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How to start folding

Discussion in 'bit-tech Folding Team' started by zukomonitor, 23 Jan 2011.

  1. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    Ok so this is what happened after talking to Cave diver and Christopher in this thread, looking at Stanfords fah site, fahwiki and the links posted

    Download the client/s High performance SMP

    Download HFM.net monitor application look for the latest version

    1. see if my username was taken - username search
    2. find the Passkey request at fah site Passkey request
    3. at passkey request - enter your desired username and email - instant passkey sent to email
    4. read install instructions/guide's 3 times and keep browser open (lol)
    5. find out what the -flags mean and if you need them
    6. Write down the necessary flags - in my case * -smp & -verbosity 9*

    note - easiest way to insert the flags is at the config screen

    7. create a folder for you F@H apllication - refer to instructions on the fah site SMP guide
    E.G C:\users\*your windows user account name*\FAH
    8. extract the F@H .zip file to C:\users\*your windows user account name*\FAH
    9. rename the extracted folder to something easily remembered. in my case - as per Fah site instructions: fah6

    note - if you F@h application is displayed with '.exe' at the end you rename should also have .exe at the end, if not dont

    Note - filepath = C:\users\*your windows user account name*\FAH\fah6 (or fah6.exe)

    10. create a shortcut and pin to start menu - you can do this now or later
    11. type CMD in the start menu search box - when the see the CMD application above, right click and select 'run as administartor'
    12. In the CMD window you need to change the filepath so the PC knows where to look. so type the following:

    CD C:\users\*your windows user account name*\FAH\fah6 *Hit enter*


    13. type the following: -configonly -smp *Hit enter*

    note - the above are flags: -configonly opens the F@H apllication for you to setup without starting to 'fold'. -smp is because you want to use the client's high performance multicore capabilities if you dont then you will get the average single core cpu client performance.

    14. the configuration menu appears and this is what you see and enter

    Launch directory: C:\FAH
    Executable: fah6
    Arguments: -configonly -smp

    [16:25:22] Configuring Folding@Home...

    User Name [Anonymous]? your username
    Team Number [0]? 35947
    Passkey []? your passkey
    Ask before fetching/sending work (no/yes) [no]? press enter
    Use proxy (yes/no) [no]? press enter
    Acceptable size of work assignment and work result packets (bigger units
    may have large memory demands) -- 'small' is <5MB, 'normal' is <10MB, and
    'big' is >10MB (small/normal/big) [normal]? big
    Change advanced options (yes/no) [no]? yes
    Core Priority (idle/low) [idle]? press enter
    CPU usage requested (5-100) [100]? press enter
    Disable highly optimized assembly code (no/yes) [no]? press enter
    Pause if battery power is being used (useful for laptops) (no/yes) [no]?
    Interval, in minutes, between checkpoints (3-30) [15]? press enter
    Set -advmethods flag always, requesting new advanced
    scientific cores and/or work units if available (no/yes) [no]? yes
    Ignore any deadline information (mainly useful if
    system clock frequently has errors) (no/yes) [no]? press enter
    Machine ID (1-16) [1]? press enter
    Launch automatically, install as a service in this directory (yes/no) [no]? press enter
    The following options require you to restart the client before they take effect
    Disable CPU affinity lock (no/yes) [no]? press enter
    Additional client parameters []? -smp -verbosity9 *+ any flags you want with a space between*
    IP address to bind core to (for viewer) []? press enter

    note- thats it! all done

    15. close CMD window
    16. open F@H from your shortcut and it should start folding

    That was my experience of installing and setting up SMP2 windows client version 6.30

    17. Download and install HFM.net
    18. open HFM.net, at the top menu go to 'client' sub menu 'add client'
    19. name the configuration - mine is - i5 760 smp
    20. input your clock speed
    21. input the smp client file location: C:\users\*your windows user account name*\FAH
    22. press 'test connection' ... hit 'apply'
    23. go to 'file' and save configuration - put it wherever
    24. go to HFM.net top menu area: 'edit' \ preferences \ pop up window\ tab - startup and external\ check 'load configuration file on startup'

    Hit 'OK' and your done

    as said above, this was my experience and if ive done anything wrong please let me know so I can edit the above and sort my setup out

    cheers guys

    Original post - as you can see, I knew nothing! now have smp and gpu3 running with HFM.net approx 22k ppd

    I will edit the post to include the great links in this thread and also GPU3 setup

    cheers guys
     
    Last edited: 2 Feb 2011
  2. Christopher N. Lew

    Christopher N. Lew Folding in memory of my father

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    Welcome to the fold.

    There are downloads and instructions for all the clients on the Stanford site. Start on this page but don't download that client (unless you want an easy, low scoring client). With your hardware you should be able to run the SMP client and a GPU client. The downloads and instructions are from the 'High performance clients' page. Please read the whole page carefully. Download the instructions given, and follow them carefully (and check the Fahwiki).

    If you hit trouble just post here (or check out Stanford Folding Forum [worth doing even if you don't hit trouble ])
     
  3. cave_diver

    cave_diver Minimodder

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    +1 to Chris ...

    Get the "high performance clients" SMP & GPU2 (I think 2 or maybe 3 for that card).

    Start with the SMP Client and use the system tray version so you can get an understanding of what it's doing and are easily able to modify its settings. It comes with a nice installer so its problem free.

    With the gpu client, it only comes in console which is a DOS based interactive service but works in exactly the same way, just doesn't have the pretty GUI.

    Is there anything particular that you are stuck with?


    Regards,

    Chris
     
  4. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    Hi guy's

    Tbh its all just abit baffling!

    I forgot to mention that I was referering to Ph4zed's thread in the hardware section - Rallying call to Bit tech'ers.

    For me personally I would want the highestscoring, easiest to manage and above all - simple. I dont like VMware, whats high performance and whats not

    Like Chris said - I need to download this, that and whatnot but which 'this that and whatnot' lol

    I understand the SMP client is the modern one with multicore support (???) but is there different ones? and GPU clients

    and then theres the trackers, worklogs, work units etc etc.

    Maybe its a bit much but I'm after an all encompasing, step by step guide. I will research too and check out the links provided.

    Ive read the original article by Bit tech, but it seems outdated and not exactly detailed enough.

    cheers :thumb:
     
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  5. cave_diver

    cave_diver Minimodder

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    OK first a disclaimer, I won't pretend to be a pro-folder but I can help where I can and I'm sure others will step up and fill up any gaps.

    I must admit I get confused too, because there was a lot of talk about Deino and MPICH.

    OK first question is what kind of processor do you have? If it's core2duo or better (e.g i-series) then you need the SMP Client - this exploits multiple processors far more effectively than running multiple instances of the traditional client.

    Step zero - generate a user name - http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Download#ntoc2 - type in a user name you like and press search - hopefully it will be available.

    step zero(b) - generate a pass key - this is to make sure you get bonus points

    So step one - download SMP client - http://folding.stanford.edu/English/DownloadWinOther - scroll right to the bottom and you will see "Windows: V6 Beta SMP2/CPU clients" - download that.

    Step two - create a folder somewhere, like C:\Program Files\Folding\ and then copy in the file you just downloaded into this new directory.

    Step three - run that file

    You will get the old-school bios type window appear ... you will get a prompt for your username, type it in then press enter, you will get asked for team-id - type in 35947 press enter, you will get prompted for a passkey enter it (if you have it), keep pressing enter to skip through until you get asked for advanced options, type yes and then enter, again keep skipping through by pressing enter until you are asked for processor priority - type 100, then it will asked for extra options type -smp (including the -) followed by the number of processors. if it's core2duo it will be two, if its core2quad it will be 4 etc, so if you have a c2d you will need to type -smp 2.

    OK then by this point it should "run". It will need to download a bunch of files, one of which is the "core" this is what crunches the data as well as some work. This may take a few mins to achieve then it will start working.

    (Another disclaimer, i'm typing from memory at the moment)

    Yes you are right re:SMP - the GPU clients are seperate clients that can then work on the graphics card for extra work. GFX cards traditionally produce more points that the cpu so its worth installing.

    There is a subtle difference between GPU2 and GPU3 clients. GPU3 is for the newest generation of nvidia cards that supports fermi. GPU2 is for the older generation ie 8, 9 and 200 series cards. GPU3 will work for the older generations but it isn't as effecient. If you don't know which to dl then just dl GPU3 for now.

    It comes with a nice installer to make it easier on you. To configure the options for the GPU, you need to right-click the icon near your system time, and click configure. It requires all the same info as the SMP console client, but has a nice easy GUI. Go through all the tabs entering the appropriate info, under the advanced tab, make sure you crank up the priority all the way to the max (right)
    OK all a tracker is is a bit of software to monitor progress - I strongly recommend HFM.net - its fairly simple to use, others use FAHmon but I find it doesn't calculate ETA and PPD hence the switch over.

    search through the sticky about HFM.net and there is a comprehensive how to guide.

    no problem we are here to help

    yes it is!!

    OK does that make sense? If you need any more help feel free to ping back.

    THe funny thing was is that for the last few days I was wondering about the usefulness of "The Ultimate How-To Folders Guide From Beginner to Pro" and it goes from everything about how to install and configure for begineers all the way to advanced settings and flags etc etc - given that you are in the same situation as I was/am I think I will make it. Possibly even get an article in Custom PC mag if I can too.

    Anyways long post!!

    Message me back if you need more help
     
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  6. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    excellent :thumb:

    There should be a sticky in here and CPC should definitely do an article.

    ive just been watching topgear so only briefly looked at F@H site, but with what you've said and from the site I think I will be able to get up and running with smp and Gpu3 clients

    It may just be me but......

    Ive been interested in folding since I picked up CPC a year ago, but it seemed abit 'elitist' (like linux does to me) so I never really looked into it......
    Ive popped in this sub-forum a few times and had a nosey around, but if there was a sticky on 'how to fold' then I probably would have started when I joined Bit Tech a few months back.

    I bought the rig in my sig with the idea it was the best of midrange (budget limited). I probably would have been more than happy with a dual core AMD and lower ATI 5*** series card

    so I might aswell put it to good use + if you tell me I could do those BIGadv (is that right?) on an i7 860 then Id start saving now! lol
     
  7. cave_diver

    cave_diver Minimodder

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    In its olden forms setting up folding was a bit of a black art, but its come along a lot now and is far more accessible. (It can be made complicated but at least its simple to get into now)

    Well that rig isn't anything to be ashamed of and with that GFX card you should be spitting out about 15K points per day!

    bigadv are massive workunits that are very difficult and require high end machines. I think i5's have 8 threads on them (I know i7 does) and I know bigadv requires 8 threads. You need to download a program called CPU ID - in the bottom right corner you will see two boxes called "cores" and "threads" - as long as threads is greater or equal to 7 then bigadv work units can be run on your machine.

    Good news with your machine is that with the nvidia card is ideal for folding. Whereas your "would have done" machine would produce quite a few ppd less as ATI gfx cards are not optimised for folding. Upgrading to an i7 would certainly increase your PPD.

    OK Guide time

    Once you have got the SMP and GPU client installed you need to add a few "flags".

    Go to the directory where you installed the SMP client, create a shortcut to the client. Right click and then go to properties, where you see "target" - on the end of that you need to add "-smp x". Where x is the number of threads that CPU-ID stated. (Don't include the "), other flags that need to be added are "-local", "-forceasm" and "-advmethods". I would also include "-verbosity 9".

    The first flag makes the client store all the data in its local directory (always a good thing). I can't remember what -forceasm does but you do need it, advmethods allows access to bigger WU's the final flag, provides a more detailed output in the log file - useful if you start having problems of any kind.

    The i-series processors have hyperthreading on them, so I think there is a HT flag but I'm not sure.

    I'm not sure about the bigWU's 'coz I know my machines can't do them, so I've not looked into them, so I need someone else to help out with that. But for now you can start racking up some good points using -advmethods.

    Glad I'm being helpful, I've started writing my Ultimate Folders Guide so hopefully I can it written and uploaded to the forum (and hopefully the mag!) and it will help out upcoming folders like us!
     
  8. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    Really helpful, thanks for taking the time :thumb:

    i5 760 4c4t, so no Bigadv for me:sigh: lol might have to look for i7 860 :D

    the flags were confusing!!! just been reading fahwiki and F@H.

    Q - to setup/install do I need to use the "configonly" flag for the shortcut?

    sod it, Im gonna take the plunge now. How long do passkey's normally take to come through?

    Ill be watching the elecy bill but Ive also got a laptop and 3x PS3's that dont do much

    folding here I come!!!! lol

    EDIT: forgot to ask - 64bit smp client ???
     
  9. Christopher N. Lew

    Christopher N. Lew Folding in memory of my father

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    The trouble is that any guide goes out-of-date very quickly. The hardware guides don't have enough about Core i7 processors, and nothing about Sandy Bridge, nor do they mention Fermi cards and the difference between GPU2 and GPU3; the old SMP guides with talk about MPICH and Deino are now superceeded by the SMP 6.3 client, which is very much easier. And then there is the expected-any-time release of v7 clients, which are designed to be easier to set up.

    So either one person has to keep up-to-date, or we have a wiki. And isn't that just duplicating what can be found on the Stanford site?
     
  10. cave_diver

    cave_diver Minimodder

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    Yes that it a very valid point

    True ... but, I don't think the F@H stanford wiki is very god, for example the explanation on flaGS I found was rubbish and my fundamental question was "how doe this flag apply to me???" so I want a comprehensive guide.

    I would certainly like to try and take on the role however a consortium between the "pros" would be required so that the guide could be consistenly updated. I think this would be useful because I've found no one good guide for how to do this, but picked up bits and pieces all over the place. I think it could help the CPC folding team as well if we could get it published in the mag too. Maybe split in three sections (beginners - get going, intermediate - using console, advanced - using flags)
     
  11. StreetSam

    StreetSam Minimodder

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    Sorry not true, you need a CPU that has 8 threads (at least) and is fast enough to finish the WU in time. A 760 will do it but it needs to be overclocked and run 24/7

    -local hasn't been required for quite some time, -advmethods is one of the questions in the original setup so is no longer required as a flag, as is -forceasm. Also I would add the -smp flag in the "Additional parameters" question. Just go to http://folding.stanford.edu/English/WinSMPGuide and read that.
     
  12. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    I see what you mean about going out of date.. but a sticky could be maintained quite easy by a guru 'folder' couldnt it ?

    The stanford site seems abit confusing in itself, even the username check took me a sec to realise that my name wasnt being used lol and going from page to page and back to read the relevant bits of info and then trying to find something on 'passkey' I had to come back to your link to get to it :duh:

    but duplication of the info but put into steps and DL links would be great (I think)

    Q - is this the SMP client I need: Windows: V6 Beta SMP2/CPU clients 6.30 and:
    GPU3 V 6.32

    Monitoring clients - where do they fit in? -

    Fahmon and HFM - are these just seperate app's that let you view whats happening with your work units ? and why are they needed/better than the systray view (or does that not tell you much or something ???)
     
  13. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    Fahwiki states that you have to use "configonly" in the shortcut setup but stanfords site says to just open command prompt to enter config

    Stanford: Type this in the command prompt to begin

    fah6 -configonly -smp (where fah6=rename)

    Fahwiki: * Step 14 (right clicking shortcut)

    The properties window will appear. Add these flags -smp -configonly (red rectangle) at the end of the Target line.

    EDIT: run as a service - should I think about this later
     
  14. MrGumby

    MrGumby CPC 464 User

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  15. Christopher N. Lew

    Christopher N. Lew Folding in memory of my father

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    For SMP 6.30 (the best one to choose) you do not need -local and -forceasm. My shortcuts have (Windows 7 following the file naming system that is described in the Stanford instructions)
    Target C:\Users\Christopher\FAH\SMP_630.exe -smp -advmethods
    Start in C:\Users\Christopher\FAH

    If you use -smp (no number) like I do above, the client will use all the cores available to it, you only need to put a number if you are customising the set-up, usually to reserve one core for doing other tasks.

    The -advmethods flag allows your machine to get Work Units that aren't yet available to other machines, think of them as "Advanced Beta" projects. Although they should be stable, there is a slightly increased chance that your machine will not be able to run them, or it may crash, or other unwanted outcomes. The points awarded will be slightly higher to compensate.
    -advmethods Work Units may not be available, or only available for a short time. It is your choice if you are prepared to risk an undesirable outcome or not, if you want plain-sailing then don't use the flag.

    To run -bigadv projects you need high-end hardware. You will need eight cores, so an Intel processor with 4 cores and Hyperthreading is the cheapest way to start. 4Gb of memory is enough. (Again, in the old days it was much more difficult because the client would only run under Linux, hence talk of VM and the rest, and 6Gb memory were required - now it runs under Windows with less memory)

    Then your processor must be running fast enough to complete the units before the deadline, numbers for Sandy Bridge are just coming in. If you want to check your own hardware use the shortcut
    Target C:\Users\Christopher\FAH\SMP_630.exe -smp -bigadv and check the TPF (time per frame, eg 1% of the work unit). The cut-off used to be about 42 minutes, over that and your machine was too slow, again this number has changed recently. Go ahead and try it.

    If your hardware is fast enough, then you will need and ID, and complete 10 units and so forth. But you don't really need them if you are running normal units.

    Don't try setting up SMP and GPU3 at the same time - you will probably get confused, and that makes it difficult for us to help. Set up one or the other, deal with any issues, then move on to the other one. And make sure your machine is stable, folding will stress it more than almost anything else, and if there is a weak point, it'll cause problems.

    Don't loose heart at the beginning, if it all seems very daunting. Usually the defaults values and flags are fine, and everything else is just options. Set up a client, get used to the whole folding ecosystem, and take it from there. If the high performance clients (SMP and GPU) are not your cup of tea, then just download the classic client, which runs quietly in the background, and slowly works away.

    Remember, this is supposed to be fun; you can always experiment with the settings when you feel you want to :D
     
    Last edited: 24 Jan 2011
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  16. Christopher N. Lew

    Christopher N. Lew Folding in memory of my father

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    Fahmon and HFM.NET are third party applications, that run on your machine, and monitor your clients. Choose whichever you like most. Do NOT try and use the viewer that is part of the Folding Client, it is broken, uses a huge part of your PCs resources, and doesn't tell you anything useful.
     
  17. Christopher N. Lew

    Christopher N. Lew Folding in memory of my father

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    Technically yes, but it is a time consuming task to keep on top of everything. You need a willing volunteer. :D
     
  18. cave_diver

    cave_diver Minimodder

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    my thoughts too!

    These are purely 3rd party app's that let you monitor the progress from one display rather than lots of flicking about. They also report status as well as the log file so you can track what the folding app is doing which can be quite useful for hunting bugs.

    Some of the pro's have arrived now so I will let them carry on - hope I was useful and not too confusing!! I'll hold my hands up and Chris N has spotted some mistakes! Cheers guys

    Let the Fold Be With you

    Chris
     
  19. cave_diver

    cave_diver Minimodder

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    I'll do it as long as I have support from guru's
     
  20. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    great info thanks :thumb: trying to setup smp now

    file names/paths are confusing me abit. doh!

    should I create shortcut first or after?
     

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