https://twitter.com/ID_R_McGregor/status/775522458191425536 Tweet has a video in it. Just watching it has made me readdress my view on gaming violence. Acting out the stabbing motion is far too much, far too real, when combined with totally immersive VR. It's real desensitization. Keyboard, mouse and monitor or TV you can get 'into' a game but you're only ever pressing buttons. You're not acting it out.
**** is getting out of hand. That's just sick, and it gets a pass because it's fake. I like my fantasy violence to be fantasy-like as in Guild Wars 2 magic casting, not like acting out stabbing motions because I want a murder simulator. I want a Batman simulator instead.
Exactly. I get that people like FPS. I like FPS games. But competitive, hands on hyper-real action is a desensitization too far imo.
What about toy guns and swords made of actual atoms? I'm sure it'd be equally uncomfortable to watch that scene in real life with toy items...so long as the "murderer" was screaming loudly in a deranged manner with an equally claustrophobic camera angle.
This is something I want to talk about in my upcoming review of the Vive. This is just the tip of the iceberg IMHO. Problem is that we've sort of been here before - films and computer games in the past have gone through this. But in VR you're not simply mashing a button anymore. You're making the movements and the physical exertion. I think that this is where age ratings for games REALLY need to be enforced. No more buying 18+ rated games for little Johnny.
I see what you're getting at, but VR can add extra details, like blood splatter etc. I think VR would always feel more real than the equivalent in real life - which is a strange statement to make, I know!
Books: This will corrupt the youth. Didn't happen Movies: This will corrupt the youth. It's different from books, you can see it. Didn't happen. TV: This will corrupt the youth. It's different from movies, due to ease of access. Didn't happen. Video games: This will corrupt the youth. It's different from TV, they control the character. Didn't happen. VR: This will corrupt the youth. It's different from video games, you make the actions...[insert result]. My bet for the result is that kids will simply recalibrate to the new normal, and act as normally as they always have. Ain't neuroplasticity grand!
I predict this will see news coverage as games, once again, training murderers. When in actual fact, nothing really changed, the people who would kill would have killed without video games too. To say it desensitises people to the actions? Ehhh. I don't know if you've ever stabbed air vs meat, but there's a very real difference, and I don't think any amount of air stabbing with VR is going to prepare anyone for actually stabbing someone.
To play devil's advocate for a moment: you don't necessarily have to prepare anyone for the aftermath of 'stabbing meat,' just break down the mental barrier to initiating the action. By the time they've found out that stabbing a Real Person doesn't feel like the game, the Real Person already has a hole in them. Not ideal.
I was thinking more from the argument that this could "train" someone to stab without really thinking about it. Stabbing the air has a whole heap less resistance and 'fight' than a person, animal, or even inanimate bits of wood/carcass. The aftermath thing is entirely different. Either you do cope with it, or you don't. I suspect the sort of person who couldn't cope with the aftermath of a stabbing rampage might be the sort of person not to do it in the first place.
The same "train the action without consequence" logic could equally be used to demand a ban on Nerf guns or water pistols. Or plastic swords. Or improperly used plastic cutlery.
Watched the clip, wasn't worried. VR looks so janky I'd be more worried about motion sickness than anything else. The aiming physics look like they're straight out of 1998's Jurassic Park: Trespasser with the added handicap of using a Wiimote. That might be all VR games though; a quick look at YouTube and they seem to be more skybox sims than actual games. The media might make something of it but to be honest there's a lot worse available on VHS.
Lol that's amazing! Beautifully said. I would like to assume that we are raising human beings that are intelligent enough to know the difference between real and simulation. And it's not like a game played for fun and enjoyment will be traumatizing enough to spur some kind of PTSD flashback where that boundary between real and simulation is skewed. Perhaps less worry less about video games and worry more about drugs, prejudice, and general horrible human behavior that is hurtful and horrific and has existed before the games and will exist after the games which is really responsible for when things go wrong.
Great overview! I think what made that video quite disturbing was the commentary of the player, more than the actual concept of VR violence; it was like he was possessed or something... All the same, you're spot on with drawing those parallels with other forms of media that have been villified over the years.
My personal opinion (not based on real evidence as such either) is that this is true now more than ever. Go back 30+ years and negative influences kinda had to be spread via word of mouth or personal contact. People were naturally shielded by life, this obviously had both positives and negatives though. But as the internet came into our lives, the gaps started to close. Just like how people could now share great knowledge, pass skills along and get to know new people from other cultures, you could also seek out like minded people, no matter what you were searching for. Again, early days this was still separated largely by life. Generally techy people had the means and know how to connect. So regardless of what those people were like, there was a barrier to entry meaning fewer people in general. Nowadays though, we're all connected and it's very easy to search up like minded individuals. That's brilliant for hobbies, games communities or local interests. But what if somebody has just had an awful day and come back feeling like the world hates them? Well now it's fairly easy to find others who've had the same stuff happen, you can identify and become part of a community. The problem here is how do you discern whether this is ultimately destructive or helpful. They might find a self help group who get them through it, or they could find a suicide aid forum. It's not that this couldn't be done before, but with greater numbers you might expect more instances of it. You can see this really clearly in areas like recreational drug use. There's no denying weed is really popular, it has a very strong online community. But if you hang around a tame place like those on reddit for even a short while you'll notice how the trend is going towards simple acceptance of most drugs in general. I mean things like people mixing acid into joints or spicing up their mixes with all manner of substances, we're not talking full on Pablo Escobar by any means. But if you take a community like that and it just remains insular, constantly telling each other everything's okay, eventually you can get problems as people start running out of reserves of refusal. People like to go on about joining loads of clubs and societies at school/uni etc. But it would be nice if the same logic were applied to online use. Spreading yourself out a little helps to keep your perspective intact. It's very easy to go along with a single way of thinking if that's the view of most of the people around you.
Meh. I 'look forward' to the Fox news coverage and bogus research that is no doubt on the way saying that VR games turn decent everyday folk into psychotic nutters. Also, I cannot shake feeling that CuriousGeorge and neilardo are the same person...
I don't stab people to death, but it's not because I don't know how to do a stabbing action. It's because I don't want the grief of having to duck the law/go to prison for the rest of my life, and because I don't know anyone who I feel me stabbing them to death would particularly advantage me. No VR is ever going to change that reasoning.
