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Old 28th Apr 2017, 11:20   #161
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It's all getting rather political, isn't it?
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 12:03   #162
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Remember that at the end of the day, you're voting for your local MP. Not for a party, and certainly not a a prime minister, but for the person who is supposed to be representing your interests in parliament. This isn't the US!
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 12:11   #163
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Originally Posted by edzieba View Post
Remember that at the end of the day, you're voting for your local MP. Not for a party, and certainly not a a prime minister, but for the person who is supposed to be representing your interests in parliament. This isn't the US!
In theory, yes. In practice, no. And if May gets her way this will be the US in all but name.
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 18:07   #164
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I have never voted tactically but there again i rarely vote.
Wait, you are one of the loudest complainants on this forum about the state of affairs in this country, and you don't vote?!?

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I think it is long overdue that there should be an extra tick box which has something along the lines 'None of the above.' It might help politicians to rethink they way that they are 'economic with the truth' when it comes to electioneering.
So what does the government do if the majority of people vote for "none of the above"? Let's all go home and let the country run itself?

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Though to be honest most if not all and that includes my local councillors could not give a sh*** what the people in the poorer parts of theirs towns and cities think. We have local elections here in Edinburgh next week and I have not got a clue who is running for election but I do know that the incumbent councillors made it pretty clear to me when I approached them with issues that they were not particularly interested and if I got more than a one line response to my email I should consider myself fortunate indeed.
Well if you don't vote, why should they care what you think?
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 18:27   #165
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Wait, you are one of the loudest complainants on this forum about the state of affairs in this country, and you don't vote?!?
Really?

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So what does the government do if the majority of people vote for "none of the above"? Let's all go home and let the country run itself
The same as what the do now when the 40% do not vote, since when has the ordinary persons vote mattered anyway?

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if you don't vote, why should they care what you think?
So that is the reason they do not give a sh*** about the plebs? Although I did say rarely which as far as I can remember from English lessons is not the same as never. But who am I to question an intelligent man such as yourself?
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 18:51   #166
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Really?
That is certainly my impression. Not that I think your complaints are not valid, but I just expected you to be, well, a bit more politically involved.

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The same as what the do now when the 40% do not vote, since when has the ordinary persons vote mattered anyway?
Since the EU Referendum? That certainly didn't go as the government planned... but despite it being an advisory referendum that was not legally binding and therefore did not have to be acted on, here we are, Brexiting, despite the majority of MPs being opposed to the whole idea. Because democracy.

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So that is the reason they do not give a sh*** about the plebs?
Yeah, kinda. If you don't use your democratic power in an informed manner, politicians will just lie to you. If you don't use them in a mature manner, politicians will just tell you what you want to hear. If you don't use them in a committed manner, politicians will ignore you.
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 19:26   #167
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If you don't use your democratic power in an informed manner, politicians will just lie to you. If you don't use them in a mature manner, politicians will just tell you what you want to hear. If you don't use them in a committed manner, politicians will ignore you.
If you do use it, though, they tend to do all of the above while pissing in your cornflakes and calling it milk.
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 21:29   #168
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Not if you keep doing it.

This is what we psychologists call a reciprocal dynamic. If politicians find that people really think carefully about who they vote for, and don't buy the lies, and moreover have adult expectations of what is possible and what is wise, then they will cater to that electorate to get the vote or lose it.

But the electorate chooses charisma and fairytales and jingoist hype over substance. So that is what it gets, every time.

It's like eating McDonald's every day and then wanting to sue the company for getting fat. Yeah, people have done that. We call them stupid assholes.
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Old 28th Apr 2017, 22:29   #169
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We call them stupid assholes.
One NICE guideline everyone can get behind.

Going back to tactical voting, nothing wrong with it in a FPTP system, due to the nature of the beast people have to work as a mass.

Now if we had a system based on some form of PR that may be a different matter but then people may actually feel their own vote may make a difference.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 00:35   #170
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Sadly the "say no to AV, because you're too stupid to understand it" campaign was disturbingly effective.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 00:46   #171
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I got the impression that some people saw tactical voting as gaming the system (cheating) and/or possibly voting for a party whose policies they don't agree with, like voting for Lib Dem in Eastbourne even if you don't agree with their policies.

The morals thing wasn't about MP's morals, or the lack of them, it was about the morals of the person casting the vote and how comfortable people would be voting for a party they don't agree with in the hope that doing so would produce a specific result.
See that's what I really don't get as there is no rule stating you have to vote for a certain candidate, it's a free choice. Show me a person that agrees with every single policy a party or a person they vote for and I'll be amazed.
The only questionable thing I've seen done in elections is vote swapping but tbh I don't start calling it immoral or cheating.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 08:59   #172
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Yes to everything you said, i was just curious if there were large numbers of people who, for example, would vote for a party they disliked in order to prevent a party they hated from being elected, i guess that would mean if someone would vote for Lib Dem or UKIP despite disliking them in order to prevent a Labour or Conservative government.

I know one thing for sure though, if i have to put up with another 5 weeks of hearing 'strong and stable' and 'coalition of chaos' I'm going to go nuts, although it does make for a fun drinking game.

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Old 29th Apr 2017, 10:23   #173
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I know one thing for sure though, if i have to put up with another 5 weeks of hearing 'strong and stable' and 'coalition of chaos' I'm going to go nuts, although it does make for a fun drinking game.
I like it when they sternly tell us what's "right", or what "the right thing to do is...".
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 11:49   #174
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Unfortunately I'm in a Tory safe seat over 50% so I may as well be pissing in the wind with my vote.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 13:59   #175
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Yes to everything you said, i was just curious if there were large numbers of people who, for example, would vote for a party they disliked in order to prevent a party they hated from being elected, i guess that would mean if someone would vote for Lib Dem or UKIP despite disliking them in order to prevent a Labour or Conservative government.

I know one thing for sure though, if i have to put up with another 5 weeks of hearing 'strong and stable' and 'coalition of chaos' I'm going to go nuts, although it does make for a fun drinking game.
Happens every time in NI voting. For example person A gets in and the vote transfers. If you calculate the transfers correctly this can aid Person B. For example DUP votes normally transfer to UUP. Sinn Fein normally transfer to SDLP.

If parties haven't got their distribution correct then you can get a situation where none of their candidates have enough to be eliminated but also not enough to get elected. This leaves them in a no mans land waiting for a colleague to get elected to transfer or risk getting eliminated late on to get their colleague in the last seat.

Unfortunately in FPTP all you can hope is your vote will be enough to push one of the other parties running into the seat. Voting for a third or Fourth party basically is hoping both the main parties are too unpopular and won't just transfer between each other.

I can honestly see the Tories increasing their vote as Labour are toxic, UKIP are irrelevant. Lib Dem vote is an unknown. I can see Labour vote increasing too at the cost of other parties but growth will come from Wales and Scotland. Lib Dems vote will pick up but I can't see them picking but I donno if it will win them seats and if it does I can see it hurting Labour more than the Tories.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 15:33   #176
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Despite the Conservatives lead in the polls i wouldn't say an increase in seats is a certain thing for them, I'm not sure how much the polls have taken into account how constituencies and voters Brexit choice could effect things.

Most polling data I've read is extrapolated from an admittedly carefully selected, supposedly, representative group of people, however I'm unsure how much a group of 1-1.5k carefully selected representative people can represent constituencies that voted strongly in favor or leave or remain.

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I like it when they sternly tell us what's "right", or what "the right thing to do is...".
I've gone out to buy a pint of milk 4 times this morning and keep finding myself back home without said pint of milk.

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Old 29th Apr 2017, 17:20   #177
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Unfortunately I'm in a Tory safe seat over 50% so I may as well be pissing in the wind with my vote.
Same here, but I'm going to vote anyway. There's no excuse not to, even lazyness (postal voting is great).
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 07:59   #178
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Same here, but I'm going to vote anyway. There's no excuse not to, even lazyness (postal voting is great).
Agreed. Not voting is not voting no!
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 10:02   #179
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Seeing as most politicians are caging this GE as a brexit GE I've taken the liberty of quoting a video posted in the E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts. in the serious section.

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I for one welcome my strong and stable government all the while we're conducting foreign negotiations, it's in the national interest that everyone gets behind the one and only government that's strong and stable and anyone who doesn't deserves a wedgie.
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 10:10   #180
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Whilst looking to see who would be standing for election in my constituency, we are currently served by a totally useless SNP MP who replaced an even more useless Labour MP but I think we have to wait until May 11 for the deadline for submitting an application.

As for my local elections, due next week,, we have had no literature, no visits from prospective candidates in fact nothing at all to indicate who the candidates are which is pretty much par for my area.
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