Good enough thread title? I think so. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK..._Ian_Tomlinson_In_Video_Footage_Comes_Forward I don't care what the police think about this, end of the day, they will try and cover themselves as much as they can, it's what anyone does when someone or something is against you, it's common sense. As far as I am concerned, this is murder, and whoever pushed that bloke or as I now see, hit with a baton "twice", should be sent to prison like any other convicted killer out there. So that's my view and my family's, what's yours?
I'm no doctor, so I can't definitely say that the Police action resulted in the bloke having a heart attack, but what did he do right before the Police caught up with him? I'd wager this isn't as open and shut as it looks.
From what I heard, he was on his way home, he normally doesn't go the way he sadly died, but when he went his normal route, he was declined to leave the area, shocking to say the least.
I was going to start a thread on this, but with a different focus. The coverage of this was completely different on the BBC to the coverage on the Guardian. The reason I didn't post the thread was that the BBC has now changed its coverage. What I noticed was that on the day, the BBC only published that a man had died and the police had been attacked with a 'barrage of bottles' while trying to save the man's life. At the same time, the guardian had already found the actual news that two people threw bottles nearby, and that the man had been attacked by police. It took about a day for the BBC to update their stories, and they only did it when all the other news channels had done it so much that they couldn't get away with ignoring the story any longer. There is no evidence of that now, because they're edited the articles. It could just be me being paranoid, and maybe the person in charge of the stories couldn't get to work or something, but I thought it was suspicious anyway. There was a second issue too, relating to the 'climate camp'. The BBC report is simply a copy+paste job of what the police told them. They say the police asked everyone to move, then when they didn't, they forcefully removed the camp. However, this doesn't align at all with all the videos online, and witness statements from both people who were protesting, and people who were just passing by. link link link Are either of them biased? Or is the BBC just making sure it can verify what it publishes?
And you have absolute proof of that do you and somehow the fact that he was batoned and then pushed does seem like it would be a signficant factor and whilst I believe that the unprovoked assault might not have been a deliberate murder attempt the officer if charged should be charged with GBH or manslaughter at the least.
Murder? no, I think you'll find it very hard to prove that the Police officer set out to kill someone. Manslaughter might be a more realistic charge, but i do notice that every bit of footage I've seen on the news, and I will admit that I haven't gone looking for more complete videos, only start a couple of seconds before the baton is used, so we currently have no knowledge of what was happening before except for witness reports. Witnesses remember what they want to remember and the camera can definitely lie. I think I'll wait on passing sentence on a person till after all evidence has been collected, coroner reports published and a jury has decided, thanks very much.
This isn't murder, murder tends to be hitting someone over the head, even then it could be classed as manslaughter so don't go jumping the gun. Thats why theres an independent inquiry looking into these matters with the CPS and a 2nd post mortem has been ordered. Theres factors here that you or I dont know about such as the guy had been drinking beforehand and some have suggested had a history of alcoholism. This doesn't for me excuse what the officer did in hitting him in the leg and pushing him for no apparent reason, but thats a long way from murder my friend. The BBC at the time covered the story that the police were attacked with bottles while helping the man which they were and went with the account the police gave that they had no contact with the man before he had his heart attack. This has since proven not to be true which is why they changed there stories. Personally looking at the Youtube video is doesn't show alot, just what it wants you to see.
As far as the law is concerned, if the heart attack was a consequence of being pushed (which is quite possible) then it is manslaughter. The policeman did not intend to kill him, after all.
Agreed by law it's manslaughter, but in my view, it's not like it was an "innocent" accident, the police officer was being a total and utter ****, no respect for human life, not only did he push him once, he pushed him twice and with a bloody baton, you can't push someone like that, it's dangerous, and as you can see, the guy is now dead, children are now fatherless, that's nice isn't it. The chances of the heart attack "not" being related to the pushing is so bloody low, common sense I think. Many people have heart attacks when they are stressed or have been frightened, people also have heart attacks doing nothing, but it's an absolutely massive coincidence.
Oh please mate if he didn't have a heart attack this wouldn't have even been brought up , I've pushed mates harder than that and they've pushed me harder I hardly thought oh my he had no respect for my life. Wait till we have the report from the 2nd post mortem shall we before we jump to these conclusions shall we. The officer should be reprimanded for the push was unecessary and used too much force imo. But theres a number of factors here at play the fact he had been drinking and was known to drink in the past , the whole thing was a tense situation which would have put stress on him, he was having to find a way home again more stress, he also from what I've seen has had a history of coronary disease. The push probably would have been a factor, same as the alcohol. Should we investigate the landlord who sold him the booze? Did he smoke? If he did I dare say that would have been a factor in his death, do we charge cigarette companies with manslaughter? He had a heart attack not clubbed to death. So lets see what the investigations say and recommend shall we.
Actually it is. Regardless of events leading up to the incident, the man offered absolutely no resistance - he was walking away ffs. That copper is out of a job, out of a pension, straight to prison for manslaughter. He is utterly farked. And quite rightly.
Obviously guilty until proven innocent applies here then, or thats what a few of you would like to see. Officer should be reprimanded on the push but lets see what happens and what they find out during the investigation. Like I say theres plenty of other factors here other than the push such as the stress of the whole event and not just the push but the protesters, having to find a different way home, the fact he'd been drinking, his previous coronary history, so lets see what they find out cause its just trial by media at the moment. Sky and BBC constantly plugging the "shocking" images as they call them.
Manslaughter, not murder. There was no intent to kill, but the actions of the officer may very well have lead to the death, therefore manslaughter if found guilty of course. It would be good to know the whole story in context, the events if any leading up to the batoning and push. Remember he was not only pushed, but struck twice (I believe) with a police baton.
Quite. Context required. What did he do between being batoned and having a heart attack? Everyone calm down. Getting angry over the internets is like running in the special olympics, and I'm tired of flamed up threads in this forum. This'll be going in the bin if inflammatory, kneejerk, malformed rubbish keeps spouting out.
