I dunno why I am putting this up here - mainly becuase its driving me absolutely mental and I think maybe I need some assurance that I am not being out of order. I live with my 2 best mates, in quite a modest 3 bedroom house (which is fitting, as there is 3 of us). In the middle of december, one of my friends got made redundant and also evicted from his house in the same week (slightly dodgy/fruadulent rental agreement he had anyway). So we let him come and stay with us and stay in our studio (bear in mind we have a studio instead of a living room - becuase we are all musicians, so this is our only communal space due to not having a dining room) because there is a futon in there and its quite big etc. Anyhow - december was a long time ago. and sure my friend has now got himself a job (though he did only start last week.). In the time he has stayed with us, he has not given us a penny. occasionally he has bought some bread and milk but thats about it. We don't live like a shared house in many respects, as we dont have our own cupboard etc, we pretty much live like a family, we shop together, we eat together whatever. But all the same, he hasnt contributed to any of that. He also hasnt contributed to any of the bills. So today, I emailed by two housemates, and told them that I wasnt too happy with our current way of life, and that I think 4 months is about long enough. And I just got basically a barrage back basically saying I am a bad friend blah blah blah. 4 months? I do not think I would ever burdon anyone for 4 months without contributing at all. Its just causing me a lot of stress at the moment, I have alot on with work, I don't need to feel claustrophic at home and I don't need to feel like this. Its seriously putting me out of pocket becuase he never turns anything off and our bills have skyrocketed. and we are feeding another mouth all the time. I honestly didnt expect my friends to react like that, and I definitely didnt expect to feel like I want to move out off the back of it. im sorry, im just ranting for the sake of ranting, but im ****ed off. Im ****ed off that I have no money to my name becuase I have just had to fork out for a massive bill, and no one else has coughed up for yet. I think i need to get a new place, or I will burst. /rant.
Fear not! You are absolutely 100% in the right. You've essentially done this guy a good turn, as friends should, but the phrase 'outstaying your welcome' comes to mind here and he is basically taking you for a ride. Its bad enough when you have a housemate who actually pays to live somewhere who doesn't turn off the lights etc, because obviously its costing everyone money, but to have someone who isn't even contributing doing it is even worse. You are in a difficult situation, because you don't want to be the bad guy (you are not by the way, he is, for putting you in a situation where you feel like this), but also, you don't want to be taken for a ride. Its a shame your other two housemates don't see it the same way, if you lived with me we'd definitely be in full agreement about the situation. Ultimately its time for the guy to move out. He should have figured it out already but he hasn't. You could try using humour, dropping hints to him etc, but of course all of this is very difficult when the other two guys aren't supporting you. I think before you can do anything about him, you need to try and get the other two guys onside. My advice is to sit them down when he's not around, and tell them, honestly how you feel. Email conversations about such matters are the easy way out, as you don't have to deal with the consequences of your words head on, but they also often inflame matters further, as people read into what you write and how you have written it etc. If you do go down this route, say how you think its important that you have this shared space etc as it was meant to be. Money is a difficult one as while you can probably afford to support this extra guy, you certainly shouldn't have to, and you don't want to come off as tight (you aren't!). Maybe say that if this guy is going to be living here another month, you would like it if he contributed 25% of the rent, 25% of the bills and 25% of any other costs. That is, without a doubt fair, and fair is very hard to argue with.
The problem is, the main problem anyway, and this is entirely my fault, but i earn more than my housemates, maybe even considerably more than one of them, so, I kind of take care of everything and just tell people how much they owe me for bills etc. which is never normally equal, as the two guys i live with, have been my mates for 20 years, I feel horrible chasing people for money. So maybe, they don't actually realise the ramifications of having someone stay with us for that amount of time. We kind of agreed that we woudnt take any money off him because we would prefer for him to get back on his own two feet. And to be honest, I still kind of feel like that, but Im also realistic. He has only just started working, and he only works 16 hours a week.... I have moved house to know, that you need at least £1,000 down here to consider moving into a new place, you know to pay for your deposit, rent, fees etc. So I dont think he is even going to clear that in his first months pay, because 16 hours in retail just doesnt earn you that much money. And he also doesnt have anywhere else to go really (wtf are all my friends losers). So really - We take money off him for bills etc, then its going to be MONTHS until he moves out, we don't, and I will continue to get annoyed. He has just a few personality flaws, that, in any normal housing situation I would get over and just accept, but everything annoying about him is really really grinding on me at the moment. And - there has been a few occasions where he has had a bit of money, like a gyro clearing or whatever, and he has immediately been up the pub on a bender... This is what i mean, I would never say to anyone, here, i think you should have bought me some food this evening, or why dont you go and buy us some stuff, but at the same time, if i was in his position and I had some money, i would at least get people a take out, or some shopping or whatever. **** I sound so petty writing this stuff out. I dont really know where I can go from here, his family aren't from around here, and like I said, all my other friends are losers, so its basically us or no one or he moves back to wherever his family are. Which I dont think I want. but i also dont want to lose a friend, which nearly happened the other day. He went out with my housemate the other day (i have stopped going out with him, becasue its near as £4 a pint down here now anyway, and going out with him means buying 2 drinks every time you want one) and came home pissed up and came it to my room while I was trying to work on a server remotely, and just started acting like an idiot, and then wouldnt leave when I told him I was a bit too busy to be dealing with drunkards. He obviously thought it was hilarious, i wanted to rip his throat out. Honestly, what would be the easiest solution, is If i just go and get a flat, and he can take over my tenancy. Because I can afford to do that basically every month when I get paid, he cant - and won't be able to for months. This way he can just owe me, and I will be rid of this stress. But the flip side of the coin, is i thoroughly enjoy living with my 2 mates (i probably would enjoy living with the other guy under normal circumstances) and I only moved back to brighton 18months ago, and its the first time i have lived with them, and it is just perfect normally on account of how long we have been friends etc. Truely feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Email is not the way to go about; I would get him in a corner and look the man in the face. The sooner you thrash it out the better otherwise its going to get worse; I wouldn't draw any conclusions until then emails are not a great media the more these things swim round your head the uglier they seem.
Boundaries. This sounds like a classic case of business getting mixed up in friendships. The reason your mates reacted in such a strong negative way to your proposal is because mentally they align themselves with him rather than you. It sounds like your housemates and your itinerant house guest are kind of able to maintain their carefree lifestyle because you foot the bill. Well, that **** has got to stop right there. You are not a charitable organisation. You are a hard-working guy trying to make ends meet just like his fellow tenants. It is not your responsibility to look after them or your houseguest. sSo either he shapes up or ships out and if your housemates don't like it they can start taking responsibility for their share of the bills rather than relying on you as a float.
Kinda dealt with this before. Im also from brighton, and yes it costs a reasonable £700-800 a month to live down here minimum excluding nights out. So if he is spending 20 quid a week and going out once a week that leaves him with £100 to his name tops at the end of the month...Its tight. My way of dealing with this would be to talk to him straight. Also get your housemates on your side. Say something like this. "can we talk about what your plans are for the next few months? You've have stayed here since X date (4 months or so) and now you've got a job were looking for some sort of re-assurance from you about how your able to donate to rent, bills and house expenditure that we all currently pay on behalf of you. So whats your plans and what do you feel about paying your part/donating?" Leave the ball in his court. Don't ask him exact figures of what he can pay. Get him to verbally commit infront of everyone to say something like "i can pay X amount". Encourage him time to look at his finances "If you need to run up a budget then go for it". If he gets argumentative just say "there's no need to argue over this all i want to know was what your plans are and what your willing to donate" (put the ball back in his court). Ask how your housemates feel about the situation. Ask them what they expect him to donate or pay or if they expect anything at all. Keep us posted.
Living in a similar situation myself, living with four friends in a four bedroom house with a spare office converted to a fifth bedroom, also the most financially well off. In the past I've helped spot some bills as long as there was a set plan for paying me back. Obviously problems arise, people wanting to not pay things back and call it even mainly. I've found Nexxo's advice to be the best. What I did was make a list of all of the bills paid the month before along with the rent, then made a note of what I paid for each of them versus what they were divided evenly. Find the difference between the two and make it perfectly clear how much you're out of pocket. Then pose the simple question: what makes them think they're worth the extra expense? Or more specific to your case, how would the other two guests enjoy covering the cost of your guest if you stopped? It's easy to be hospitable when you aren't covering the costs.
+1 for aLtikal's approach: don't get invited into arguments; stay on topic. Only I would change the statement to: "I will contribute x ammount".
almost the same situation. My younger sister finished uni in August, and I put her up in the spare room of my house (also my office) until she was clear on what she wanted to do with her future, the plan was to save for a month or two and then move on. It's March, that's 7months missing my office, I've got client files n paperwork all over my house (I'm a bit of neat freak), and it's driving me nuts. She's my sister though, so it's a toughy!
I own a flat and rent 3 other rooms out in it to my mates. 4 friends living together. I do everything face to face. I tell them how much it costs to live in my flat, if they cant pay that then they leave. They respect me for that. Ive been living with the same mates for 6 years now. You may have been kind in the past, but you are not a charity. Lay down how you want things to work in the future and tell them why. If they dont like it, tell them to move out.
As others have said I'd sit all concerned down and have it out with them all. You don't have to be confrontational, just lay it all out there, explain all the costs and the fact that you want to help out but you don't want him or her to take the p**s. At the end of the day if he is a mate it could be that he doesn't realise and when you point it out to him this could change. Quite often people that are taking the **** do it because they do not realise. I've been on both sides of the conversation, when I was on the receiving end I didn't realise my actions were causing tension. Good luck.
it's kind of a hard lesson.. next time wait until he has a job.. then you can let him have the master bedroom if it makes you feel any better =]
If I'm understanding you correctly you pay the bills and then ask for a contribution from your 2 rent paying mates which is often at a lower proportion than possibly they might be accountable for because you earn more than them and they're your mates (in which case I applaud your generosity towards your friends). If that's correct the first thing I'd do in your situation is document all the bills and the amounts/proportions each of you pay, both before and after your additional friend's arrival. Then i'd sit down with the two of them and give them a copy each to show that you are subsidizing their living expenses. They may not be aware of the extent of your subsidy. Facts and figures presented to them should make your case demonstrably clearer, are harder to dispute and are less likely to lead to heated arguments or unwarranted accusations. If they're real mates they will see the extent of your predicament and either offer to contribute more, agree with you that your temporary guest has to contribute (or move out) or still not support your view. If the latter then they're not true friends with your interests in mind, in which case you can move on/out with a clear conscience. They will also be able to see for themselves whether they could even afford to subsidize the other mate if you leave. Sent from my Samsung hence the predictive text errors!
A good technique is to mention the cost per month impact its having on you, then say "you do realise that over a year that's going to cost me £xxx amount?"
Well I have gone away for the weekend - mothers day and that. thanks for all the words of advice - i will have to do something about it this week.
I had a long conversation with the guy who is still staying with us today. and I explained to him, its absolutely imperative that I can see at least some constructive effort and planning going into him moving out. I asked him what his plan was... He said his plan was to move out, he said he will get a months pay check from his retail job, a bit of money from the bar job (he picked that up today, 3 shifts a week) and a bit of dole money (i think thats what he meant, he said benefits). I told him that still sounds a bit like hearsay. I asked him where he was going to move to? And he said to a house share or bedsit or flat - I told him he should try and find a place, and some people to live with. I think he was under the impression it is all going to kind of fall into place. I told him I wasnt happy with that way of thinking, on the ground I have moved house about 7 times in the last 9 years, I know exactly how hard it is to find a place, find the money and find the people. so basically I told him his plan was **** and he didnt have enough money. Basically, what I have been trying to impress apon him, is he IS going to need to think of something else. And that while maybe thinking like that is enough to put his mind at rest about his housing situation, it doesnt mine. I have told him, in all seriousness that he needs to have a better plan. He need to actually find somewhere that he wants to move into in a few weeks or whatever, and that he needs to find out how much it is actually going to cost him, and make sure he has that money, and if he doesn't, make sure he has a back up plan for where the money is coming from (ie. beg borrow and steal from family). I told him, without those things being in place, its near on impossible that in 3 - 4 weeks he will be moving into a new place. He said well if that fails, then it will be next month with next months pay - I told him that wasnt really going to be an option unless its absolutely set in stone and he is only here that long as he is "waiting" to move into a place. I pointed out that if he stayed with us until his next pay cheque, ie, aprils, that it would have been 5.5 months that he has been staying with us without really contributing and without upholding the original conditions for him staying, ie. cleaning, making sure there is always bread and milk, reletively easy stuff for free board and bedding. I have spoken to my housemates regarding bills etc. I have told them, that I will take care of our council tax and everything else we will need to split 3 ways, I also have asked them to have responsibility over something each. I gave one housemate "virgin" I gave the other "water". Gas and electricity we get billed for quarterly so will start paying these with gyro's that way can gather cash off people before we pay the bill. Honestly, you would not believe these are all 26 year old men. In all seriousness and being realistic - I do still think he will be with us approaching the end of next month. But for this to happen he needs to start looking like he is getting his act into gear and sorting his **** out. Call me soft or a pushover or whatever but that's what friends are for I spose. All the same, I'm happy I have spoken to him and I have told him I am here to help etc. To be honest, If he actually asked me for the money I would probably give it him. Helps us both out really!
Soft pushover. OK, kidding, kidding! I think your mates have had too easy a ride. Because in the end you will pay up for whatever expenses are due, your housemates have never really had the experience of literally having no money left when they still have a week to go until next payday. They never had to think about incomings vs. outgoings and hence budgetting and making sure that the money stretches the month. I bet that they have no clue what the household's outgoings are: food expenses, utility bills etc. and what their monthly contributions are, and how the two match up. I think it's time to break out the Excel spreadsheet and show them the numbers. I think that you need to budget your own contribution too, and not go over it. If there is too much month left at the end of the food or utilities, then so be it --let them go hungry. It'll build character (or at least some sense of personal responsibility). As for your itinerant house guest: it's time to get him to contribute a monthly sum. This can be relative to his earings, but he needs to know that the freeloading times are over: that every month he is expected to contribute some concrete, set ammount to the household. They may argue that if you are a friend, you wouldn't be so calculating about money, but if they are your friends, they wouldn't force you in that position. The fact that you have to remind them of their honour shames them.
+1 I lived with my brother in his house for two years, and I paid him £200 rent per month, every month, from day one. My brother could easily pay his mortgage and all the bills, put several hundred in a savings account every month, but I was paying as a matter of principle. You're in a sticky situation where things have been the way they are for a little bit too long, so it might be that little bit more difficult to rectify. IMO you need to be tactful and assertive and say what's what, and that would be a good starting point.
