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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 06:18   #6761
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Did you not get the memo... it's not burgundy... it's pink...
I'm starting to suspect there's not a single thing Tories and I see eye to eye on.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 08:08   #6762
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Did you not get the memo... it's not burgundy... it's pink...
After Brexit Red* (12), Brexit White* (58) and Brexit Blue* (37), the Department of Colour is releasing a new shade:





* Only available in gloss
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 13:08   #6763
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This tweet didn't age very well did it.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 13:33   #6764
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Well, the chief minister of Gibraltar just called Donald Tusk a cuck. I knew mixing politics and memes would lead to no good.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39475127
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 14:18   #6765
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1: Gibraltar needs easy access to Spain (page 1 of Geography for brexiteers)
2: If the UK leaves the club then the club will side with Spain rather than the UK (common sense)

How could there be anyone over the age of three who didn't see the problem coming from miles away?
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 14:25   #6766
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How could there be anyone over the age of three who didn't see the problem coming from miles away?
They did. They were labelled 'project fear'.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 20:40   #6767
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No one is going to war with Spain and Gibraltar is not going change hands.

It will just be used to undermine Britain's negotiation leverage a bit.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:00   #6768
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Apparently it's complicated, as they say.

Technically although part of the UK, Gibraltar essentially has self-determination. It could choose to stay in the EU (where it has an odd special status) if it wanted while also staying part of the UK. Spain certainly would like that, as it favours the softest Brexit possible.

So ironically, it may be Spain, not the UK that has Gibraltar's back here.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:11   #6769
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At the very least it would have to do a reapply since it is Britain...sort of.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:13   #6770
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That's the interesting thing: it doesn't have to reapply. It is a member in its own right.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:18   #6771
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Its in under the UK, not in its own right. UK out = Gibraltar out.

Of course if the Spanish took it over within the next two years, then it would be a member, but again not its own right.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:26   #6772
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Although Gibraltar is in the EU because it joined when Britain did, it is officially a Special Member State with a bespoke membership deal.

A 1962 act states that British law applies unless its overridden by its own laws. Although not independent from the UK, the Gibraltar Constitution 2006 also gives it self-determination. In fact it had to pass its own EU referendum bill in 2015 because the UK one did not automatically apply in Gibraltar. This means that --especially because it is an advisory referendum-- it can also determine its own response to the outcome, which is 95% Remain anyway.

Their first minister Fabian Picardo has said that Gibraltar will always be British, but also that it needs a second referendum on the final deal (and it can have one, irrespective of what the rest of the UK decides, because it can pass its own bill on that) and that he wants the Rock to be half-in, half-out of the EU as it always has been. He is quoted as saying: "We'll be looking for a relationship with the EU that may differ from the UK's, perhaps an associate-style status. There are models: Andorra, Greenland, Liechtenstein."
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:37   #6773
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Just because Gibraltar has been afforded a certain level of autonomy does not make it any less a part of the UK than Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland. After all that's why all of these British polticians are getting riled up isn't it? Gibraltar is British...for now at least

Anyway going by an uncited source from Wikipedia:
Quote:
As a separate jurisdiction to the UK, Gibraltar's government and parliament are responsible for the transposition of EU law into local law. In 2016 Gibraltar voted "remain" in the UK EU membership referendum; however Gibraltar's membership is not distinct from the UK's and Gibraltar is bound by the overall result of "leave".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...nion#Gibraltar
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 21:55   #6774
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There is no question as to whether it is British; the question is whether it can do its own thing. It certainly appears to have a lot more independent powers than N. Ireland, Scotland or Wales.

I suspect that Spain's veto power serves several functions:

1. To convey a clear message to the UK that the EU looks after its members, of which the UK will now not be one anymore;
2. To prevent the UK using Gibraltar as negotiating leverage with Spain (in an attempt to divide and lobby with individual EU members directly).
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 22:23   #6775
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No one is going to war with Spain and Gibraltar is not going change hands.
Of course no one will go to war over it, not even May would be that retarded.

The problem is that Gibraltar needs easy access to the EU (and Spain just happens to be closest), else they are screwed for everything from food to jobs, because with a tiny population of only around 32k doing business in Gibraltar would not be profitable enough if there is any more red tape to deal with than there already is.

But of course just like Ireland will have to put up a hard border against Northern Ireland Spain will have to put up a hard border against Gibraltar.

The only way around it is to have an agreement with the EU to keep the borders open, which kind of makes the whole brexit idea obsolete.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 22:33   #6776
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Another way around it is to put up a hard border and force Gibralter to travel and get supplies by air and sea, rather than land. Spain's not going to lose out on much by doing that is it?

Or maybe Spain won't do that if Gibralter raises its coporation tax....you get the idea.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 07:43   #6777
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
There is no question as to whether it is British; the question is whether it can do its own thing. It certainly appears to have a lot more independent powers than N. Ireland, Scotland or Wales.
Not when it comes to foreign affairs, like N. Ireland, Scotland or Wales Gibraltar has to do what it's told when it comes to those.

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EDIT: The Brexiteer approach to the facts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39417715
It seems we now know what was "too gloomy" causing some MP's to walk out in disgust, apparently the report asked what deal would be worse than no deal causing them to walk away from negotiations, what would the economic, legal and other implications be of walking away without a deal and what steps are being taken to mitigate the damaging effect of such an outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilary Benn
If the government is going to make this assertion that no deal would be better than a bad deal, I think everyone would expect the government to have done some assessment.

They should make an assessment. Because in the absence of the government explaining what mitigating measures it would take to deal with that outcome, to say that no deal is better than a bad deal is unsubstantiated
So there it is folks, pointing out that the government should quantify what a worse case scenario maybe is seen as being too gloomy.

Let's instead just hope for the best and not bother making any plans for the worse.

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Old 4th Apr 2017, 10:30   #6778
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Another way around it is to put up a hard border and force Gibralter to travel and get supplies by air and sea, rather than land.
Sure, 0.60 for some Tesco bread + 99.99 for delivery within one week

Hell, look at Northern Ireland, over 30 times more consumers than Gibraltar but plenty of products are simply not available due to the government in England allowing courier companies to exist who then make it a hassle for shops to ship to Northern Ireland, so the shops in England just give Northern Ireland the middle finger and lump them in with the tiny islands in Scotland that have a population of one broken down tractor and three dogs.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 14:38   #6779
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Given the noises being made about Gib - I wonder how Spain would react when Morocco ask for Ceuta back - again.
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Old 4th Apr 2017, 15:20   #6780
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They'd probably explain how it's not on the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories or that Ceuta has never been a part of Morocco, or that unlike Gibraltar it's never been considered a bounty of war.

Things like territorially disputes are very complicated as you can't compare one with another because of very different history and circumstance.
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