when I'm less angry.
I'm going to pseudo-quote you're last line. People don't realise that it's only the people that don't take Uni seriously that aren't going to benefit, the Universities don't really care, they're in it for the prestige and money they just want more people to come so they can get paid. If you take uni seriously and work hard at it then you get one hell of a lot of experience, especially if you do a sandwich degree as you gain that extra year worth of experience for a job and it can help you to decide what you want to do. I, for instance, went to do a Computer Games Programming degree originally, but I decided about 3 months before I started that it wasn't for me (due to lack of art skills), and went the Software Engineering route instead. That has opened my eyes up to what I really want to do, hence why I'm now applying for driver development positions and I'm studying my arse off to get an awesome transcript from uni.
What you really learn from Uni cannot be measured in monetary values imo. Uni teaches you how to learn in high pressure environments, work to deadlines, develop public speaking skills and personal conduct. I don't care what anyone else says, I would not be able to do my consultancy roll at the age of 21 if I hadn't been to university.l Does it mean that we are smarter, harder working, more employable? Probably!! Does it mean we can do the job we apply for to a better level? Definitely.
Sums it up tbh. I'm not sure how many medical, law or engineering jobs you could get without a degree. Then again, those are some of the hardest courses to do, so fair enough.
I'll agree with Mother-Gooser. It's all in what you take from it. Granted, there is a MASSIVE pool of people who go to university because they feel or are pressured to think it's the right thing to do, and don't really care - but for those who do, there's a lot to gain in terms of knowledge and perspectives. It's sadly true though, that university has lost it's once high-regarded prestige. It's true - a bachelor's isn't going to get you that far ahead of a journeyman (except you might get a cushy office job over plumbing, if that's what you want). A lot of high-status jobs require at least graduate school, stuff like law, medicine, architecture etc. So, if your $30k tuition will buy you the same income of a journeyman who gets paid to learn, why bother? I believe it boils down to what you want to do. If you want to be a doctor, lawyer, teacher or something, you don't have that much of a choice. I think it's really sad though. University used to be something to be proud of. The fact you got in warranted something special. Now it's just like another 4 years of high school until you apply for a Masters.
that made me mad!!!! i am in a university so i can be more useful for me, my family and friends and for my country, if i wanted to do the other easier rout then i would get a job then emigrate to another country, NO!!!!, i want to get knowledge, experience and be very useful and create things that are beyond the capabilities of people that don't have my knowledge, even if it takes me my life to pay my dept so be it, even if i have to do a part time job at the same time that i am in uni so be it, i refuse to be another unemployed and parasitic person that sucks the blood of the middle class while the high classes show the middle finger at the government saying the are poor and drive a big ass expensive car to take their "social secuty'ed" kids to school, i want to advance my country out of the stone age and i want to pay my taxes. edit: and if someone says "exercise your rights and vote" i can only say this, you at least have some good choices.
One of the bigger problems we have over here is due to Blair (GRRRRRRR): Basically, Labour wanted more people to get a degree so they made it easier to get the funding for it so people who couldn't normally afford it would then get a place, nice idea, but that also means alot of wasters go to uni as well. This in turn devalued the degree, and this has meant there is a surplus of over educated (on paper at least) in the country. THEN, when labour realised this, they introduced tuition fee's (I don't care what reasons they really gave for this) but you could get them from the local LEA anyway deppending on the parent's income. THEN they realised it was making a fair amount of money, not bad, but they still had the devalued degree problem, so now it costs even more to go to uni (and tutition fee's now are paid with another loan (not a grant) so the student has even more to pay back) SO we are back into the situation that Uni is now only available to people who can really afford it (and there are still wasters in there too). But atm we are stuck with too many qualified people and not enough jobs that require the skills of a graduate.
My degree was a total waste of time (2 years) and student loads (knocking £7000 now) I got it in computer something or other. Cant even remember now. Now I run a bike shop and only use a pc to check the shop emails.
For every article saying "a degree is a waste of time" there are tenfold more laying out the reasons a degree is an excellent use of 3-4 years of your life. I'm currently at Glasgow Uni studying Software Engineering, just finished my third year (we do four here) and I've got employers desperate to show me around their impressive establishments and show me all the 'cool stuff' I could be doing if I came to work for them. Even if that wasn't the case, if I didn't have a degree I wouldn't have the qualifications to even apply for a development/tech position in industry, or follow up on my other consideration at the moment, becoming a Teacher. So I guess my degree is very vocational (like law, medicine, accounting), so might be considered a special case, but I've never thought of anyone's degree being a "waste of time", it's pretty hard to not learn anything in three years that won't help you later in life. Cheers, Paolo
Experience Like people have said above, it's what you make of it. It costs a lot because, well, duh, they have to PAY the lecturers and maintain the buildings, site, materials, etc. I'm about to go to uni in september. I've finished A-levels, save for 3 exams. And believe me, I do NOT feel ready to go into a professional job of any kind. I barely feel experienced enough to run a hotdog stand. It's true that you won't put your degree to direct use. Naturally. 95% of people, or something like it, walk out of uni and never get a job that uses their degree - not even remotely the same field. But, the fact that you have a degree at all - as opposed to being a 19-yr-old nobody with a few A-levels- opens loads of doors. Look at the army, for an example. All of the lower-tier, low-pay jobs require A-levels. All of the high-paying jobs instantly become accessible if (and only if) you have a degree. Why? Because it shows you have the commitment to last 3 years in an intense, independent, self-sufficient working environment. I'm off to do philosophy. People keep saying, "Is that even useful for anything? What job will you do?" My answer is, whatever job I want. I'm doing it because I enjoy it, for the experience. That's all there is to it.
Then you're one of the people who has devalued MY degree. You clearly had no intention of using your degree, you can't even remember what you took it in! You should have taken that 7grand loan and bought stock. Instead you're one of the faceless millions of people who go to the worst universities in the country to get token degrees in their chosen field, and never use them, whilst the rest of us get into the best universities we can and work out fingers off to get a good degree to find its not worth the paper as soon as we leave the building. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Not alot, at least not PROPER engineering, as for medical? You have no chance of becoming a doctor without a degree. But as im reading on that link all it makes note of, are degrees like art, law and psychology which in my eyes are micky mouse degrees pretty much. And because those guys are getting paid less than they thought, then that means everyone who attens uni is getting paid less/getting a bum deal and thats total bs tbh And thats another thing, why the hell do people do degrees in say mathematics or engineering (or any field in general) then work somewhere totally unrelated?!?!?! Then have the audacity to say "oh well my degree isnt worth it because I work a mc donalds now" well no ****ing ****! As someone pointed out above theres alot of people who do this and its those people that skew the numbers.
Go on, then, pull the other one. Calling Art, Law, and Psychology "Mickey Mouse degrees" demonstrates that you clearly have never studied Art, Law, or Psychology at the university level. Each one has its challenges. And just like any other degree, each one is worth as much as you put into it. For every Art graduate flipping burgers, there is one curating a museum. -monkey
I could be wrong (not looking at university for another 2 years) but can an engineer even get chartered without a degree?
AFAIK, you have to have a Masters degree and several years of real-world experience to get chartered status in the UK.
My economics professor (Larry Smith)is a president for a corporate-economic advisory firm and he has been consistently telling us that our graduating degrees will not amount to much if you graduated any time after 2001. He explains that too large of a percentage of degree-holders of the modern era are pursuing established careers, flooding the economy with more supply than qualified demand. He's also noted the value superiority of skills and field experience consistently over academic achievement. Hint: graduating with just a college diploma in computer networking is a sweet spot. Add Cisco Network Certification and you'll be very well-paid in your field--some Cisco-qualified networking professionals in my building are paid hefty sums for their contracts (in the CAD$60,000 range, annually).
A friend of mine did fine art, she left and became a pole dancer for the short term to get a fair amount of money in a short space of time (she did it at uni too to help fund all the materials). Now she's a p0rn actress....you don't need a degree to take it in the A$$.
I think thats a bit harsh mate considering you don't know the whole pic. I spent 5 years pervoius to that getting city & guilds in autocad, int and adv gnvq's in IT and time doing other small courses so I could get a job in it. But after spending countless pounds and hours trailing round every place I could to get a job only to be told im sorry you have no experience. "How can I get experience if you wont employ me"? i shout. When I did get the Web Design job i craved, the tosser of an owner, was all for getting more clients than we could handle, but would never sign any jobs off therefore never made any money and made us all redundant, I was on the dole for 2 weeks (ive never not worked since i was 13). Thats when the cycle shop manager job came up as its hard to support a family on £45ish a week dole. I am off for an interview for a 2nd job just so I can scrape a living. So to sum it up I got sick and tok the first available option, if you get your degree and find a job straight away good for you, but don't do on like I didnt try when you dont even know me. //rant Im currently trying to write my own CMS so that I can start my own business so then the degree will be used so nerrrr.
Yea, I thought it came across a bit personal, and for that I apologise. It was not directed at you, per se. You can get experience by taking a course that provides an industrial placement, which I found to be of the UTMOST relevance to my course, and really instilled in me the feeling that this was the industry i WANTED to be in. Good luck with everything!
It is even more annoying when you see graduate roles advertised and they turn you down because you haven't got any experience. hmmmm, can you spell irony? Can you? Exactly, I didn't think you could! (That is when the shoe is removed and hurled across the room at the interviewer).
