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Old 10th Jun 2012, 12:09   #101
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Also to reiterate, it's best to use a credit card for items over £100 since Section 75 can apply some very real pressure for a retailer to respond.
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Old 9th Jul 2012, 20:44   #102
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Excellent post Blogins.
Having read through it first time today is it ok to add couple of points about returning goods under the DSR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blogins View Post
That's simply packaging. As long as the original product is in new condition as it was when it was first unwrapped then it's fine to return the item. If there are any small scratches then ebuyer would have grounds to reject your claim under the DSR.
Unless I'm mistaken there are no grounds for rejection of a claim under DSR except when the notification is made after the specified period (currently 7 working days after the day the goods were received*). The supplier must make a full refund of all purchase costs within 30 days of cancellation notification regardless.

The supplier cannot withhold any part of the refund because of damage etc.
Any damage eg scratches would be classed as a breach of statutory duty of care and must be treated by the supplier as a separate claim against the purchaser.

The regulations also do not place any obligation on the purchaser to return the goods.

Could I suggest that the template letter should be amended to remove "Please contact me within 14 days to arrange collection/return of the goods."

Also there is no requirement to notify the supplier by letter. The notification must be by means of "durable medium" and the government's interpretation of that includes email, fax and letter. The only caveat I would have is where the supplier (eg Ebuyer) uses a system of in-house "notes". It's not clear if that would be classed as email.
A phone call would also be acceptable but only if the supplier's terms & conditions say so.

Any terms and conditions which attempt to deny or restrict a consumer's legal rights are classed as "unfair" and do not apply.

*The EU regulations have been changed and the changes should be implemented in the UK over the next 18 months.
See http://www.fpb.org/hottips/790/How_n...or_selling.htm for more details
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Old 9th Jul 2012, 22:46   #103
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A lot of retailers are on dodgy ground about the DSR, claiming that the goods have to be unopened, etc. or that they will only refund you after their return. As above, they're obliged to refund you within 30 days of notification, and cannot reject a refund if you don't return the goods (but they could make a claim against you for that).

From the OFT:

Where the DSRs give consumers the right to cancel an order, this right is unconditional and begins from the moment the contract is concluded. Unlike when buying from a shop the first time that a consumer will have an opportunity to examine goods purchased by distance means is when they receive them. When a consumer cancels a contract to which the cancellation provisions apply they are entitled to a refund of any money they have paid in relation to the contract even if the goods are not defective in any way.

There's also no obligation to take care of the packaging, as many retailers unlawfully insist:

Can I insist that consumers who cancel an order within the cancellation period return the goods as new or in their original packaging?

3.58 No. Consumers are under a duty to take reasonable care of the goods while in their possession as discussed in paragraph 3.44. The DSRs allow consumers to examine goods they have ordered as they would in a shop. If that requires opening the packaging and trying out the goods then they have not breached their duty to take reasonable care of the goods. In these circumstances you cannot insist that consumers return the goods as new or in their original packaging. You may ask consumers to return goods with the original packaging, but you cannot insist on this.


This in particular is completely ignored by many retailers:

When do I have to refund a consumer’s money if they cancel an order?

3.46 As soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case within 30 days at the latest. You must refund the consumer’s money even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to you by the consumer. You cannot insist on the goods being received by you before you make a refund.
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Old 9th Jul 2012, 23:42   #104
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Thanks for the informative posts. It's a WIP and always will be!

Quote:
Originally Posted by glendronach View Post
*The EU regulations have been changed and the changes should be implemented in the UK over the next 18 months.
See http://www.fpb.org/hottips/790/How_n...or_selling.htm for more details
Now that is very interesting.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 14:59   #105
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I was ready to start posting on this thread about an experience, which has sorted itself before it really began.

I ordered a Samsung Bluray player from Amazon, and after 13 months it developed a fault (audio out of sync). I emailed Amazon, expecting the whole 'sorry, 12 month warranty has passed, nothing we can do', but got a reply back offering a full refund, and they'd even pay to pick up the player by courier.
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Old 7th Aug 2012, 12:17   #106
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Quick question...

Bought a set of Microlab core solo6c's from scan on the 27th july, and received them on the 1st of aug as part of a larger order using the paybreak payment scheme. They were faulty so rmad them and got some replacments which were also faulty and are getting collected today for my second rma.

Do i have he right to ring them up and either change the order for the replacements to a different brand as I have no confidence in the 3rd set being working, or just ring them/email them and ask for a refund on the cost of the speakers.

And if I do get a refund does it come to me or the company who the credit agreement is with?

Alright I lied, not really a quick question ;-)
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Old 24th Aug 2012, 11:41   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teppic View Post
I ordered a Samsung Bluray player from Amazon, and after 13 months it developed a fault (audio out of sync). I emailed Amazon, expecting the whole 'sorry, 12 month warranty has passed, nothing we can do', but got a reply back offering a full refund, and they'd even pay to pick up the player by courier.
I've heard Amazon offer excellent customer service. Pleased to hear another good outcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OversizeZantos View Post
Bought a set of Microlab core solo6c's from scan on the 27th july, and received them on the 1st of aug as part of a larger order using the paybreak payment scheme. They were faulty so rmad them and got some replacments which were also faulty and are getting collected today for my second rma.

Do i have he right to ring them up and either change the order for the replacements to a different brand as I have no confidence in the 3rd set being working, or just ring them/email them and ask for a refund on the cost of the speakers.

And if I do get a refund does it come to me or the company who the credit agreement is with?

Alright I lied, not really a quick question ;-)
Sorry I missed this one! Little late but I would argue the case using the Sale of Goods template letter on page 1 of this thread. Your rights under consumer law are diminished using a third party payment system such as PayBreak. It doesn't stop you causing a stink if the goods are persistently faulty however! As I always recommend, use a credit card and buy the goods direct. Avoid Google Checkout and PayPal because credit cards are so much more robust. Also the 39.0% APR offered by PayBreak is simply appalling.
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Old 25th Aug 2012, 09:40   #108
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Could do with a bit more info about "Paybreak".
The website describes it as a short term loan company,address is 45-51 Chorley New Rd, Bolton.
Checking with Google and Google maps seems to suggest this is a convenience address used by quite a few companies. I could be wrong though.
Are there any other web-based companies other than Scan using them?
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Old 25th Aug 2012, 09:48   #109
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Quote:
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Could do with a bit more info about "Paybreak".
I really hate this facility. Short term gain for a possible and very real long term loss.

If you can't afford it then don't buy it, simple!
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Old 25th Aug 2012, 10:16   #110
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35% p.a. interest rate, 29GBP service fee. If i would have to describe it in other words, i would use words "legalized theft". Your credit card, which is a very bad loan product itself has sub-20% interest rate. So please do your math and think about it. There are many, many much better loan products than quick loans from these "companies". If you want a loan, you pretty much want a loan from bank. Starting from credit cards and ending with personal loans.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 00:48   #111
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Quote:
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Was this ever stickied?
Despite repeated requests, no.

Maybe it would offend advertisers?
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Old 23rd Oct 2012, 20:06   #112
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Currently have a couple of RMA jobs on the go! The first is my Corsair AX850 that for the second time following a brand new replacement, fails to start. Also an ASUS GTX 670 which has just stopped displaying after a very pungent electrical burn that it managed all by itself.

Must be some more consumer battles ongoing that warrant posting in this thread so it's not just a shameless bump!
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Old 23rd Oct 2012, 20:57   #113
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Quote:
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Must be some more consumer battles ongoing that warrant posting in this thread so it's not just a shameless bump!
I don't battle with EVGA, but i need to waste 32 euros to send my EVGA P55 SLI to Germany for RMA in the extended warranty period (local shop provided 2 years, EVGA after invoice registration provided 3 years).
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Old 25th Oct 2012, 15:27   #114
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I go for the Sale of Goods Act 1979 here in the UK above any warranty since the former is law.

My Corsair AX850 has been tested as faulty by SCAN so I just need to wait for the replacement now. That leaves the faulty ASUS GTX 670 to sort out then I'm smelling of roses yet again without a single penny spent in both cases!
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Old 25th Oct 2012, 15:50   #115
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Good thread. Thanks.
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Old 26th Oct 2012, 13:30   #116
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Just to pipe in about paybreak, I wholeheartedly agree with you bloggins, but in my particular case it is the only way I could spend so much without the mrs finding out and making my life hell for the next 6 months (50-100 is fine here and there, but she seems to think we're saving for a car and a wedding, which we're not) so a massive purchase would cause so much friction its worth paying the extra and having monthly repayments rather than paying up front. And due to a vast period of financial retardedness back in my uni days, I cant get other credit.

On the plus side, everything with the speakers was sorted by scan and have a nice set of logitechs to replace them, and this thread is permanantly bookmarked and emailed to many friends who've had issues with distance selling and items dying early so thank you sir!
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Old 26th Oct 2012, 18:01   #117
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No problem, just glad you found it useful. I might extend the original post somewhat with typical responses I've had from retailers asides from the example that went swimmingly well with ebuyer that I posted here...

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthrea...=217849&page=4

Some of the RMA claims I've raised have met with some inaccurate responses from retailers in the past and I think it's important not to be herded by some of the more ridiculous stipulations. One such example included a retailer stating that they can not process a refund 28 days after the original purchase date. In the event of a fault under the Sale of Goods Act, this is complete tripe since it pits the retailers claimed 'Terms & Conditions' directly against UK consumer law!
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Old 27th Oct 2012, 14:18   #118
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Good Idea. I had something similar with hmv where I bought a £50 pair of sennheiser overear headphones (cant remember the model) that I only used 3 times and kept in the soft bag that came with it in a drawer (on its own), and the left ear cut out after 2 mins of use on the 3rd time I used them. This was 2 months after I bought them, and the staff in the store refused a refund as I had them so long and had obviously dropped them. Where they got this from I dont know.

They then proceeded to tell me that if I had bought the extra insurance that they sell with the headphones they could have exchanged them on the spot for the same or better if they weren't in stock.

Quick letter to the head office stating the sale of goods act and my experience got me a full refund.

I now make a point of not buying my headphones from hmv in scunthorpe just because they annoyed me so much. Oh well, in the end their loss as I've since spent over 600 pounds on new headphones for me, and about 4 family members as presents or at request
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Old 27th Oct 2012, 14:27   #119
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What gets me, especially after working returns and claims for a retail company for a while (nothing special, just a few duties that got added onto my dc job), is that each claim seems to be judged on how much it will cost the company at that point, even though the law is fairly specific, and will more than likely cost them more down the line by actually giving the refund, but not on the very real possibility of future sales and customer goodwill.

I was told in no uncertain terms that a valid claim must always be processed as quickly as possible, and if a refund requested, sent to the accounts department that day to get the ball rolling (usually took 24 hrs), and a replacement shipped the same day, and some of the shoes and gear were coming back in a ridiculous state (1 pair was caked in dried cow **** that had dissolved some of the leather as it had been left on for 2 months, and another were 2yrs old and bought in a different country). Long story short, they company made the money from the sale, a few losses from refunds and replacements (even spurious ones), but the metrics which came back from head office showed that over 90% of the customers went on to spend even more money with us. Hence the fairly laid back policy.

If only everywhere had this mindset. Would make everyones (theirs included) lives so much easier
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Old 27th Oct 2012, 23:34   #120
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Excellent thread, thanks for all the info.

I will just add that if you buy something online that is advertised as being in stock and your credit/debit card is charged and you are then told that your item is temporarily out of stock or sold out and won't be restocked and you have trouble getting your money back you could try telling the company that "A merchant is not entitled to charge a credit/debit card before the goods have been dispatched as it is against VISA and MasterCard's regulations for a merchant to bill their cards prior to shipping".

I have done this twice and have had a refund quite quickly when the company realizes your not an idiot, on both occasions the companies kept ignoring my requests for a refund and just kept offering me alternative options to what I ordered which I did not want.

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Is it legal to charge a credit card before shipping the product?

It is technically legal, but it isn't good business! Most companies only charge when they ship. It is against VISA and MasterCard's regulations for a merchant to bill their cards prior to shipping.

Contrary to what some sources indicate, the Fair Credit Billing Act does not address if it is legal for a company to charge you before shipping the product. Instead, it makes it illegal to not ship within advertised time period (or 30 days if no expected shipping date is mentioned in the agreement). If a merchant says "this item takes 90 days to ship", then they may bill right away and not have a legal problem if they ship before the 90 day window.

reference
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...dit/cre28.shtm

Whilst the link refers to an American site I have used this info in the UK with good results.
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