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Old 29th Sep 2016, 01:09   #61
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rense is pretty bias going the otherway, but interesting and important to counter balance mainstream. the way he paints it, she is the devil in carnet (spelling?) which is ott.

Trump has his faults, he stuffed several contractors on a well delivered project, filing bankrupticy, ignoring vaild claims for payment. He has also not returned to those debts even when in the black by moral compass.

Hillary has a lot of issues, some serious.
Climbing to top of the heap in Washington is pretty infamous as being a term or idea that you are completely treterious with zero scruples at all.

No body can say she is an honest truthfull person. She lies as easly as fish urinate in the sea. She has also sold her time for donations whilst in office.

One point i read recently is, she has agreed the clinton foundation be closed if she is elected president(no more donations). Well thats fine but what diffetence does it make, she ran runs it while in office.

The question people have to ask themselves is, is trump the lesser of two evils? Does one roll the dice on trump?

Abstaining from voting is also a legal option i Believe out there.

Trump has a bias media to fight up hill against. Every trick and smart editting in use. Pretty worrying what ever the topic or who or what is in play.

He is impressive.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 07:03   #62
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The biggest problem with Trump is that sniff of his.

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Old 29th Sep 2016, 10:54   #63
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rense is pretty bias going the otherway, but interesting and important to counter balance mainstream. the way he paints it, she is the devil in carnet (spelling?) which is ott.
That is like saying fantasy is an important counter to scientific argument.

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The question people have to ask themselves is, is trump the lesser of two evils? Does one roll the dice on trump?
Depends. Do you want a career politician or a megalomaniac man-child who spouts wild promises of unicorns with no plan? Sound familiar? Who was it in the end who had to save the day after the lumpenproletariat voted Brexit? Pro tip: it was a career politician. The man-children Farage and Johnson ran for the hills, and Gove and Leadsom ****ed up before they left the starting blocks.

If Trump wins, expect four years of bluster and lame excuses for why he hasn't done anything important yet. Unless he presses the red button in a fit of pique.

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Trump has a bias media to fight up hill against. Every trick and smart editting in use. Pretty worrying what ever the topic or who or what is in play.

He is impressive.
Actually the media loves him. He makes good story. The only thing that impresses about this situation is how democracy is utterly failed by the stupidity of the electorate.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 10:57   #64
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If Trump wins, expect four years of bluster and lame excuses for why he hasn't done anything important yet. Unless he presses the red button in a fit of pique.
Four years of America doing nothing important would be a nice lull for the rest of the world. A welcome respite.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 11:30   #65
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Unfortunately Trump's neoconservative friends have other plans.

Note that the neocons take a dim view of Trump's admiration of dictators like Putin and Abdel Fattah al-Sisi. They rather see him as a useful idiot like George Bush Jr. was, except even more so because in political terms he is a na´ve man-child with zero experience and understanding of how Washington works. He is used to being a big fish, being deferred to for his largely self-constructed mythical status as business mogul, but he'll find that in Washington he will have no capital at all, and not a clue of what to do.

So how does a narcissist like him survive? Why, let others do all the hard work and make sure to be seen to take the credit. So he will be happy to be the figurehead of whatever neoconservative agenda is put into effect, much like he licenced the Trump name to be used by many businesses that he actually has only a tenuous connection to. His business success is largely built on turning the Trump™ name into a brand, and he will continue this previously successful strategy in politics: endorsement by President Trump™.

So what does this mean? The article above suggests that post-Brexit UK will become the 51st State of America in Europe, a tool for its continued economic and military projection across the world. With all the crap that involves for Britain. You think Blair's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq were bad? Wait until you get a load of May under Trump.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 11:31   #66
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I'm willing to roll the dice on Trump, as the outcome is atleast uncertain and could have - allthough with only a very small chance - a positive outcome.
With Hillary we allready know what we'll get. We'll get the same old corporate facism we've had for the last 30-40 years.

And then again. There's allways the congress and the senate, who will keep the Donald in checks, so I'm actually not too worried of him causing that much damage.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 11:44   #67
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Didn't work out so well with George Bush Jr.

People in the UK voted for Brexit for the same reason: things are bad the way they are now, so at least a change, any change has got to be better. I mean, it can't get any worse, can it?

Except that things can always get worse, and now it looks like they will. So bad in fact, that the government still does not have a plan, won't pull the trigger on Article 50 and the only politicians who argue for doing so have by any objective measure already demonstrated that they have no grasp at all of the facts.

Trump will not be the change you expect. He is not about change; that's not how Trump works. Trump is a brand: something for people to project on and for corporations --and their political party-- to wield as a charm to enchant the consumer/voter.

It will be much, much more of the very same, very bad things. Much more so than Clinton.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 11:56   #68
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... May under Trump.
Now that's an image I really didn't need...
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 14:03   #69
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Fearmongering doesn't help at all. All this talk about Trump launching nukes is absolutely laughable.
Dr Strange Love: Or How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb and embrace the fear porn.



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One is a psychopath and career criminal, the other suffers from attention seeking disorder and ADD.

Lies.
Either one claiming the other lies and cheats - including their respective supporters - is basically the pot calling the kettle black.

Pick a new battleground.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 16:09   #70
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Lies.
Either one claiming the other lies and cheats - including their respective supporters - is basically the pot calling the kettle black.
I read one lied more than the other though, IIRC fact checkers said one got their facts wrong 43 times and the other 3, I'll let you guess whose who.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 16:52   #71
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Didn't work out so well with George Bush Jr.

People in the UK voted for Brexit for the same reason: things are bad the way they are now, so at least a change, any change has got to be better. I mean, it can't get any worse, can it?

Except that things can always get worse, and now it looks like they will. So bad in fact, that the government still does not have a plan, won't pull the trigger on Article 50 and the only politicians who argue for doing so have by any objective measure already demonstrated that they have no grasp at all of the facts.

Trump will not be the change you expect. He is not about change; that's not how Trump works. Trump is a brand: something for people to project on and for corporations --and their political party-- to wield as a charm to enchant the consumer/voter.

It will be much, much more of the very same, very bad things. Much more so than Clinton.
I don't care if things get worse. I actually think they'll get allmost as worse under Hillary. I also don't think that Trump brings alot of change, but I expect things to get so much more worse than they are, that people will actually start to revolt. Bernie tried it, but the system didn't even give him a fair chance.

So at this point I really want to see the whole system burn down, as it's beyond fixable. We need a new system (political and economical), and to get there we need a revolution. A revolution won't happen however, if we keep people like Clinton at the top.

Let's get this sh** over with.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 17:07   #72
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There's only one problem with letting it all burn, the people in their castles come away smelling of roses, seeing how they live in stone castles and everyone else lives in wooden shacks.

In case that's to cryptic, all burning the system down will do is concentrate wealth, and by extension power, with those that already have lots of it as money and power afford you protections normal people can't afford.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 18:59   #73
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So at this point I really want to see the whole system burn down, as it's beyond fixable. We need a new system (political and economical), and to get there we need a revolution. A revolution won't happen however, if we keep people like Clinton at the top.
Historically revolutions has never worked because they have always taken place within the very system they sought to change, therefore the result has always been: Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

For a revolution to work it would have to take place outside of the system itself which at this point in time would be impossible to achieve because most people are dependent on it for their very survival to begin with. Think: Electricity, water and food.

With this in mind I don't see any - meaningful - revolution happen in any foreseeable future.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 20:49   #74
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I don't care if things get worse...

...Let's get this sh** over with.
Seems it's true then: the Fins are the happiest people in the world.

Corky42 and Wallet are right. A revolt of the people usually ends in a bloody mess, from which the next demagogue arises like a phoenix from the ashes.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 21:50   #75
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Doesn't change the fact that the whole system needs a change. And I never mentioned it to be a bloody revolution. All I said was, that the system needs to come crushing down, so that people are actually willing to try something new.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 22:02   #76
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Yes it does, and no it won't happen. And revolutions always end up being messy, or bloody, or both, and in the end may result in different politicians, but the same ****.

Because the system is the way it is for a reason: people being people. People change on an evolutionary time scale (i.e. very slowly), so we'll end up with the same result every time.
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Old 29th Sep 2016, 22:46   #77
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That's why I usually don't leave the house, if I don't have to. As soon as I step outside I see stoopid people trapped in their ways.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 09:20   #78
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Doesn't change the fact that the whole system needs a change. And I never mentioned it to be a bloody revolution. All I said was, that the system needs to come crushing down, so that people are actually willing to try something new.
The best way, if there can be such a thing, would be an evolution not a revolution.

A revolution results in a replacement that often repeats the mistakes of the past, an evolution, when done correctly, kills off the bad and prevents it from returning while keeping the good.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 10:58   #79
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That's why I usually don't leave the house, if I don't have to. As soon as I step outside I see stoopid people trapped in their ways.
I think that outlook sums up the alt right. It's all very Catcher In The Rye.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 12:59   #80
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Funnily enough it's actually the alt-right that's the most stoopid and trapped. And the far left isn't any better with their approach to regulate everything to death and tell people how to live their lives.

I consider myself a conservative leftwing liberal.
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