What are your views on Scotland independence referendum, especially after Salmond was told to hold it until the end of 2014? Also, who do you think should be entitled to vote? (couldn't find a thread like this, in case I'm wrong feel free to delete/merge)
Personally, if the Scots want to choose, then give them the right to vote on it. We English might finally be able to permanently instate BST!
All the Scotts I know (My other half and her family mainly) are very much anti independence. From what I can see the only people voting for independence are the die hard nationalists and the "Braveheart Generation". I think when the facts come out about the true costs of going independent the SNP will get their arses well and truly kicked.
Coming from Northern Ireland I honestly don't care. I don't know whats best for Scotland or the UK for that matter. Kinda similar to the situation here the only difference is Scotland doesn't Leech off the UK like here. Ultimately I would vote to stay in the UK, I haven't heard a conclusive argument that would make me vote for Scottish independence. Yes Scotland can do it, is it what's best? Who knows?-Thats what I would need convinced of.
I think the real point is being missed here, Scotland is a country all by its own, it has a right to be independent if it choses. The very fact that its people have to wait to get the right to vote about our own country is a joke in the 1st place.
I think there is a lack of information at this point in time to make an informed decision. What is the cost, in real money, to the Scottish people? Where will the oil money go? Will Scotland remain in the EU? Adopt the Euro? The list goes on and on, and all Salmond bangs on about is the big headline of independence as that is what will gain support. Personally I don't support independence. We're the United Kingdom, and have been since James I reigned as king back in 1603. Why do we need to stir up old hatreds and jingoism? Why can't we just accept we are now one nation, but keep our heritage? After all, many countries out there are amalgamations of others over time - shall we let Prussia come back? Or give Alsace and Lorraine to Germany...again? I lived in Scotland for a year, and the people I worked with and socialised with were anti-independence. They supported the SNP on the basis of getting a better deal for Scotland, but not the whole hog. The union doesn't stop Scotland being Scottish, and devolution helps stop all the decisions being made in Westminster. I just don't see why such a drastic step is necessary.
Once the oil money runs out and the military presence can be moved then I think it will happen, at the cost of the Scottish tax payers though and I will be happy for it to happen.
I generally agree with you, however waiting is just a part of a democratic process. I think whether or not Scotland goes independent will yield some changes. I have lived both in England and Scotland, and was not happy with the general lack of respect towards Scotland in England, which was not on the same level other way around. Most unbiased figures show that Scotland will do better economically if it manages to retain all of its assets, and even on the international arena they will enjoy almost the same standing (e.g. memberships in the EU, NATO, etc + it was already invited into the Nordic club). Campaigning has not started yet, for now all we can hear are pro-independence promotions, weirdly, there aren't much effort made by the anti-independence. Conservatives being in power doesn't make it any easier for anti-independence camp. Generally life in Scotland is better, Scotland-specific laws tend to be very innovative and (usually) end up being adopted for the whole of the UK. Civil servants (incl. police, NHS) are paid more and are generally happier (according to some statistics). What puzzles me is who will be allowed to vote? There are many Scots who do not reside in Scotland, and there are many English people residing in Scotland... same goes for birth rights, etc... There may be a large proportion of English, Welsh, etc voting, which will make result less than fair... I am from Ukraine and in 1991 we went independent from Soviet occupation, during that time we heard a lot of pro and anti-independence rhetoric, which were very similar to the present Scottish debate. For us independence was a simpler choice, however the results were seriously diluted by the Russian population which was allowed to vote, based on residency. If USSR was a nicer country that voting allowance could have easily yielded a negative and unwanted result for the Ukrainian population. Fortunately we pulled through
I'm very much in favour of self-determination where a there is a historical basis for independence (as opposed to a oil-rich province with no independent tradition trying to make a grab for all the cash which doesn't apply in this case). Obviously the ones with most to lose are the Labour party as without the (over-represented) Scottish MPs, their chances of a majority and hugely reduced.
I think Mr Salmond is largely motivated by his ego. For the rest of it, daft idea. If they vote yes the Tories will immediately (and probably fairly) hit them with Scotland's £140billion national debt, then the Bank of Scotland's £200-ish billion debt. Then they'd would either make Scotland give up fiscal control to stay in the Sterling, or else force them to peg their pound against the Euro instead of Sterling, or (unlikely but possible) force them to join the Eurozone. Mr Salmond's entire strategy seems to hinge on Scotland 'keeping' the oil fields. That might work, except they're currently controlled by the British Government and I can't see the DECC or any of the oil companies or the EU ever lifting a finger to change that. There isn't really a scenario where Scotland's independence comes in anything but name. But, whatever the answer I hope it finally makes them all shut up about it!
Don't forget Scotland is hugely out of balance when it come to public and private sector jobs. They are like 75% 25% in favor of public sector which means they would not be sustainable. Scotland going independent is possibly the worst thing they could do.
This Q&A covers alot of points about the 2014 question but the key thing is even if their is a yes vote, it will still take years before the split- estimate of 2016. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13326310 However before that their is alot of issues still to be sorted out, particuarly about who gets to vote and for both sides to campaign their views so people can make a informed decsion. If the SNP was offered 'devo max' tomorrow its likely they would take it instead of the question for independence as it could break the party if its a NO vote. Will be interesting to see how it develops over the next few years, as i have family from Scotland.
The people that live in any country should be able to decide their destiny. I'm absolutely not in favour of any half-way measure either way though. It either is or it isn't.
I'm actually half Scots (we're currently tracing geneaologies, hunting down where the genetic problems we have come from. Turns out I'm not a mutt, I'm a proper halfbreed-I can trace both lines unbroken back to Scotland and to the Everglades. Oddest thing to come across, but it explains why I have black hair and a red beard.) and while I hold absolutely no pretensions of having a dog in this fight, I personally would like to see them independent. My opinion has nothing to do with any logic, I simply think they have a distinctly separate national identity, and would like to see them sort things for themselves. In most all things I identify as Native American, and I'm much more vocal for them and active in working with advocacy groups and historical societies to preserve what is left, but I keep a small soft spot for the other half of my lineage. But like I said, never lived there, worked there, been able to visit, nada. My opinion is just that-an opinion, and is mostly based on my hatred of British imperialism (because seriously, what would you think if you were to return to your home country to find only 1% of the population was left, and they had almost forgotten the national pride and even the national history that made them unique? It happened to my people, and after living on reservation for just a few months I will never be the same. I tend to stick up for underdog countries as a matter of course now.)
I'm voting for Scottish independence because I've become extremely disillusioned with the stagnant Westminster system, particularly their recalcitrance to envision any real change in the current voting method. After the AV vote got shot down in flames I realised that most of them are just content to live in a rat's nest. I also have nothing but contempt for the farcical and embarrassing House of Commons "debates", the fact that this country is still ruled by a Queen (I don't care how irrelevant she actually is, she's still there) and also the arrogance of a country in massive debt telling us we will have money problems if we leave. A freshly independent Scottish parliament will have the capacity, but more importantly the desire to change their own system in ways that we will simply never see in Westminster. I think it's worth trying to create a better political process than we have right now. The Scottish Parliament is certainly young, but when compared to Westminster it could never be described as immature in that regard.
As already mentioned above Salmond is a bit of an ego maniac - a showbiz politician. If it were anyone else in charge I might be more inclined to towards independance. However I fail to see how different it will be if we were to vote for it. There are a lot of details still to come out and that's because the politicians don't really know the details yet, so the plan is not there. Salmonds previous avenue was to go Euro, but that has pretty much been thrown out the window since the Eurozone problems. We would have to apply for membership anyway and any new countries wanting in the Euro now would have to guarantee they would strictly adhere to Euro policies and governance. The present stance seems to be to keep the Scottish Pound - which will be exactly the same as the English Pound - which is what we have already. That ties us into limited powers and more or less following what Westminster and the Bank of England decides (again what we have already). We already have a 'Government' and differing laws from the rest of the UK. We are a proud and independant people already without full independance. What will change other that the SSS (Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney) team getting their egos massaged. If we did vote for it I can see Salmond doing a 'Blair' and getting out before anything starts to hit the fan.
Always quite amuses me the view that its Westminster fault and they’re all Londoners and hate the Scots, the last two PMs were both Scottish. In an independent Scotland were going to have the Scottish MPs going against the Westminster MPS based in Scotland, and I'd say its a 50/50 chance as to which will stay in power, we'll end up with a lot of the people causing the problems we say we want to avoid. Oh and currently pro independents want to keep the queen as head of state. I'm off the opinion that the people living in the country get to decide what happens no matter their country of birth. I don't want sodding Sean "hmm the Bahamas are a nice tax exile location but here’s what the Scotland should do" Connery having any say in what happens here unless they're paying their income tax here. they moved away for better climes, jobs or family that’s what you live with. it’s the people living here that will be affected, so its the people being affected that choose. I'm currently for staying with the status Quo unless the pro independence party can actually show that their dreams and wishes of status of the EU, fiscal independence, no debt, and all assets will be realised. As currently I don't see it happening. I don't see the EU letting us stay in with the same benefits the uk has, I see us having to re-negotiate all trade agreements, fishing agreements, farm subsidies and most importantly fiscal control. The last thing I want is to complain about how England controls our finances to then throw it to a federal Europe.
I don't care if they hate the Scots or not, all I know is that they sure hate PR, or any other sort of political progression.
