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Old 24th May 2017, 16:22   #3221
Nexxo
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Perhaps the US should instate a Trump travel ban and stop him from coming back.
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Old 24th May 2017, 17:31   #3222
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
Perhaps the US should instate a Trump travel ban and stop him from coming back.
Definitely. "Donald's Bigly World Tour".
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Old 24th May 2017, 19:06   #3223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadda View Post
Definitely. "Donald's Bigly World Tour".
Coming soon to an Ecuadorian embassy near you...
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Old 24th May 2017, 22:38   #3224
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My day is made - the Pope asked Mrs Donald if she feeds him lots of cake, before they both laughed together.

Did the Pope just troll Trump over his weight? Trolled by the Pope!
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Old Yesterday, 15:50   #3225
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Quote:
A US federal appeals court has refused to lift a temporary block on President Donald Trump's revised travel ban.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40053413

Court document for those who want more details: (pdf warning)
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...rcuit-IRAP.pdf
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Old Yesterday, 16:42   #3226
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Those decisions will get reversed in the supreme court. The president is granted plenary power to ban any class of aliens most of this decision is based on woolly argumentation that rhetoric from his campaign counts not the wording of the executive order.

I think it is a stupid ban but legally i don't see a reason to block it.

If it stands it will become precedent and could be used to argue that non us citizens have constitutional rights, for example with what this rules about the establishment clause.

I don't like his ban but I like judicial tyranny a lot less.
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Old Yesterday, 20:52   #3227
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Under our constitution, noncitizens do have constitutional rights. Hence why they can attend our schools, etc. In fact, the judgement that ruled that was about kids going to school.

I don't see a problem with it. They aren't responsible for what their parents do, they just need an education.

Supreme court won't reverse this seeing as to what Donald's said in the past about keeping all the Muslims out. It'll be seen as inherent bias (like these past rulings) and no ban can be made on basis of religion. That plenary power does not extend further than the letter of the Constitution. If he hadn't been so vocal during the election, there might have been a ghost of a chance.
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Old Yesterday, 22:31   #3228
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One good thing, about watching Trump, is that I don't feel just so bad about the idiotic outcome of the Brexit vote.

No matter how bad that was/is, its not as bad as having Trump in charge
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Old Yesterday, 22:52   #3229
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And when you think he is done embarrassing himself and will take a bit of a break after the latest accident? brainfart? Trump moment? he just goes and does it again...

Source in german, sorry:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...a-1149282.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...a-1149336.html

Anyway, its Trump bitching to EU leaders about how its unfair that Germany exports cars and that Germany doesn't have a trade deficit...
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Old Yesterday, 22:58   #3230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield View Post
Anyway, its Trump bitching to EU leaders about how its unfair that Germany exports cars and that Germany doesn't have a trade deficit...
And how hard it is to get planning permission for golf resorts.
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Old Yesterday, 23:17   #3231
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Trump strategy to winning bigly:
Say so much crazy stuff the world only remembers half of it
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Old Yesterday, 23:25   #3232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield View Post
Trump strategy to winning bigly:
Say so much crazy stuff the world only remembers half of it
It just keeps coming at you so fast. You don't have time to dwell on just how awful his latest outburst is because your brain is only just starting to process it when the next one comes along.
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Old Today, 00:49   #3233
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and right on cue...

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin
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Old Today, 00:58   #3234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disequilibria View Post
I don't like his ban but I like judicial tyranny a lot less.
Remind me again about the US system... IIRC there are supposed to be 3 equal branches of government, designed to keep each other in check, right? And they are the Legislative (House/Senate), the Executive (Trump and his minions) and... what was the third again? Oh, that's right... the judiciary.

So it looks like the system is working, to an extent. The Legislative branch have failed to curb the excesses of the Trump family and Goldman Sachs (because they see an opportunity to get away with so much under the orange man-child's watch), but the Judiciary are independent (just about) - and have decided that what The Donald and his colleagues have said is a likely an indication of how they actually see things.

So after 2 years of talking about a Muslim ban, and then they try to enact a law that disproportionately impacts on Muslims, various courts around the US have come to the same conclusion... that the bans are likely to be specifically targeted at Muslims and thus are illegal. I'm really not sure what the controversy is.
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Old Today, 12:04   #3235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayinBlack View Post
Under our constitution, noncitizens do have constitutional rights. Hence why they can attend our schools, etc. In fact, the judgement that ruled that was about kids going to school.

I don't see a problem with it. They aren't responsible for what their parents do, they just need an education.

Supreme court won't reverse this seeing as to what Donald's said in the past about keeping all the Muslims out. It'll be seen as inherent bias (like these past rulings) and no ban can be made on basis of religion. That plenary power does not extend further than the letter of the Constitution. If he hadn't been so vocal during the election, there might have been a ghost of a chance.
Sorry should have been more precise.
Legal residents do and illegals on american soil do. What this does is pretend that constitutional rights apply to non citizens abroad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK View Post
Remind me again about the US system... IIRC there are supposed to be 3 equal branches of government, designed to keep each other in check, right? And they are the Legislative (House/Senate), the Executive (Trump and his minions) and... what was the third again? Oh, that's right... the judiciary.

So it looks like the system is working, to an extent. The Legislative branch have failed to curb the excesses of the Trump family and Goldman Sachs (because they see an opportunity to get away with so much under the orange man-child's watch), but the Judiciary are independent (just about) - and have decided that what The Donald and his colleagues have said is a likely an indication of how they actually see things.

So after 2 years of talking about a Muslim ban, and then they try to enact a law that disproportionately impacts on Muslims, various courts around the US have come to the same conclusion... that the bans are likely to be specifically targeted at Muslims and thus are illegal. I'm really not sure what the controversy is.
Because judges are there to interpret the text of the order itself and whether that order is constitutional or legal under US law. The basis that they are using the establishment clause to apply to non citizens not resident or in US territory is incorrect. There is also precedent for banning certain classes of aliens going back to WW2 and also just after WW1.

Saying that the 3 branches of government are there to keep each other in check is an incomplete answer. It is not the job of the judiciary to decide what is good or bad policy. The judiciary is there to decide whether the execution or the text of a law is Legal, which keeps congress from passing unconstitutional law and the executive from executing illegal orders under the US law. The constitutional framers were creating a sovereign nation and It's a touchstone of sovereignty to be able to exclude whomever they wish for any reason, article 1 section 8 clause 4 grants congress plenary power to establish uniform rules for naturalisation, by establishing rules for naturalisation you have to be establishing rules for how people can not be naturalised.


It's a stupid policy but it would be the place of congress to remove the presidents powers under 50 USC section 21

Quote:
Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed on the part of the United States, toward the aliens who become so liable; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which are found necessary in the premises and for the public safety.
or USC 1182(f)

Quote:
(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.
And the following judgement to be overturned

Turner v. Williams, 194 U.S. 279 (1904)

Quote:
Congress has power to exclude aliens from, and to prescribe the conditions on which they may enter, the United States; to establish regulations for deporting aliens who have illegally entered, and to commit the enforcements of such conditions and regulations to executive officers. Deporting, pursuant to law, an alien who has illegally entered the United States does not deprive him of his liberty without due process of law.

The Alien Immigration Act of March, 1903, 32 Stat. 1213, does not violate the federal Constitution, nor are its provisions as to the exclusion of aliens who are anarchists, unconstitutional.

A board of inquiry and the Secretary of Commerce and Labor having found that an alien immigrant was an anarchist within the meaning of the Alien
Look it's a stupid bloody policy but the judiciary is not set up to decide that and it can only set a bad precedent with unforeseen consequences. EDIT: I.e. you wont like to see what happens in 4 or 8 years time when most of the judiciary could be republican picks. Also when acting attorney general Yates decided not to zealously defend this lawful order in her role as the attorney of the US government it should have resulted in her disbarment.
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