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Old 19th Feb 2017, 17:45   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyRhys View Post
Yep - that's probably the biggest appeal with Ryzen... not so much the CPUs by themselves but the actual bundle prices.
Agreed:

6900k £1000.
Midrange X99 Board £300.

1800x £475.
Randomly guessed AM4 board price £200.

That is a "free" GTX 1080 territory of savings.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 18:05   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyRhys View Post
Yep - that's probably the biggest appeal with Ryzen... not so much the CPUs by themselves but the actual bundle prices.
It always boils down to - 'be better or be cheaper', if you're both you're laughing, if you're neither you're screwed. AMD look to have managed both with Ryzen, just hope poor availability doesn't ruin it.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 18:09   #163
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Not just system tweaks. You can alter the size of each square that renders, and have it render a much smaller picture; therefore increasing the speed of the render and reducing the time, leading to an inflated score.

All top benchmark scores over on HWBOT used to be "tweaked" in this way.

CB, both R11.5 and R15, benefit from RAM performance, and by quite a large amount depending on where you start and finish.

However, upon looking at the screenshot more closely, it would appear that the render size has not been changed in those blocks. It doesn't mean that they weren't changed anywhere else, but I'm fairly confident in it being a legitimate result.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 18:13   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
Not just system tweaks. You can alter the size of each square that renders, and have it render a much smaller picture; therefore increasing the speed of the render and reducing the time, leading to an inflated score.

All top benchmark scores over on HWBOT used to be "tweaked" in this way.
Sneaky

Pointless cheating really but very sneaky none the less.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 18:31   #165
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Sneaky

Pointless cheating really but very sneaky none the less.
If it's even vaguely competitive, people will try and cheat...
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 19:08   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield View Post
Agreed:

6900k £1000.
Midrange X99 Board £300.

1800x £475.
Randomly guessed AM4 board price £200.

That is a "free" GTX 1080 territory of savings.
The price of Intel's high-end multi-core CPUs is just laughable. If I had wanted an 8-core setup I'd certainly have waited for Ryzen, however deciding to stay with 6 cores made it an easy decision for me.

Intel logic:

£400 for 6 cores
£1000 for 8 cores
£1600 for 10 cores

Yup, that'll do it.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 20:13   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyRhys View Post
The price of Intel's high-end multi-core CPUs is just laughable. If I had wanted an 8-core setup I'd certainly have waited for Ryzen, however deciding to stay with 6 cores made it an easy decision for me.

Intel logic:

£400 for 6 cores
£1000 for 8 cores
£1600 for 10 cores

Yup, that'll do it.
Yup and the hilarious part is you can score a 10 core 20 thread Xeon for X79 (Ivy) for about £150 or so.

No wonder people went bonkers for the 2670 (Sandy 8 core). £70 gets you a poor man's 5960x !

What's like really sad though is that Intel have been making massively cored CPUs for years now. They did 10 on Ivy, 12 or more on Haswell and now they are up to something daft like 24 on Broadwell/Skylake E.

Yet the desktop market gets 4 cores 8 threads max.

Surely once all of the research/dev is done these CPUs can't really be that much more expensive to make with more cores? surely it's just more wafer?

It's a shame. I mean I was using two CPUs in 1999. He we are 18 years later and entry level is still two cores with two HT threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
Not just system tweaks. You can alter the size of each square that renders, and have it render a much smaller picture; therefore increasing the speed of the render and reducing the time, leading to an inflated score.

All top benchmark scores over on HWBOT used to be "tweaked" in this way.

CB, both R11.5 and R15, benefit from RAM performance, and by quite a large amount depending on where you start and finish.

However, upon looking at the screenshot more closely, it would appear that the render size has not been changed in those blocks. It doesn't mean that they weren't changed anywhere else, but I'm fairly confident in it being a legitimate result.
lmao that's hilarious I always abhorred cheating.. Used to ruin a good game of Monopoly as well.

TBH dude I think this "leak" is no such thing. I think this was all planned out by AMD and may be why we have a photo showing the squares and score instead of just a PRTSCRN of the score side.

Adored reckons that basically AMD will now stage these "leaks" very carefully to draw people in for launch. Very crafty
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 20:17   #168
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^ Yep that's a really good point - it's all about profit margins and arbitrary monetary boundaries.

I did (very briefly) consider the 2670 except that it wasn't much of an upgrade in terms of technology; at least with the 5820K I get pretty much all the mod cons that my X58 system lacked, like DDR4, native SATA 3, M.2, USB 3.1, and so on. Best of all, in two years time (or less) I can upgrade to a 6950X when they are going for £100 on ebay.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 20:24   #169
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Yeah only problem with the Xeons is they can't be overclocked. You can mess with the BCLK but that is dependent on board and my X79 UD3 would not even have a 101 bus. It just black screened with no POST.

And yeah, Intel CPU prices especially second hand are going to fall through the floor. Funny thing is OCUK have just upgraded their forums and removed the market place, so I bet loads of people are panicking like crazy right now

That was why I decided to buy my 5820k when I did. It was about six months after launch, BINs had improved and you could get higher clocks and yeah, that was nearly two years ago. No plans to sell it or even so much as touch it. It can grow old now

Ryzen does make me happy though because I know that if either of my rigs go pop I can easily put back in a comparable board and CPU for much less money.
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 21:56   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vault-Tec View Post
Ryzen does make me happy though because I know that if either of my rigs go pop I can easily put back in a comparable board and CPU for much less money.
I'll just be happy to see Intel take one in the boll*cks personally
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Old 19th Feb 2017, 22:16   #171
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Only thing really left is gaming numbers.
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 03:23   #172
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Given that Ryzen can keep up with Intel on CPU benchmarks, it will be comparable in gaming benchmarks too.
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 07:40   #173
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Most games still want a fast single thread, 7600k is ahead of all Intel chips at stock and by a decent margin when compared to the 6 / 8 / 10 core parts.

I read something on another forum that seemed pretty accurate Zen could become the default chip for users using software that can use the cores / threads on offer. With Intels 7600k keeping the best chip for gamers tag.

Personally I think if the above is true that would be good for AMD in servers ect. Which would be good for there survival.
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 08:31   #174
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Back in the day when i bought a q6600 I was told I was wasting money and should buy the dual core 6850 ( I think it was that) but in the end the quad core easily outlasted the dual core so this time around I will go with my gut feeling again and get a 6 or 8 core ryzen
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 13:06   #175
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And now the motherboards are breaking the surface



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Old 20th Feb 2017, 13:09   #176
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Nice one. Hadn't seen the MSI Tit yet. I do like the Asrock boards.

http://hothardware.com/news/asrock-x...n-motherboards

Most notably the one with the white K on, and the way they have put Ryzen on the IO cover (yeah I am a tart )

Looks like board manus are going all out. Also, that $60 MSI board.. If that supports the 6 core then that would be awesome. I know you couldn't OC it but it should still be plenty potent without an OC.
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 13:09   #177
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Quote:
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Most games still want a fast single thread, 7600k is ahead of all Intel chips at stock and by a decent margin when compared to the 6 / 8 / 10 core parts.

I read something on another forum that seemed pretty accurate Zen could become the default chip for users using software that can use the cores / threads on offer. With Intels 7600k keeping the best chip for gamers tag.

Personally I think if the above is true that would be good for AMD in servers ect. Which would be good for there survival.
Yes, we've been here before. There has to be a twist, it just hasn't been revealed yet.

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Old 20th Feb 2017, 13:21   #178
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Most games still want a fast single thread, 7600k is ahead of all Intel chips at stock and by a decent margin when compared to the 6 / 8 / 10 core parts.

I read something on another forum that seemed pretty accurate Zen could become the default chip for users using software that can use the cores / threads on offer. With Intels 7600k keeping the best chip for gamers tag.
Many if not all of the recent games I have begrudgingly bought have wanted four cores or would not run. I don't even know if they would deem an I3 as acceptable? probably.

Any way we haven't heard anything at all about the 4c 4t AMD or the 4c 8t AMD. Nothing at all so far, not even a single bench. Of course, it will depend how they overclock I guess. Intel do have a lead in that regard I would think? given they have been shrinking/working on the same tech for ages.

One thing I do not expect *at all* out of Ryzen is for it to clock anywhere near as high as Kaby. That is one thing I think Intel are still going to win on.

Whether or not that will encourage people to spend double, and then more on a board? I guess only time will tell tbh.

I know AMD came out and said they were not going to do this "tick tick" nonsense that Intel have been doing. The past shows that they could refine a chip quite well, Vishera was indeed 15% faster than whatever Bulldozer was called.

I mentioned it before (but hey, being the repetitive sod I am I will say it again).

Last month in CPC they did a build using an I3 and a GTX 1050. It came to £697. That is what I would call total basic entry level for gaming these days. Heck, I would want a 480/1060 in mine ! But the price is just insane.

I remember BITD when I bought an Athlon XP2000+ (and overclocked it to the 2300+ speed) with a Shuttle Nforce board (gorgeous board for the time) and a Radeon 9200 Pro. It was more than enough to demolish NFSU and Doom. I did, however, upgrade to a 5950 Ultra that I got in a pricing error for $140.

Any way, back to the point. That rig cost me less than $400 all in. The GPU cost me $130 (the Radeon not the 5950u). Any way I could play all of the latest greatest games with no issues at all.

So that entry level gaming PC price has now doubled. Let's cast our minds back a few years where you could buy a Radeon 7850 and I3 Clarkdale (that overclocked) for around the same figure. £350-£400. So again, that has doubled.

It's just too much man. A entry level gaming PC needs to cost less than the comparable console *and* be capable of producing better graphics. That is why PC gamers stuck to their PCs when the consoles came along and will probably remain the same (even though new games don't look much better than DX11 games etc).

So yeah, if a mate saw me play for example Dead Rising 3, then asked me to build a PC for him to play it on I would imagine he would have a face like a smacked arse if I then told him it was going to cost £700.

That's just ridiculous.

I've also got a few mates who are wanting to upgrade, but I can't even get them a decent spec without it costing like £400 just for the board, ram and CPU.

Yeah, too much man. PC gaming has a real opportunity of taking back a huge chunk of the gaming market *if* the games are cheaper and look better.
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 15:01   #179
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One thing I do not expect *at all* out of Ryzen is for it to clock anywhere near as high as Kaby. That is one thing I think Intel are still going to win on.
While I agree that it most likely won't oc as well as Kaby, Ryzen starts at a much lower price than Kabys that can oc, the R3 1100 will only cost around the same as the locked down dual core i3-7100 which is roughly half of the 7600k.

The problem will be mostly for the midrange Ryzen chips that will get utterly slaughtered in gaming by the 7600k which hits 5ghz with zero effort making it hard to justify £200+ for 6 core Ryzen if its going to be used solely for gaming.

Of course if gaming is not the sole purpose the favour should in theory swing back to Ryzen due to more cores for less money.
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Old 20th Feb 2017, 15:13   #180
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Yeah, it'll be horses for courses by the sounds of things - if single-core performance is paramount then Intel will be the way to go, but if your use case scales with more cores then Ryzen will be the better option.

My concern, as someone who's looking to buy an ITX board and CPU in the next couple of weeks, is that there don't look to be many mITX Ryzen boards in the works any time soon, which is disappointing. There's still time for a couple of good mITX boards to pop out of the woodwork but I can't wait several months for them to materialise if they're not available at launch.
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