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View Poll Results: What is your favourite Bit Tech Squadron name?
Bit Faction 3 12.00%
Bit Cartel 1 4.00%
Bit Sec 12 48.00%
Bit Butchers 0 0%
BIT 3 12.00%
Bit Syndicate 2 8.00%
Bit Technologies 4 16.00%
Bit Sovereignty 0 0%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 21st Apr 2017, 14:21   #7021
DeckerdBR
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Quote:
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This referral revamp competition is taking heat on reddit. Another shameless cashgrab that will only ever benefit the famous streamers and youtubers. Who on God's green earth is going to get 2000+ referrals apart from them?

I was expecting the rewards to be better, and cater for those that could conceivably get 3 or 4, 6 or 7. Nope, rewards for 75+ referrals added.

Baring in mind, these referrals are for a completely unfinished game that is basically a buggy tech demo with a couple of decent arcade sims. This referral competition belongs way in the future, if ever.

Poor.
What, you don't want a Hello Space Kitty shirt or Skin for your space motorbike?

Yeah that is pretty poo ha ha.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 14:24   #7022
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I wonder if anyone's quick enough to be wearing a Hello Space Kitty T-Shirt at tomorrow's Britizencon?

Also, how long until Sanrio Corp has a quiet word with CIG? And will CIG claim the "parody defence"?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 17:31   #7023
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Now, this is the sort of thing that you could get annoyed about: ship gets a price increase just before it goes on "limited" sale... one could call that rather cynical.
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The Merchantman was always going to get a bump in price wasn't it. Its also been on sale multiple times for what 2/3 years or so at that price? I suspect its the first, but not the last price bump, which should also bring it in line with similar ships of the size.
They've been saying the BMM would be going up, in fact they said before they did the Galactic Tour/Expo themed sale that the BMM would be going on sale again before it went up in price. I do think it'd feel better doing the increase straight after its removed from sale rather than the day before its being re-sold, but we cant deny they let us know it was coming and gave at least 1 opportunity to buy it. If they increase the price the day after, it doesnt change anything, but if they do it months later they've probably got something to show or say to help explain why, even if we knew the main reason anyway.

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I think overall, I would describe my position as Ďcautiously optimisticí. What Iíve played of 2.62 I like. I like the aesthetic and I appreciate the open development. Iím not hugely sold on people spending thousands on shiny ships, but that is their money and if I get a better game because of it, then so be it.
Its this, plus the fact that they're using this once in a lifetime opportunity in a responsible manner (IMO) to make a worthy game. They could have stuck to a timeline and barebones feature-list-ticking game and released it, then spent years modifying a live universe (as opposed to a alpha/beta one) bit by bit with new features, but instead they've done something amazing with the opportunity. It could all flop, but they've aimed for the stars, not the rooftop, and thats what i like about them. We have small indie studios taking risks but not having the budget for AAA greatness, and the huge studios are simply reiterating on a model based on what would sell the most copies, not what makes a better game, or what tech lets them do. They'd rather reskin and re-release, then spend the same amount on marketing as they do on development.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 20:48   #7024
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Yes, anyone who has high expectations of a $146m game and who disagrees with your viewpoint can be simply surmised as a 'fully fledged cult member'.
Go on the official forums and, for example, articulate why you think that Star Citizen is pay-to-win and you'll be inundated with spite and reasons why it's not...not original reasons of course, just arguments regurgitated from an interview that Chris Roberts, the architect of the business model, put forward in 2014. Unless you're 100% on board with "the vision" that place is absolutely toxic.

All I see is promises broken - release dates pushed back, exclusive one-off ship sales repeated, price hikes - All for an oft-broken demo and a youtube viral marketing channel that's separately funded. To put things in perspective, if it's ever released, Star Citizen is now the most expensive game ever developed (Marketing costs are funded by a separate revenue stream). The most expensive released game, Destiny, took 4 years to develop and the second, GTAV took just 3 years of full-time production. Of course, if you mention this on the official forums you'll be shot down and told Star Citizen is exceptional because it's doing something uniquely innovative...in reworking a decades-old genre...on a preexisting game engine.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:00   #7025
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Ignoring so much of that post already, GTA5 gets a pass on half of its development time because that apparently wasnt full-time, but CIG having only 6 people and $0 funds is when the clock starts for them?

oh, and please do tell how much SC has cost to make, never knew you had access to the books.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:05   #7026
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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mes_to_develop
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:17   #7027
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Splended, they've raised almost $147m. Forbes says GTA5 raised 2 billion in 2014.

So, how much has SC cost? You do know, right, cos you said its cost more than GTA5 minus its marketing budget and while allowing it 2yrs free development time. Like thats remotely close to a like-for-like comparison.

How you can insult others when you freely throw false information around as your argument, is beyond me. Are you so dim that you cant tell the difference, or do you simply not care as long as it suits the agenda?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:29   #7028
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Huh?

The amount of funding they've raised is right there in turquoise and navy. That's their development budget. If you're implying it costs less than that, then what are they doing with the excess cash? If you're implying it costs more than that then who, out of the goodness of their hearts, is supplying the extra funding? I really don't get your point.

As for GTAV, $2b is in post-release sales and micro-transactions, not development costs (the game came out in 2013)
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:38   #7029
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Im saying you dont know how much the game has cost, or is going to cost, and yet you're acting like you're being fair by comparing it against companies which have existed for 10+ years with all those years of lore and player response in which to build upon, and even making generous allowances for them, and then being strict with CIG and holding them up to a standard you're not even holding industry leading developers to.

Its hypocritical, and yet you're the one making brazen claims about the community and how they conduct themselves, while refusing to act fairly yourself, or even willing to consider the nuances of what you're comparing, you're just cherry picking stats and saying CIG hasnt met those standards, in order to drive your agenda.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 21:50   #7030
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In other news, I requested to get the Wing Commander 2 anniversary livestream uploaded to YouTube. I missed it and was gutted, so kept pestering Ben Lesnick until he did it.

For hardcore geeks who like watching old games and hearing interesting facts

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Old 21st Apr 2017, 22:15   #7031
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It's absolutely fair. Christ Roberts is supposed to know what he's doing. It was part of his initial pitch - He's made space sim games before, he's run development studios before. He was once an industry-leading figurehead whose name still carried weight after a decade.

As a seasoned studio lead, he knew how much his game was going to cost and how long it was going to take to put a studio together and release the game; That's why he was able to set funding goals on kickstarter - which was half a million initially, with a maximum stretch goal of $6 million. Now he has a budget 2,500-30,000% greater than that ( depending on which goal you're taking in to consideration) and an extra 3 years of development time above his initial projection of 2 years. As yet, all we backers have is a demo.

Whether I compare him to all other game developers, or his own promises and projections, he's not doing a good job of delivering. Now tell me, what is my agenda exactly?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:27   #7032
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It's absolutely fair. Christ Roberts is supposed to know what he's doing. It was part of his initial pitch - He's made space sim games before, he's run development studios before. He was once an industry-leading figurehead whose name still carried weight after a decade.

As a seasoned studio lead, he knew how much his game was going to cost and how long it was going to take to put a studio together and release the game; That's why he was able to set funding goals on kickstarter - which was half a million initially, with a maximum stretch goal of $6 million. Now he has a budget 2,500-30,000% greater than that ( depending on which goal you're taking in to consideration) and an extra 3 years of development time above his initial projection of 2 years. As yet, all we backers have is a demo.

Whether I compare him to all other game developers, or his own promises and projections, he's not doing a good job of delivering. Now tell me, what is my agenda exactly?
Well, a few posts back you claimed you don't really care. Huge post after huge post shows that is not true. Indeed, 19 of your last 25 forum posts have been about Star Citizen. To me, you seem very angry about the whole project and your trying to tell people or convince others to feel the same.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:44   #7033
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I'm actually on meds that throw my sleeping pattern completely out of whack and ruin whatever plans I have for that day. I woke up at midnight yesterday, and around 8pm tonight. When I drop in here to talk about Star Citizen it's mainly because I'm looking for something to do.

What I didn't have the energy for the other day, and thus motivation to care (meds again), was to engage in that type of highly delimited quote-response-quote-response conversation (although I sometimes get drawn in to one when replying to multiple posts) that doesn't allow for free-flowing, joined-up points and arguments - That's why I've been avoiding the serious section lately too.

Thanks for the armchair psychoanalysis though
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:49   #7034
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If he'd stuck to the original target, it wouldnt be anything remotely like whats being built today. Thats the difference.

He's seen the opportunity, and decided that rather than simply pocket the profits and make a $6m title on par with Elite, Freelancer, or heaven forbid NMS (!!), he's making something special. Oddly enough, a vastly greater scope requires more work, more money, and comes with more complications.

Everyone is quick to complain about the implication of making a superior game, but conveniently want to forget how that game would look if you removed all the things they've shown us. The feature set would be smaller, and those initial features would be vastly inferior to what we've seen. But that doesnt seem to matter, because they want a $150m game in a $6m timeframe and cant see how thats not realistic.

Yeah, he's made some great games, and so he went into the project with knowledge from the 90s & 00s, but he didnt have a studio, didnt have a publisher bankrolling it, didnt have a balanced team thats worked together and gelled on past projects, didnt have money. He had history and a detailed vision, and apparently a ticking clock on day 1.
But Rockstar gets a free pass for the first 2 years of work on GTA5.

A dozen posts lays out your agenda pretty clearly. Nobody says you cant be critical, but when its unjust, and laid on thick, its unreasonable.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:03   #7035
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Jesus, I'm not laying it on thick. I'm putting my position forwards and backing it up with verifiable facts. Perhaps I've spent too much time in the "Serious" section of the forums, or perhaps it's on you and the truth hurts.

As for GTAV - Ok, lets give RSI an extra two years to account for pre-production and putting a team together - 3 years of full-time production later Rockstar released GTAV, but 3 years of full-time production in the RSI camp has only amounted to a demo.

No matter how you cut it Star Citizen is sailing precariously close to the seas of vapourware, all while pushing for a greater and greater budget. That concerns me, I fear that an ever-increasing budget is impacting their discipline to get it finished and released.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:04   #7036
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Regardless of meds, sleep pattern and what not, your posts are all concentrated here. So, what is your 'agenda'? (Not the word I'd use) To fire up a debate?

I hardly think it could be called vapourware, I've played over 150 hours!
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:07   #7037
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Jesus, I'm not laying it on thick.
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Star Citizen is sailing precariously close to the seas of vapourware.
No, you're right, your being completely fair and balanced
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:17   #7038
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Like I said, it's something to do...the alternative is talking about Brexit, which I'm frankly sick of. That's it.

As for the vapourware comment - Two missed release dates make it fair, especially when the best the fans hope for is a release date 5 years beyond the original one, for a total of seven years in development. In my opinion they need to stop the funding campaign and commit to producing a game on the extremely generous budget they have. Otherwise, the feature creep may be neverending.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:27   #7039
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Yes missed dates/deadlines is a fair point of critique, but that does not make it vapourware. There has been tangible playable progress over these years you keep mentioning. We are not talking Duke Nukem Forever, which is what vapourware would suggest. 3-5 years of literally nothing.

For what it's worth, I am balanced somewhere between VipersGratitude's total pessimism and, say, Ian's happy clapper 'can't say a bad word about it' status (no offence Ian!).
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:36   #7040
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To confirm, I didn't say it was vapourware, I said it was getting close to it. If, in another year, we're still in the same position I'll be ready to call it, as I'm afraid the extremely lucrative ongoing crowdfunding efforts may be the reason it's taking so long - It's easier to sell a dream than a reality.
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