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Motherboards Question about RAID (New problem! Halp!)

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by .//TuNdRa, 12 Aug 2013.

  1. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    I've recently been looking into running a raid 10 setup on my machine, using four WD RED drives of some variety, but I'm curious as to whether I can initially setup a RAID 0 array out of just two drives, then expand it into a RAID 10 array at a later date (I.e: When I can afford another 2 HDDs.)

    I'm aware that, from a purely logical point of view; it should be possible. Since it'd basically just setup another RAID0 array then RAID1 the two arrays to make the relevant layout, but I'm curious if my motherboard (Crosshair V Formula) would support such an action without forcing me to wipe the initial 2 drives.
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2013
  2. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon Modder

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    According to AMD's RAIDxpert manual (see page 105 aka Chapter 6 - Migration) then it's possible...

    ...though, there are 3 potential problems -

    1. the R0 array has no redundancy so if either drive failed before you got the other 2 drives you'd lose everything on there.

    2. in the event of power loss during the raid migration (which is likely to take hours, depending on size), you'd lose data.

    [NB you might be able to recover x amount of it using something like R-Studio, but there's the s/w to buy & the need for sufficient space on other drives to recover to - since it's naturally be foolish to recover to the drives you're trying to recover from as you'd end up overwriting data you were trying to recover.]​

    3. &, it goes without saying that raid is not backup - so it 'may' be worth considering the alt options depending on how critical the data is/how annoying it would be to lose it... potentially not involving raid at all.

    [NB whilst i use R0, R1 & R10 for both things that don't matter & temporary storage, everything that's important (or would be damn annoying to lose) is either automatically backed up or manually duplicated onto separate drives.]​
     
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  3. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    All of the above I was aware of. I just wanted to be sure I wouldn't have to reformat the first two drives when I added the next two. I've been keeping religious backups of all my core files (Documents & Photos,) - I'm just peeved to occasionally lose the odd game or, as is the case here, suffer a slowly dying drive and cope with the odd game entirely corrupting.

    Cheers for the help, however.

    The reason for going RAID10 and not just jamming four drives into 0 is simply to prevent drive failure from nuking everything all at once.
     
  4. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon Modder

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    i'm not sure if you've misunderstood, but 'raid migration' means to convert from one raid type to another without formatting the drives; usually with the addition of one or more extra drives - otherwise it'd be a pretty pointless option...

    ...a bit like 'raid expansion' would be a pretty pointless option if, rather than being able to expand an array using spare capacity on drives in the array, you had to start from scratch.

    Well, in the former case then you wouldn't be 'migrating' & in the latter you wouldn't be 'expanding' if they were actively destructive - you'd be starting again.

    So, i do feel that i'd answered what you needed to know - or rather i'm not sure what answer you were after knowing if you were already aware of everything i wrote???


    Otherwise, whilst i was sure you'd know about most/all of the three numbered points, it was simply so that the major potential pitfalls & limitations are noted so that no one else thinks, 'that's a snazzy idea', without being aware of them.
     
  5. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    I knew from the start that RAID10 wouldn't protect me from data corruption or deletion, I'm just after a setup that'll give me improved read and write speeds in sequential and survive failure of a single disk.

    I do take backups of my most commonly used files, as well as all of my precious files, such as unique pictures and documents, but I don't have a system in place to ensure that my system would survive the failure of a HDD.
     
  6. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon Modder

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    Ah, i see - by saying that "All of the above I was aware of" then you were referring to the 3 points...

    ...not the RAIDxpert info re migration from R0 to R10 being possible.


    it's no problem - it just wasn't immediately clear why you'd asked the question if you'd known "*all* of the above." :)
     
  7. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    Thanks for the help so far PocketDemon, but I fear I've run into an altogether more annoying problem now.

    When I attempt to load the In-BIOS raid setup system; the system just freezes, it won't respond to any commands bar CTRL+ALT+DEL to force it to reboot, changing the UEFI settings to use the UEFI driver rather than the legacy Option ROM for RAID control seemingly does nothing other than disable the CTRL+F key combination that's meant to be used to enter RAID option ROM.

    Does anyone have a clue on how on earth to overcome this? I've tried disconnecting all of the drives and seeing if it'll boot to the Option ROM and it's still refusing. I also apparently cannot boot from any disks plugged into any port setup as RAID, the motherboard just flat out won't allow it, which means I'm also going to have a hell of a time getting my SSD to behave while it's in IDE mode.
     
  8. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon Modder

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    i've no idea if this will help, but according to this, you need to set all of the ports as being raid (in the bios) to get into the orom option.

    it's possible that this also is preventing anything from booting.

    if you can get the SSD to boot with everything set to raid (but still can't get into the orom raid setup thing), you could try using the RAIDxpert in Windows to create the array.


    i'm also getting the impression, from randomly looking around t'internet, that the AMD controller on your board splits the ports into a group of 2 & a group of 4...

    (unlike the intel controllers where it's a free for all)

    ...& you need to zone what you're doing so that, with what you're trying to do, the SSD & the optical drive (assuming you've got one) would be physically attached to the group of 2, whilst the raid array you're trying to create would need to be attached to the group of 4...

    ...ie you can't set up an array that spans the groups, unlike with the intel controller.


    These are just ideas though, as i've not used an AMD setup in years.


    Otherwise, i naturally assume you've checked for an updated bios, & reset the bios to remove any o/c & whatnot in case that's an issue...

    ...& also, having changed it to raid & rebooted, gone back into the bios & made sure that the SSD is still the primary boot device.

    (i'm really doubt you wouldn't have done these, so it's just for the sake of putting them down 'in case')
     
  9. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    Okay. I've spent most of the day hammering my way around in BIOS and other issues and discovered a few interesting facts;

    One: My Bios was apparently Borked. the RAID controller seemingly didn't want to work. Had to reflash BIOS over to get it to function.

    Two; I cannot format the resultant raid Array. I can see it, the second I tell windows to format it with GPT; I loose the array. It drops offline and RaidXpert claims that the first drive in the array has gone into shutdown. It'll refuse to show up unless I unplug it, power cycle the machine again, then plug it back in.

    At this rate; I'm going to go with just WIndows Virtual RAID. That worked when I tested it earlier, while the AMD hardware raid is being a PIMA.
     
  10. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon Modder

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    Just to make sure, you are only using SATA ports 1-4 for the array - as per page 4-39 of the mobo manual?

    ...obviously using ports 5 & 6 for the SSD &, if you've got another drive, whatever that is... As said, the ports are grouped.


    & i assume you've done obvious things like swap the SATA cable - this being the only reason that i've ever had drives drop out of an array...

    ...&, if you've got a spare HDD, making a temporary array using that & the WD Red that's not dropping out to rule out the new HDD - if not, i guess you could swap the cables around to see if it's the same HDD that drops out.
     
  11. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    Ironically; It was the cable. An old Sata cable I'd had to fish out because all of my more recent ones have been 90 degree-ended variants that wouldn't've fitted in around the case otherwise.

    Cheers for the help, PocketDemon. You've been invaluable in helping me get this damn thing to work. (Sadly I can't rep you again so soon.)

    TL;DR version for anyone skimming the thread: I had corrupt Motherboard BIOS and a dodgy sata cable.
     
  12. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon Modder

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    That's great news - well, damn annoying that you've had so much hassle with it as it 'should' be simple, but i'm really pleased that you've got it sorted & it wasn't anything expensive. :)

    & i'll keep my fingers crossed that, when you get the extra drives & do the migration, all goes well...

    Just remember to bin the faulty cable & order a couple more.
     

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