bit-tech.net

Go Back   bit-tech.net Forums > Misc > Serious

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th May 2017, 16:22   #3221
Nexxo
Whatever's Geek.
 
Nexxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 31,303
Nexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming SaiyanNexxo is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Perhaps the US should instate a Trump travel ban and stop him from coming back.
__________________
In memory of Kidmod-Southpaw (1997 - 2014), Teelzebub (1955 - 2016) and Waynio (1978 - 2016)

"We are the music makers; we are the dreamers of dreams"


Current project: Metaversa 02 Ada.
Nexxo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2017, 17:31   #3222
Yadda
Vegan Sandwich
 
Yadda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,150
Yadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
Perhaps the US should instate a Trump travel ban and stop him from coming back.
Definitely. "Donald's Bigly World Tour".
__________________
Lost a Duff, gained a Charlie.

i5 4690k @ 4.6GHz / ASRock Z97m OC Formula mATX / 2x8GB Crucial Tactical DDR3 @ 2200MHz C10 / EVGA GTX 780 @ 1200/6400MHz / BX100 250GB SSD / Seagate 2TB SSHD / Nepton 240m AIO / EVGA 600B PSU / Corsair Carbide Air 240 / Win10 Home / 1080p monitor / Logitech MOMO wheel
Yadda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2017, 19:06   #3223
RedFlames
...is a figment of your imagination
 
RedFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The northern wastes of Geordieland
Posts: 7,104
RedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadda View Post
Definitely. "Donald's Bigly World Tour".
Coming soon to an Ecuadorian embassy near you...
__________________
Why are you still reading this? The post is over. Go Home.

RedFlames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2017, 22:38   #3224
Yadda
Vegan Sandwich
 
Yadda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,150
Yadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming SaiyanYadda is a Super Spamming Saiyan
My day is made - the Pope asked Mrs Donald if she feeds him lots of cake, before they both laughed together.

Did the Pope just troll Trump over his weight? Trolled by the Pope!
__________________
Lost a Duff, gained a Charlie.

i5 4690k @ 4.6GHz / ASRock Z97m OC Formula mATX / 2x8GB Crucial Tactical DDR3 @ 2200MHz C10 / EVGA GTX 780 @ 1200/6400MHz / BX100 250GB SSD / Seagate 2TB SSHD / Nepton 240m AIO / EVGA 600B PSU / Corsair Carbide Air 240 / Win10 Home / 1080p monitor / Logitech MOMO wheel
Yadda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 15:50   #3225
Anfield
Mod Master
 
Anfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,254
Anfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
A US federal appeals court has refused to lift a temporary block on President Donald Trump's revised travel ban.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40053413

Court document for those who want more details: (pdf warning)
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...rcuit-IRAP.pdf
__________________
R7 1800X, ASRock X370 Taichi, 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 DDR4, ASUS Strix 1080TI OC, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro, 4TB WD Black, EVGA T2 1KW, Lian Li PC-O9WX, EK Supremacy Evo, EK-XRES 140 DDC 3.2, EK-CoolStream PE 360, Ducky Shine 6 (Brown Switches), Logitech G402, AOC U3477PQU (34" 21:9 ftw)
Anfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 16:42   #3226
Disequilibria
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 561
Disequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Those decisions will get reversed in the supreme court. The president is granted plenary power to ban any class of aliens most of this decision is based on woolly argumentation that rhetoric from his campaign counts not the wording of the executive order.

I think it is a stupid ban but legally i don't see a reason to block it.

If it stands it will become precedent and could be used to argue that non us citizens have constitutional rights, for example with what this rules about the establishment clause.

I don't like his ban but I like judicial tyranny a lot less.
__________________
| Core i5 2500k | GTX 570 | Asus P8P67-m | 8GB Vengeance | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO | Corsair 650TX |

Last edited by Disequilibria; 26th May 2017 at 18:01.
Disequilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 20:52   #3227
KayinBlack
Toxophile
 
KayinBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jasper, AL
Posts: 5,350
KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.KayinBlack is definitely a rep cheat.
Under our constitution, noncitizens do have constitutional rights. Hence why they can attend our schools, etc. In fact, the judgement that ruled that was about kids going to school.

I don't see a problem with it. They aren't responsible for what their parents do, they just need an education.

Supreme court won't reverse this seeing as to what Donald's said in the past about keeping all the Muslims out. It'll be seen as inherent bias (like these past rulings) and no ban can be made on basis of religion. That plenary power does not extend further than the letter of the Constitution. If he hadn't been so vocal during the election, there might have been a ghost of a chance.
__________________
I don't feed the trolls...

PC: Intel i7-4830K, ASUS X79 Deluxe, 64GB GEiL Golden Dragon 1333MHz RAM, EVGA nVidia Titan Black 6GB Hydro Copper, Blu-Ray burner, 4x250GB Samsung 840 EVO in RAID 10, Corsair AX860i.
KayinBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 22:31   #3228
yodasarmpit
No longer the other Brett.
 
yodasarmpit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: West Lothian
Posts: 11,082
yodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyanyodasarmpit is a Super Spamming Saiyan
One good thing, about watching Trump, is that I don't feel just so bad about the idiotic outcome of the Brexit vote.

No matter how bad that was/is, its not as bad as having Trump in charge
__________________
The Rt. Hon. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson - "Ping Pong is coming home"
yodasarmpit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 22:52   #3229
Anfield
Mod Master
 
Anfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,254
Anfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming Saiyan
And when you think he is done embarrassing himself and will take a bit of a break after the latest accident? brainfart? Trump moment? he just goes and does it again...

Source in german, sorry:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...a-1149282.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...a-1149336.html

Anyway, its Trump bitching to EU leaders about how its unfair that Germany exports cars and that Germany doesn't have a trade deficit...
__________________
R7 1800X, ASRock X370 Taichi, 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 DDR4, ASUS Strix 1080TI OC, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro, 4TB WD Black, EVGA T2 1KW, Lian Li PC-O9WX, EK Supremacy Evo, EK-XRES 140 DDC 3.2, EK-CoolStream PE 360, Ducky Shine 6 (Brown Switches), Logitech G402, AOC U3477PQU (34" 21:9 ftw)
Anfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 22:58   #3230
RedFlames
...is a figment of your imagination
 
RedFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The northern wastes of Geordieland
Posts: 7,104
RedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield View Post
Anyway, its Trump bitching to EU leaders about how its unfair that Germany exports cars and that Germany doesn't have a trade deficit...
And how hard it is to get planning permission for golf resorts.
__________________
Why are you still reading this? The post is over. Go Home.

RedFlames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 23:17   #3231
Anfield
Mod Master
 
Anfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,254
Anfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming SaiyanAnfield is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Trump strategy to winning bigly:
Say so much crazy stuff the world only remembers half of it
__________________
R7 1800X, ASRock X370 Taichi, 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance 3000 DDR4, ASUS Strix 1080TI OC, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro, 4TB WD Black, EVGA T2 1KW, Lian Li PC-O9WX, EK Supremacy Evo, EK-XRES 140 DDC 3.2, EK-CoolStream PE 360, Ducky Shine 6 (Brown Switches), Logitech G402, AOC U3477PQU (34" 21:9 ftw)
Anfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2017, 23:25   #3232
RedFlames
...is a figment of your imagination
 
RedFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The northern wastes of Geordieland
Posts: 7,104
RedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield View Post
Trump strategy to winning bigly:
Say so much crazy stuff the world only remembers half of it
It just keeps coming at you so fast. You don't have time to dwell on just how awful his latest outburst is because your brain is only just starting to process it when the next one comes along.
__________________
Why are you still reading this? The post is over. Go Home.

RedFlames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2017, 00:49   #3233
RedFlames
...is a figment of your imagination
 
RedFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The northern wastes of Geordieland
Posts: 7,104
RedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming Saiyan
and right on cue...

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin
__________________
Why are you still reading this? The post is over. Go Home.

RedFlames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2017, 00:58   #3234
cjmUK
Old git.
 
cjmUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,489
cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disequilibria View Post
I don't like his ban but I like judicial tyranny a lot less.
Remind me again about the US system... IIRC there are supposed to be 3 equal branches of government, designed to keep each other in check, right? And they are the Legislative (House/Senate), the Executive (Trump and his minions) and... what was the third again? Oh, that's right... the judiciary.

So it looks like the system is working, to an extent. The Legislative branch have failed to curb the excesses of the Trump family and Goldman Sachs (because they see an opportunity to get away with so much under the orange man-child's watch), but the Judiciary are independent (just about) - and have decided that what The Donald and his colleagues have said is a likely an indication of how they actually see things.

So after 2 years of talking about a Muslim ban, and then they try to enact a law that disproportionately impacts on Muslims, various courts around the US have come to the same conclusion... that the bans are likely to be specifically targeted at Muslims and thus are illegal. I'm really not sure what the controversy is.
__________________
FD Define R4, i7 6700K [with Thermalright HR-01+/Noctua NF-P12], ASUS ROG MAXIMUS HERO VIII, 18GB RAM, MSI R9 280X
cjmUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2017, 12:04   #3235
Disequilibria
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 561
Disequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayinBlack View Post
Under our constitution, noncitizens do have constitutional rights. Hence why they can attend our schools, etc. In fact, the judgement that ruled that was about kids going to school.

I don't see a problem with it. They aren't responsible for what their parents do, they just need an education.

Supreme court won't reverse this seeing as to what Donald's said in the past about keeping all the Muslims out. It'll be seen as inherent bias (like these past rulings) and no ban can be made on basis of religion. That plenary power does not extend further than the letter of the Constitution. If he hadn't been so vocal during the election, there might have been a ghost of a chance.
Sorry should have been more precise.
Legal residents do and illegals on american soil do. What this does is pretend that constitutional rights apply to non citizens abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK View Post
Remind me again about the US system... IIRC there are supposed to be 3 equal branches of government, designed to keep each other in check, right? And they are the Legislative (House/Senate), the Executive (Trump and his minions) and... what was the third again? Oh, that's right... the judiciary.

So it looks like the system is working, to an extent. The Legislative branch have failed to curb the excesses of the Trump family and Goldman Sachs (because they see an opportunity to get away with so much under the orange man-child's watch), but the Judiciary are independent (just about) - and have decided that what The Donald and his colleagues have said is a likely an indication of how they actually see things.

So after 2 years of talking about a Muslim ban, and then they try to enact a law that disproportionately impacts on Muslims, various courts around the US have come to the same conclusion... that the bans are likely to be specifically targeted at Muslims and thus are illegal. I'm really not sure what the controversy is.
Because judges are there to interpret the text of the order itself and whether that order is constitutional or legal under US law. The basis that they are using the establishment clause to apply to non citizens not resident or in US territory is incorrect. There is also precedent for banning certain classes of aliens going back to WW2 and also just after WW1.

Saying that the 3 branches of government are there to keep each other in check is an incomplete answer. It is not the job of the judiciary to decide what is good or bad policy. The judiciary is there to decide whether the execution or the text of a law is Legal, which keeps congress from passing unconstitutional law and the executive from executing illegal orders under the US law. The constitutional framers were creating a sovereign nation and It's a touchstone of sovereignty to be able to exclude whomever they wish for any reason, article 1 section 8 clause 4 grants congress plenary power to establish uniform rules for naturalisation, by establishing rules for naturalisation you have to be establishing rules for how people can not be naturalised.


It's a stupid policy but it would be the place of congress to remove the presidents powers under 50 USC section 21

Quote:
Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed on the part of the United States, toward the aliens who become so liable; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which are found necessary in the premises and for the public safety.
or USC 1182(f)

Quote:
(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.
And the following judgement to be overturned

Turner v. Williams, 194 U.S. 279 (1904)

Quote:
Congress has power to exclude aliens from, and to prescribe the conditions on which they may enter, the United States; to establish regulations for deporting aliens who have illegally entered, and to commit the enforcements of such conditions and regulations to executive officers. Deporting, pursuant to law, an alien who has illegally entered the United States does not deprive him of his liberty without due process of law.

The Alien Immigration Act of March, 1903, 32 Stat. 1213, does not violate the federal Constitution, nor are its provisions as to the exclusion of aliens who are anarchists, unconstitutional.

A board of inquiry and the Secretary of Commerce and Labor having found that an alien immigrant was an anarchist within the meaning of the Alien
Look it's a stupid bloody policy but the judiciary is not set up to decide that and it can only set a bad precedent with unforeseen consequences.

EDIT: I.e. you wont like to see what happens in 4 or 8 years time when most of the judiciary could be republican picks. Also when acting attorney general Yates decided not to zealously defend this lawful order in her role as the attorney of the US government it should have resulted in her disbarment. He could also pull an Andrew Jackson and say"the court has made their order now let them enforce it" although nobody tell Trump that.
__________________
| Core i5 2500k | GTX 570 | Asus P8P67-m | 8GB Vengeance | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO | Corsair 650TX |

Last edited by Disequilibria; 27th May 2017 at 19:06.
Disequilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 00:45   #3236
cjmUK
Old git.
 
cjmUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,489
cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disequilibria View Post
Because judges are there to interpret the text of the order itself and whether that order is constitutional or legal under US law.

Saying that the 3 branches of government are there to keep each other in check is an incomplete answer. It is not the job of the judiciary to decide what is good or bad policy. The judiciary is there to decide whether the execution or the text of a law is Legal, which keeps congress from passing unconstitutional law and the executive from executing illegal orders under the US law.
The judges have looked at the Executive Order and have decided that because it is targeting people of a particular religion, it is illegal. It's fairly straightforward really. They are not saying the EO is bad - though it clearly is - they are saying it is illegal to discriminate based on religion. This is a particularly significant law in the US given that a large proportion of its founders actually arrived fleeing religious persecution.

The WH have subsequently tried to frame the EO to make it sound like it is not exclusively targeting people because of their religion, but the problem is that all the drafters of the EO have be shouting about how they are going to ban muslims from entering the country, so when the the EO is challenged in court, it is easy for the court to conclude that it is based on religious bias.

Note to future tyrannical presidential candidates: Either keep your mouth shut during the election campaign, or stop promising to do things that are illegal if you get elected. It's not rocket science.
__________________
FD Define R4, i7 6700K [with Thermalright HR-01+/Noctua NF-P12], ASUS ROG MAXIMUS HERO VIII, 18GB RAM, MSI R9 280X
cjmUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:10   #3237
Disequilibria
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 561
Disequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK View Post
The judges have looked at the Executive Order and have decided that because it is targeting people of a particular religion, it is illegal. It's fairly straightforward really. They are not saying the EO is bad - though it clearly is - they are saying it is illegal to discriminate based on religion. This is a particularly significant law in the US given that a large proportion of its founders actually arrived fleeing religious persecution.

The WH have subsequently tried to frame the EO to make it sound like it is not exclusively targeting people because of their religion, but the problem is that all the drafters of the EO have be shouting about how they are going to ban muslims from entering the country, so when the the EO is challenged in court, it is easy for the court to conclude that it is based on religious bias.

Note to future tyrannical presidential candidates: Either keep your mouth shut during the election campaign, or stop promising to do things that are illegal if you get elected. It's not rocket science.
Unfortunately the Congress is granted full power to exclude anyone including on the basis of religion. Remember the Turner vs Williams precedent I cited that shown it were perfectly fine to exclude a non naturalised person on the basis of their speech outside of the US I.e the person were an anarchist.
Plenary power means full power. Non us citizens not in residence Do not have constitutional rights. And the powers granted by Congress to the president are to be able to exclude anyone for any reason. The framers wanted a sovereign nation that means being able to decide who comes to that nation, the protections for those RESIDENT in the US is substantial for the persecution reason you state not with the intention of hamstringing the government's sovereign power to fight possible seditious entry if it were that the protection applied to those non resident non citizens. It is infact incredibly rare for the supreme Court to rule against an order that is within the presidents power with this exception. On top of the plenary power doctrine there's the consular non reveiwability doctrine also. The president persuant to USC. 50 (21) and USC.1182 can exclude any group for whatever grounds including religion. The ww2 internment situation would be impossible without USC 50.

Obviously legal cases are complex, and I could be missing a statute that the possible motive may violate and therefore be wrong, however given what I understand this seems like judicial over reach. And it looks to set dangerous precedent in regards to applying the establishment clause to non us citizens. Also there's a big debate here about textualism that can send it haywire. The current judgement will come down to Anthony Kennedy when it gets to the supreme Court and my money will be on: it is overturned 5-4, maybe more given how timid the Sc is from ruling anything about migration law against the government.

In all it's not simple, it's a lot more complicated than that.
__________________
| Core i5 2500k | GTX 570 | Asus P8P67-m | 8GB Vengeance | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO | Corsair 650TX |

Last edited by Disequilibria; Yesterday at 01:26.
Disequilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:25   #3238
cjmUK
Old git.
 
cjmUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,489
cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.cjmUK is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disequilibria View Post
Obviously legal cases are complex, and I could be missing a statute that the possible motive may violate and therefore be wrong, however given what I understand this seems like judicial over reach.
Given what you understand??

Either a) the WH really needs you onside, rather than the legions of experienced briefs they currently have, or b)... you don't understand the issues as well as the courts do.

Given that Trump sacked the head of the FBI because he was bringing down some heat during a legitimate investigation, why on earth would the WH stand for all these Judges conspiring against them, given the case for the EO is so watertight?

Occam's razor.
__________________
FD Define R4, i7 6700K [with Thermalright HR-01+/Noctua NF-P12], ASUS ROG MAXIMUS HERO VIII, 18GB RAM, MSI R9 280X
cjmUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:40   #3239
Disequilibria
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 561
Disequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming SaiyanDisequilibria is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK View Post
a) the WH really needs you onside.
In the words of Margaret Thatcher "what a good idea"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK View Post
Given what you understand??

Either a) the WH really needs you onside, rather than the legions of experienced briefs they currently have, or b)... you don't understand the issues as well as the courts do.

Given that Trump sacked the head of the FBI because he was bringing down some heat during a legitimate investigation, why on earth would the WH stand for all these Judges conspiring against them, given the case for the EO is so watertight?

Occam's razor.
Lower courts get judgements wrong all the time and unfortunately there are many reasons why the court could make such a decision. Even the supreme Court gets decisions wrong. Also the lower court is a non textualist decision so that complicates things as republican appointed judges (rightly so IMO) tend to be textualists.

Also BTW this is not the opinion of myself but each part is the thoughts of better minds on the matter than myself, it would be rather arrogant to claim original thought when I had to make so many citations to law and doctrine formulated by centuries of legal minds.

2.a. I don't see what the FBI has to do with anything
B. The only way to remove a judge is for the Congress to impeach and convict in the Senate. C.Take this example ginsburg spoke against Trump in the campaign arguably breaking the oath she took for th Sc. What does anyone want to do about it. Naff all.
D. He could pull an Andrew Jackson and just tell the court to enforce their order and carry on none the less.

I'm just saying from the information I have these court rulings are not watertight and look like overreach and sets a dangerous precedent for the American Republic beyond the small victory of stopping a stupid policy. Does the statute and constitutional realities, visavis its
Rights not applying to aliens, not at least raise some questions for you?
__________________
| Core i5 2500k | GTX 570 | Asus P8P67-m | 8GB Vengeance | 500GB Samsung 850 EVO | Corsair 650TX |

Last edited by Disequilibria; Yesterday at 03:48.
Disequilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
*hillary, crooked hillary, f*ck logic, halloween costume choice, hilliary vs. trump, ignore, literally shaking !, make america great again, nightmare 2017, not the brexit thread, tiny hands, trumpocalypse, trumpton, us election

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:17.
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.