I'm not asking people whether they think the allegations are true... I just want to know what people think about the way in which this is being done. He's been dead for almost a year, ffs... let him be, child sex abuser or not. Thoughts?
Personally I think that's an obscene statement. It doesn't matter how long someone has been dead for. The victims are not dead are they? Should they just let it be?
What do you mean by "the way this is being done"? If he was indeed a sex abuser, his victims deserve justice and acknowledgement of the crimes committed against them. As Zinfandel says: they still have to live with the memories and consequences.
"The way this is being done" - i.e. accusations being made against the guy when he cannot defend himself. Everybody deserves the right to defend themselves. And I agree completely that if he was a sex abuser, his victims deserved justice... but unfortunately it's too late for them to get it now. Do they deserve the acknowledgement of the crimes committed against them? If these crimes actually were committed, then yes, but that has yet to be ascertained and proven. Of what use is acknowledging crimes that are hearsay based on a handful of testimonies? It's useful to the media, that's for sure! @ Zinfandel, I agree that it doesn't matter how long someone's been dead for - accusing them will never result in a trial. So once again, why drag somebody's name through the dirt after they're dead? To what end?
While I agree if the allegations are true then just must be done in spite of the accused being dead, I find it odd that rather than go through police and court system first they appear to have sold their stories to the Sun and ITV. But maybe i'm just being too cynical.
Exactly! You're not being cynical at all... we're talking about the media here, not the justice system.
Your position appears contradictory. You prioritise the reputation of a man who is dead and therefore has no feelings about the matter and cannot be hurt, over the possible injustice done to people who are still very much alive and suffering as a consequence. If a man's reputation matters regardless of whether he is dead, then the acts he committed deserve to be judged regardless of whether he is dead. Victims of a crime still deserve acknowledgement and justice, whether the perpetrator can be punished or not. Of course there has to be due process, but if a number of victims are stepping forward to make similar allegations, notice has to be taken. Nobody admits to being a sex abuse victim just for a bit of publicity.
Because some people think it's justice. I'm not so sure. I have a personal opinion here, brought about by many years of counseling and getting to see the worst that humanity has to offer. My opinion is not exactly popular, but it's also based in part on own personal experiences with abuse as well. Society needs to get over it. This does not mean the victim does. I mean the "you're entitled to never move on and give up and just let your life fall apart. You can refuse to deal with the issue. Hell, go ahead and blame everything that happens from here on out on it." I see too many family members that sabotage the work abuse victims fight so hard for by telling them that they can't get over it when the victim is already making strides toward living again. It's the same people who want to deny the mentally ill treatment, the ones that run the witch hunts and destroy people with false accusations. Do you ever forget? Hell no. Hell no. And that isn't what I'm trying to say. If the victim wanted that, if it's justice in their eyes, it's one thing. That's part of the healing process. But the people who weren't involved at all? Butt out. There's nobody to save here-the person who did it is dead. It's not the same as a living perpetrator. I still support people knowing there-too many need a warning sign around their necks (and alternately, there are so many that don't reoffend, because their crime was technically simply being accused in a country where the laws ruin you if you're found innocent, even.) But what justice can society wring from the grave? If the victims wanted it, that's one thing. But when my mother died, I didn't make a huge scene about what she did while she was alive. I nearly died at her hands, and it took reconstructive surgery just to make me look kind of like everyone else. If anyone had a problem with her, I (and my brother) did. But why? I can't keep her from doing it again. Death is doing that for me. I can't put her in jail (or a mental hospital, in her case.) Death put her somewhere far away from people anyway. All I do at that point is announce to the world that she won in the end. That she was more powerful than me. And I damn well refuse to let that be true. I can't erase the past-but I can carry on anyway. And it is in that that I win. Let the victims decide. It's their nightmare to end, not everyone else's. This is just an opinion. The only facts that I can prove in this are the ones from my own life and experiences. You don't like my opinion, that's fine-I don't mind you disagreeing. The only thing I ask is that you consider that I've had to see these cases in a professional capacity for a long time, in addition to living through one. Don't care if you call me names, don't care what you say about me. I support the wishes of the victims, but the rest of society can go hang itself.
1) I agree that IF its true it should be admitted and open in the public, the people who were abused should not have to live in hiding. HOWEVER 2) It should have been proved before someone decided to make a TV show about it. And Jimmy should have been around to deny or admit it, at least to his family. Imagine having to spend the rest of your life wondering if your uncle/brother/father/son was a pedophile just because ITV wanted to get some better ratings. edit: And as for KayinBlack's ninja just then. Wow, thats very much what I believe about society needing to butt out. Very well put.
I don't have an issue with bringing up these allegations when he's dead, but why were they never seriously brought up when he was alive?
@ Nexxo, I don't give a toss about Saville's reputation; I'm just curious what people hope to achieve by doing this...now, when he's already dead and gone. Why? Justice? Nope, justice would have been to see him tried, proven guilty, and punished; that cannot happen now. Lance hit the nail on the head for me and probably said it better than I did: the media takes the reins on this one, and that's far from justice.
What the difference between going public now or 10/20 years ago, not much apart from the fact that now, The defendant is not able to defend themselves and someone is going to try and make some money (and I'm not talking about any alleged victim) From when the claims were reportedly made (1970's) and dismissed by a police investigation until even just before he died, I find it hard to believe in the age of mass media coverage that the victims didn't try to seek justice and compensation when he was alive. This almost angers me as much as abuse itself, Have we as a society failed to provide victims with enough support and encouragement to come forward without fear? We've been seeing plenty of cases coming forward (publicly) in the last 20 years to give anyone confidence to come forward with claims of abuse and get public support and justice served. It would be a shame if he wasn't the person he was in my eyes, The guy invented the role of DJ and made massive contributions to charity his whole life, I used to watch his TV shows when I was a kid. On the flip side I have no tolerance for abusers. A few things about this are not making sense and It's still early days yet, So I'm not going make any final judgements on the guy.
Sexual abuse is a tricky issue. It is not as clear-cut as physical abuse, where at least there are the bruises and cracked ribs to show for it. It concerns a subject that society finds difficult to talk about --as any film or TV program will show you, violence is an easier topic than sex. Child victims do not have the knowledge or vocabulary to know exactly why what is happening feels wrong, how to deal with it and how to express it. Most child sexual abuse happens within the family. The rest is often committed by trusted people in a position of authority. If what such a person did to you feels wrong, but you're not sure why, and cannot explain exactly what (s)he did, and you worry that you're not going to be believed over this trusted person of authority who talks smoothly, behaves confidently and self-assuredly, makes you believe that you've got it wrong somehow, then how easy is it to speak up? From what I can gather with Jimmy Saville, many people in his professional circle appeared to know something was going on. There were stories. But regardless of whether they were true, nobody acted on them; he was too powerful, too popular, there was too much at stake. He was big business, after all. Sure, this is another opportunistic media feeding frenzy, and most likely the victims will get little satisfaction from it. But that is not the point you were making. You were suggesting that because he was dead and unable to defend himself, we should just let it rest. I am arguing that if the allegations are true, his victims don't necessarily feel that way and ultimately it is their feelings that matter.
I maintain that we should let it rest, first because he is dead, and second because it's not for the media to deal with - it's not their remit nor is it appropriate. I'm not defending nor prioritising Saville's reputation; I'm being realistic - the guy is dead, therefore the victims (if they sincerely are victims) will never get the justice they deserve.
It's not looking very nice. Seems there were more investigations that never amounted to much. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9580659/We-were-abused-by-Sir-Jimmy-Savile-too-More-damaging-revelations-about-the-Jimll-Fix-It-star.html So we have a dead celebrity child abuser, Employers/coworkers who knew he was doing so, And victims who have waited until after his death to come forward. In my honest opinion (right now), We have an abuse case that has been buried by employers/coworkers, victims and the authorities to keep his £40 Million in charitable funds flowing. And this has all been funded by the UK taxpayer in TV license fees. I think they should start tracing all this charitable money and see what names tip up. (follow the money ) See what charities and children's homes this money has been put into, This wouldn't be the first time charitable funds have been used by agencies associated with child abuse. (Jersey) He might be dead but I'm sure some sort of justice can be found in the tide of money that has flowed from this case, Charitable or not. I could be wrong but that's my 2p and take on this right now. Get on the phone to your local govt representatives and demand an inquiry into the WHOLE matter. EDIT: This could be the tip of the iceberg, There may be even bigger fish involved that are still alive right? I mean what other reasons (apart from money) would people not open their mouth?
Problem with that is you will end up with loads of people just after a piece of the pie. Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2
Jimmy Saville stopped being a sacred cow in the entertainment business years ago, so I'm struggling to understand why this is only being pursued now; unless, as already mentioned, there were others still in the business who were complicit in silencing/discrediting alleged victims, and still had something to lose.
He was a rich man, maybe it's the "Michael Jackson" syndrome and he paid some people to keep quiet and not press charges?
