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Old 21st Apr 2017, 14:43   #6981
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Originally Posted by faugusztin View Post
Or on UK, because it is UK who is leaving ECJ jurisdiction. It can be spun in any way.
No, it doesn't. The offices can stay here all they want, they can operate here perfectly legally.
The EU just wouldn't let that happen in any shape or form. So ipso facto, they will move because the EU will be obliged to move them to save face.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 15:12   #6982
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No, they will move because EU agencies are based in EU nations. That's how it works; that's how it has always been. It is absurd for the UK to want to leave the EU bloc and EU regulation while still hosting its EU regulatory bodies, just like it would be absurd to remain in the Single Market while not being subject to the ECJ and the Four Freedoms. It is incompatible with its functional framework.

The UK can't have its cake and eat it. It still seems not to have grasped that.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 15:25   #6983
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
No, they will move because EU agencies are based in EU nations. That's how it works; that's how it has always been. It is absurd for the UK to want to leave the EU bloc and EU regulation while still hosting its EU regulatory bodies, just like it would be absurd to remain in the Single Market while not being subject to the ECJ and the Four Freedoms. It is incompatible with its functional framework.

The UK can't have its cake and eat it. It still seems not to have grasped that.
I'm not saying it won't move, I'm saying the doesn't have to pay for the relocation.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 15:47   #6984
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If the EU agencies want to leave , the UK won`t be paying for them to leave - divorce doesn't work like that.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:18   #6985
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Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
If the EU agencies want to leave , the UK won`t be paying for them to leave - divorce doesn't work like that.
It was the UK that left the EU. Therefore it is because of their action that the agencies have to leave. If the UK did not choose to leave the EU the cost of relocation would not be an issue.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:51   #6986
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But the agencies don't have to leave their current location. They can be located where they are and still do their work like they do now.

wanting to leave != having to leave

If I have a house with two appartments and divorce my wife, why should I pay for her moving, when she could just aswell stay in the appatment on the second floor?

Seriously, the politics are complicated, because people want it to be complicated. They don't need to be however.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:56   #6987
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Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
If the EU agencies want to leave , the UK won`t be paying for them to leave - divorce doesn't work like that.
The divorce analogy may be far more apt than we care to admit...
(UK) He pays for everything, (EU) She pays for nothing.

Not saying it is right, just saying it could end up that way.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:57   #6988
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Originally Posted by Mankz View Post
I'm not saying it won't move, I'm saying the doesn't have to pay for the relocation.
It kind of does, it was the UK who convinced their partner to have children and now the UK want's to leave the EU is asking the UK to pay the costs involved in relocating those children, obviously as has already been said if the UK want's to pay is something that will be discussed in the negotiations, lot's of things to hammer out in those 2 year negotiations.

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Originally Posted by jrs77 View Post
Seriously, the politics are complicated, because people want it to be complicated. They don't need to be however.
Very true however if you know of 2 people who agree on everything I'll show you two people who don't know each other like they thought they did.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:05   #6989
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But the agencies don't have to leave their current location. They can be located where they are and still do their work like they do now.

wanting to leave != having to leave
They quite plainly cannot. the EMA hosts EU staff and 39000 visitors a year from all over the world. The UK could block their visiting or impose visa restrictions. In fact the UK could just make it logistically very difficult for the EMA and EBA to function every time it has a conflict with the EU about something.

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If I have a house with two appartments and divorce my wife, why should I pay for her moving, when she could just aswell stay in the appatment on the second floor?
Because your divorcee might understandably not feel comfortable living in accommodation that you own, control and have access to. Conflict of interest, no?

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Seriously, the politics are complicated, because people want it to be complicated. They don't need to be however.
No, the politics are complicated because life is complicated. A politician who tells you that a political problem and its solution are simple is lying to you. I wish voters would start to understand that basic fact already.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:15   #6990
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No, the politics are complicated because life is complicated. A politician who tells you that a political problem and its solution are simple is lying to you. I wish voters would start to understand that basic fact already.
I'm starting to wonder if people find it difficult to understand because they're rarely faced with situations where they have to make compromises with other people to get what they want.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:31   #6991
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At the risk of buying into an oversimplification myself, I think it is because people are generally not that bright. We are primarily emotional animals with some reasoning ability based on heuristic shortcuts. And politics is nothing if not an emotional matter.

For most people Brexit was an emotional vote: it was based on a feeling. Their choice of politician is also based on how they feel about that person: Farage's ability to do an eloquent "common man" diatribe in the pub with beer in hand, Boris Johnson's endearing buffoonery, Theresa May's vicars-daughter/grammar school teacher's appearance of propriety and level-headedness. Politicians know that and spend great effort on projecting the "right" image.

We want the world to be simple because that is what our brain can understand and that is how it models our internal representation of the world. We are attracted to simple formulations and simple solutions. We don't want to hear that "it's complicated, really". So politicians paint the problems of society in simple terms and offer simple solutions. Criminals just need punishing. The unemployed just need to be forced into work. Immigrants just need to be kicked out. Borders just need to close. Head scarves just need to be banned. Leave simply means Leave. And if that doesn't work, it's because the previous government was simply too incompetent and namby-pamby about it, and we will do it harder.

Beware of any politician who says that it's simple. They're lying. Life is never simple.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:39   #6992
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Oversimplification my arse.

All i know is when my parents couldn't agree on something they argue like cats & dogs.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 19:26   #6993
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You mix up complex with complicated. They are not the same however.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 20:10   #6994
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If this thread is any indication I think so many nations trying to agree anything in under 2 years is very wishful thinking
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 20:37   #6995
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You mix up complex with complicated. They are not the same however.
What is the difference?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 20:46   #6996
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That is simple (sic) Complex is used to refer to the level of components in a system. If a problem is complex, it means that it has many components. Complexity does not evoke difficulty.
On the other hand, complicated refers to a high level of difficulty. If a problem is complicated, there might be or might not be many parts but it will certainly take a lot of hard work to solve.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 20:49   #6997
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Complex (adjective): not easy to analyse or understand; complicated or intricate.

Complex (noun): a group or system of different things that are linked in a close or complicated way

Language, eh? Complicated.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:19   #6998
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Language, eh? Complicated.
*complex
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:24   #6999
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If I have a house with two appartments and divorce my wife, why should I pay for her moving, when she could just aswell stay in the appatment on the second floor?
Brexit would be more like:

You (EU member countries) marry a woman(UK) and she starts to live in your house (EU), you both have a say on what to do, she demands that you change this and that and to invite this and that friend to your house and you oblige. All is well. She asks to get netflix, internet, phone number and some other services that both of you will use. She asks you to invest in her university fund, take a loan to buy a car and pay for some other stuff for her(beauty and health stuff, AKA roads and urban improvement).

Then one day her weird friends (that crazy UKIP person, the dumb looking blond one and a weird newspaper) stir up her emotions and she unilaterally dumps you. She did not ask you anything or how you felt about it, she did not evaluate the consequences of dumping you, she did not have a plan.

She wants to leave but she wants to keep with her your netflix account, the internet account, your phone number, those important services that are very important for you (she tells you that she will never prevent you from accessing them, cross her heart and hope to die). She wants you to continue paying for her university, car and the other stuff she made you buy. She wants continued access to your home, for free.

How would you react to this request?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:35   #7000
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*complex
No. As soon as a language enters a human mind, it's complicated. Take it from a clinical psychologist with a background in cross-cultural psychology, neuropsychology and Deaf mental health (doing therapy with sign language interpretation is fun!).

If life were like a Swiss watch, it would be complex (in your definition of the word). But life is not like a Swiss watch. Neither is politics.
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