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Old 20th Apr 2017, 20:52   #6941
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Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
If they want to go down that route , then may could likely not even bother and walk away completely.
Then why hasn't she yet? Why bother with a GE?

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Originally Posted by jrs77 View Post
Here's what will happen...

The EU-politicians will act like little brats and no satisfactory deal will be had by either side, resulting in a standoff with no real outcome.

This will not be the fault of the UK and those who voted for a Brexit however, but it'll be the fault of the arrogant EU-politicians acting like they're superior.
Please. Nigel Farage set the tone on the 24th June 2016 with his histrionics; then the Tories continued the theme in their party conference in October ("bargaining cards" etc). Throughout it all has been the "this will break up the EU" and "have our cake and eat it" rhetoric --even now David Davies presumes to be able to hold the EMA and EBA hostage to negotiations.

It's time that the UK grows the **** up and approaches this in an adult manner.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:26   #6942
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Then why hasn't she yet? Why bother with a GE?.

That is simple - it is to consolidate her power with a large majority , this isn't about the EU or brexit , it is about her wanting to be Thatcher.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:44   #6943
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Indeed --it's about having total control. Including over Brexit, hence the timing.

If she wanted to walk away into the WTO, she'd have done it by now. But she is talking about a close and special relationship and ambitious trade deals. She is gearing up the UK contributions in security and military power as her main bargaining card. She is a control freak: she has already decided what Brexit is going to mean and what she is prepared to bargain and compromise for it.

She has no particular ideology on Brexit. She's a pragmatic. Brexit is just her Trojan horse to power. Once she has total control, she is going to reshape Britain in her Conservative Christian vision. And boy, are a lot of people going to be surprised.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:45   #6944
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I disagree - she wants control for the next 5 years and waited for the opportunity , Brexit is a convenient excuse. Remember she said no GE 3 weeks ago.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:53   #6945
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So what changed in those three weeks?
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 21:55   #6946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
So what changed in those three weeks?
Opportunity
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:00   #6947
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The Conservatives have been leading by 17-20 points since last October. What changed in the last three weeks?
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:20   #6948
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I agree the bill should be priced in but I'm not sure I agree with paying for the relocation of agencies. If we lobbied for those agencies, then I can kinda understand, but either way at most I think the cost should be split between all.
Every EU country, UK too, lobbied heavily for all agencies, not just those two.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:33   #6949
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What changed in the last three weeks?
Some are saying this.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:35   #6950
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Have one of these, my good sir.

And it combines with another reason...
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 23:49   #6951
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
Then why hasn't she yet? Why bother with a GE?



Please. Nigel Farage set the tone on the 24th June 2016 with his histrionics; then the Tories continued the theme in their party conference in October ("bargaining cards" etc). Throughout it all has been the "this will break up the EU" and "have our cake and eat it" rhetoric --even now David Davies presumes to be able to hold the EMA and EBA hostage to negotiations.

It's time that the UK grows the **** up and approaches this in an adult manner.
Listen to the voices coming from Brussels. They've allready started to act like little brats throwing tantrums, even before the negotiations have begun.

Why should the UK pay a single cent for leaving the EU in the first place? They don't want any services from the EU anymore that would require payment. The only thing the UK has to pay are the allready agreed upon things up until the date of the UK actually leaving.

The UK doesn't need to grow up at all here. They want out of the EU and that's it. Let the negotiations begin and get them done as swiftly as possible without anything set in stone like those demanded payments.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 00:06   #6952
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They are demanding payment, Cause if not they have to find the cash. Which could be complicated.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 07:22   #6953
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It's time that the UK grows the **** up and approaches this in an adult manner.
Because thats what the EU has been doing all this time, right?

Pot Kettle.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 07:45   #6954
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Listen to the voices coming from Brussels. They've allready started to act like little brats throwing tantrums, even before the negotiations have begun.
You mean like Farage did on 24th June? When it comes to the tone of these conversations, the UK set them.

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Why should the UK pay a single cent for leaving the EU in the first place? They don't want any services from the EU anymore that would require payment. The only thing the UK has to pay are the allready agreed upon things up until the date of the UK actually leaving.
The UK signed up to commitments lasting until 2020. Cameron arranged for deferred payment on many of those, so those debts have been stacking up. The UK may be leaving, but it still has those commitments to honour --as does the EU does theirs. The Falklands for instance will continue to receive EU funds (as a dependancy of the UK) until 2020 --a year after the UK left.

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The UK doesn't need to grow up at all here. They want out of the EU and that's it. Let the negotiations begin and get them done as swiftly as possible without anything set in stone like those demanded payments.
No, apparently the UK wants out of the EU, and keep all the perks of the single market and none of the obligations, and welch on outstanding debts while at the same time keep EU regulatory bodies based in the UK even though it doesn't want their regulations. Perhaps if it didn't keep making such crazy demands, the EU wouldn't feel the need to react against that by drawing an ever hardening line.

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Because thats what the EU has been doing all this time, right?

Pot Kettle.
So your moral high grond is: "But they're doing it too!"?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 07:58   #6955
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So your moral high grond is: "But they're doing it too!"?
No, but its fairly hard to hold a serious adult discussion when you're talking to a bunch of petulant children, isn't it?

I think the rhetoric from both sides has been pretty deplorable so far to be entirely honest.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 08:07   #6956
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I totally agree. Someone has to start by being the wiser person. Let's see who it is.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 08:18   #6957
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If they want to go down that route , then may could likely not even bother and walk away completely.
That's certainly an option but i would guess it's an option Mrs May wants to avoid like the plague, not only would it cause inflation to rocket because of the 5-30% tariffs slapped on most goods with it being plain that Mrs May was to blame for the public not being able feed themselves, but it would also tie the UK up in lengthy and expensive legal battles in, ironically, EU courts for possibly decades with no guarantee that they wouldn't have to pay-up anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77 View Post
Here's what will happen...

The EU-politicians will act like little brats and no satisfactory deal will be had by either side, resulting in a standoff with no real outcome.

This will not be the fault of the UK and those who voted for a Brexit however, but it'll be the fault of the arrogant EU-politicians acting like they're superior.
Here's what i think will happen...

The EU-politicians will act like people who only have 5-10% of their chips in the game and be fairly apathetic about the whole thing while Mrs May will attempt to frame any losses as the fault of the EU and any gains as the result of her amazeballs negotiating tactics.

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Why should the UK pay a single cent for leaving the EU in the first place? They don't want any services from the EU anymore that would require payment. The only thing the UK has to pay are the allready agreed upon things up until the date of the UK actually leaving.
Oh you know, because of things like (PDF Source) legally binding budget commitments that will be paid after Britain leaves; pension promises to EU officials; and contingent liabilities -such as bailout loans to Ireland, EU investment projects, and project commitments.

Just like during a real divorce agreements have to be reached on whose going to pay for the children's schooling, the car, that 10k joint loan, the house, and all those things you committed to when you were a couple.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 08:43   #6958
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Just like during a real divorce agreements have to be reached on whose going to pay for the children's schooling, the car, that 10k joint loan, the house, and all those things you committed to when you were a couple.
So does that mean we get our share of Long-Term fixed assets we've paid for back at market value as well, or are we just on the hook for liabilities?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 08:54   #6959
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That's something that will have to be negotiated i dare say, even if we were successful in claiming 1/28th of the EU's fixed assets it would, based on my rough estimate, only be around 4 billion.

It seems the EU's plan is mainly about liabilities.

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Old 21st Apr 2017, 09:00   #6960
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Are there any long-term fixed assets?
Lets think on that, technically we own a share of anything the EU owns...

Property
Land
Equipment
Infrastructure

And then taken from the CFI, CFO and CFF:

Financial Assets
Pre-Financing arrangements
Cash / Derivatives
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