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Old 28th Mar 2015, 22:00   #41
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That's a nice little write-up on your first impressions Parge, looking forward to hearing how it matches up with the Nostromo for playing SC or Elite.

I'd be interested to see how the weight of the movement in the CH range compares to the Warthog, as it does sound like that Warthog has a massive amount of resistance to it which could potentially be tiring to use for long gaming sessions.
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Old 28th Mar 2015, 23:45   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete J View Post
I've recently bought phinix's X52 Pro off him and in anticipation have bought some magnets as recommended in Parge's original post video. As much as I love my Sidewinder Force Feedback 2, it's a little worn and needs a few more buttons! Not to mention I like the idea of a more serious throttle.

I like my equipment to feel weighty though, so depending on how it feels, I may look into attaching some weights.

I assume some of you have seen my recent thread about my wirelesssmelly joystick! I bought it for my new HTPC and it works like a charm. Now to buy the TV, amp and everything else to go with it...
Yeah, that thread totally grossed me out! The X52 Pro is great isn't it. Also.... lights!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phinix View Post
My Warthog arrived today....

My first impression - Holy f**!!! this is one heavy HUGE fat... stick!
I haven't fired it up yet, but Jezuuuzz - this is heavy stuff, I'm having second thoughts now, seriously..
This one is so heavy on moving then I don't know if it's really a good choice for space sims...
My X52 PRO was perfect in terms of moves, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get used to this 4kg big dildo

It has huge resistance to side moves, same for buttons. I need to try it out in Elite first to see how it goes, specially longer gaming session.
I've played Star Citizen for 3 hours tonight. At times you really have to fight the Warthog, but its weight is what makes the movement so smooth. The two really are very different sticks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC View Post
Warthog stick looks awesome. Button placement very similar to the x-55 I use.

@Parge - have you thought about trying a 60% keyboard? I use one between the hotas elements with mouse on the other side of the stick.

Separate note, who uses pedals? I'm debating but they seem expensive, and thoughts on if they're worthwhile in EliteDangerous?
I have, but by the end of this year I'm going to have an HMD strapped to my face, so a keyboard just won't cut it. That's the main reason I'm using the Nostromo instead - with the palm rest you can tell feel exactly where everything is intuitively.

I've been looking at pedals, but I also think they are very expensive for what you get, and my chair is wheely, so I reckon I'd just be slipping back across the room! I don't think they are going to figure in my setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suenstar View Post
That's a nice little write-up on your first impressions Parge, looking forward to hearing how it matches up with the Nostromo for playing SC or Elite.

I'd be interested to see how the weight of the movement in the CH range compares to the Warthog, as it does sound like that Warthog has a massive amount of resistance to it which could potentially be tiring to use for long gaming sessions.
As above - 3 hours tonight and you do have to put more effort in than other joysticks but not to the extent that it actually makes your arms tired or anything. It remains to be seen if that is the case after say 8 hours......
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 00:27   #43
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Double update! You lucky lot

Just before I continue, I should have made my objectives clear in my previous post.
  1. Retain the immersion using a joystick creates
  2. But also be able to play FPS component of SC
  3. Save deskspace

Lets start by getting the negatives out of the way right off the bat.
  • No full size throttle = less immersion. No denying it, pushing a huge throttle forward feel powerful and 'right' in context of what you are seeing on screen
  • Because you don't have a physical throttle you have to pay more attention to your HUD to tell you how fast you are travelling.
  • ....and following on from that its easy to forget that SC is a game where just hammering the throttle on full power all the time does not pay dividends
  • The Warthog base plate is massive

So, I think you get the gist there, basically physical throttles are cool and useful.

However, for me at least, the Warthog/Nostromo setup is preferable. Why is that?
  • Buttons. I've got loads of them. Space games need loads of them. Just moving your ships requires 6 for Strafe, 4 for turn/pitch, and 2 for roll. Thats 10 buttons total and we haven't even fired a gun yet! Insane. As previously mentioned, the Nostromo sets you up with 14 on the main pad, 4 on the hat two thumb buttons, and scroll wheel, 21 in all. I've still got a few unassigned, and I've not really even had to use any of the HATs etc on the Warthog.
  • Layout - all of the above are within easy reach of all my fingers, and I can hit them all with my eyes shut
  • Agility. On the back of this, I'm MUCH MUCH more nimble in my ship than I've ever been before. Previously in the hunt for immersion I'd assigned strafe and roll to HAT switches on the throttle on joystick, but, the truth is HAT switches suck balls for strafing in a firefight. Now, my I can deftly move from rolling to strafing to full reverse in less than a second. I cannot wait to play with my friends again, they are going to be gobsmacked.
  • Punch it! In a similar vein, acceleration is instantaneous. Instead of having to push a throttle all the way forward, I can now jam it up to 100% and back to 0% in the blink of an eye. Sure the ships don't even react that fast, but it definitely makes a difference in play.
  • Buttons! (pt.2)Again... yes.... Not just movement, but things like boost targeting and missile lock are so very easily accessible.
  • Desk space. The Nostromo itself is much smaller than the X52 throttle, and it doesn't require a cable to reach between the two (The X52 has one that links the Joystick and Throttle).
  • Setup time. Because of the above, both of these just come out of the desk draw and onto the desk and I'm away. No more messing about plugging cables in.
  • FPS Ready. The Nostromo basically imitates the WASD area of a keyboard, and therefore all I need to do is take the hand off the Warthog and put it straight onto the mouse and I'm ready to walk around the hanger, open the sim pod etc. Using just a joystick was fine in ED, because that side of the game doesn't exist. However, in SC, where FPS is going to a major component of the game, its imperative to be able to have an FPS friendly input. So Nostromo/Mouse for FPS and Nostromo/Joystick for Flying.

Here's my work in progress Nostromo setup:


I previously mentioned that I was looking at the Orbweaver Elite with mechanical keys - but you know what, I'm not going to bother - the Nostromo totally does the job.

I think as a set-up it completely achieves objectives 1 and 2: you still get to be a badass pilot with a joystick, but jumping out and capturing a station in FPS will be just as good as using the usual FPS KB+M combo.

For 3, there's still room for improvement. I'll need to make a custom Warthog mount. Already got some plans for this though - so keep an eye out!

In summary, unless Delta Throttles become mainstream, or CIG step up to the plate with a radical overhaul of space sim input devices, this is going to be my SC setup.

Hope this gave some of you some ideas for your perfect set-ups. See you in the 'verse!
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 00:52   #44
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My 2 pennies...
I'm returing my Warthog.
That's it, I can't handle it. This huge stick is too heavy for me - moving wise.
It's too hard to make moves, buttons also need more force to be pushed etc.
Plus I lose too much not having throttle. I really thought I could distribute all other buttons to that stick and keyboard, but I don't like that solution.
HOTAS for the win! Maybe some day they will make a stick with throttle and other bits built-in...
See, PArge is using Nostromo - this covers all missing bits. But still, Warthog stick is too hard to use for me. And I'm not a weak small boy!

Huge disapointment...

Anyone wants a Warthog stick before I send it back to Amazon?
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 11:35   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phinix View Post
My 2 pennies...
I'm returing my Warthog.
That's it, I can't handle it. This huge stick is too heavy for me - moving wise.
It's too hard to make moves, buttons also need more force to be pushed etc.
Plus I lose too much not having throttle. I really thought I could distribute all other buttons to that stick and keyboard, but I don't like that solution.
HOTAS for the win! Maybe some day they will make a stick with throttle and other bits built-in...
See, PArge is using Nostromo - this covers all missing bits. But still, Warthog stick is too hard to use for me. And I'm not a weak small boy!
Haha!

I saw this coming! I'm actually grinning as I type this .

No worries! I've already replied to your PM!
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 12:19   #46
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My main complaint with the Warthog so far is the lack of an adjustable palm-rest. Even with my massive gorilla-hands, I need to shift my grip up to comfortably use the china/coolie-hat switch at the top-left. The hatswitch on the lower-left is also going to take a bit of practice to comfortable trigger the 'press-in' without clicking it to the side at the same time.

So glad to be rid of the x52's yaw rotation though. The 'lock' bar was utterly useless at keeping the stick still.

I'll be keeping the X52 throttle for now. It works well enough, and the Warthog throttle is currently twice the price of the stick alone (probably because it was only just released as a separate item). I've looked at the CH products throttle (and the X55 throttle, which comes with a now redundant stick) but neither really offer anything above the X52 throttle to be worth it. I'd really like a throttle with true analog 'hat' to handle lateral thrust for Elite/SC, but if I'd have to start creating a custom throttle, I'd rather build a proper T-stick controller. The Warthog base is so nice that I might stick with it rather than trying to build a wrist-centred linkage though.
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 12:56   #47
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I don't get it?

The Warthog is amazing. Yes, it isn't as light as the plastic stuff that Saitek turn out, but that's a good thing surely? I've been flying with the 'hog for a few years now and I have no problem with multi-hour sessions. The weight also allows a lot finer movements on the stick as you don't automatically over-compensate due to it not weighing anything.

I can agree that the throttle is important...which is why I'd never by the Warthog stick only. The throttle is essential. Buy the double pack!
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 15:28   #48
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So I went off the deep end and have ordered:



What sold it to me in particular (aside from the reported weight and strength of it) was this little feature:



Mmm, thumb hat switch for strafing!
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 17:08   #49
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Yep, exactly what mine is configured as! The only thing you may want is pedals, as there is no yaw, and yaw on a HAT is terribad.
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 18:41   #50
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*Comes in nonchalantly to check thread*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cei View Post
Yep, exactly what mine is configured as! The only thing you may want is pedals, as there is no yaw, and yaw on a HAT is terribad.
WHAT!!!

Why did I assume it would have yaw .

Oh well...



Problem solved.
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 06:53   #51
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Does Elite Dangerous support force feedback?
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 09:26   #52
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I love how Pete just went from 'oh I'll buy a second hand joystick' to.... 'WARTHOG FULL HOTAS AND PEDALS!'

Ha ha!


Edit: also, I discovered an extra button on the warthog, it's like a forefinger button right on the top of the stick.

By the way, does everyone use backward strafe? Slightly terrifying, but super cool in the right situation.
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 09:40   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parge View Post
I love how Pete just went from 'oh I'll buy a second hand joystick' to.... 'WARTHOG FULL HOTAS AND PEDALS!'

Ha ha!


Edit: also, I discovered an extra button on the warthog, it's like a forefinger button right on the top of the stick.

By the way, does everyone use backward strafe? Slightly terrifying, but super cool in the right situation.
Yep, that's usually my comms button, but I'm thinking of changing it to being flares or another gun group.
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 12:09   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parge View Post
I love how Pete just went from 'oh I'll buy a second hand joystick' to.... 'WARTHOG FULL HOTAS AND PEDALS!'
My weekend was a bit weird and retailer I had lined up to buy the Warthog from had a problem processing my order, so I decided to wimp out and go for an X55 Rhino set up instead - the hatch switch is still there after all and I actually like twisting the joystick for yaw as I find it more responsive than feet!

Unfortunately I couldn't cancel the pedals in time, so it looks like a little walk will be in order to send it back tomorrow lunchtime, assuming it turns up in the morning. Amazon's returns department are quite frankly amazing in my eyes.

The Rhino will be with me tomorrow as well!
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 12:34   #55
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Rhino is a great piece of kit.
Recommend making sure to plug into either USB3 ports or a powered hub, heard of a number of cases where insufficient power causes ghost presses, including a friend of mine. powered hub sorted him right out. mine are in usb3 and never had a problem.

if playing ED, run the tutorials to make sure it's all working as intended. Ensures you have it all working okay rather than finding out when a ghost press hits boost inside a station - splat.
Also, if you trade, make sure you haven't got "dump all cargo "bound to the hotas (just in case).
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 15:31   #56
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The Rhino is alright, but is noticeably inferior to the Warthog. The build quality is obviously plastic, and I still retain a hatred for springs as used by Saitek. However, for the price it's an excellent HOTAS.
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 15:41   #57
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Quote:
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Ensures you have it all working okay rather than finding out when a ghost press hits boost inside a station - splat.
I've done that a couple of times in ED while setting up my mappings, though not as bad as when I boosted inside a station directly into another ship... I'm so glad I was on solo play, that would have properly pissed off a fellow human commander.
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 16:09   #58
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The Rhino is alright, but is noticeably inferior to the Warthog. The build quality is obviously plastic, and I still retain a hatred for springs as used by Saitek. However, for the price it's an excellent HOTAS.
Fair point on the build quality and if money were no object I'd go warthog, but the rhino is still a good bit of kit.

The comparison problem is that the warthog is (from all I read) absurdly well built
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 16:23   #59
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Originally Posted by GMC View Post
Fair point on the build quality and if money were no object I'd go warthog, but the rhino is still a good bit of kit.

The comparison problem is that the warthog is (from all I read) absurdly well built
It's a case of getting what you pay for. The X55 is plastic, feels a bit flimsy and has a single spring centring system, but comes in at around £150. It also has an option Z-axis twist stick. The Warthog is about £280, but is built out of solid metal and has a much much smoother centring system that is contained within the base entirely. No Z-axis, because as a high end HOTAS system you're expected to go out and buy pedals.

Essentially, the comparison problem is that the X55 is aimed at people who want a HOTAS on a bit of a budget. The Warthog is aimed at those who can afford to spend £280+£150 and get the best.

EDIT:
I may have just ordered these:


Shipping in June/July. Be gone, Saitek Pro Flight Combat pedals! (PS: I'll happily flog the Saiteks to somebody in need?)
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Old 30th Mar 2015, 16:31   #60
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I've done that a couple of times in ED while setting up my mappings, though not as bad as when I boosted inside a station directly into another ship... I'm so glad I was on solo play, that would have properly pissed off a fellow human commander.
My mate and me were having a LAN party. He has Voice attack setup for Elite. When he was in the toilet, I changed his command for ‘Raise Landing Gear’ so that it activates his boost. It took him an hour and and two new ships to work out what the hell was up!
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