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Old 27th Sep 2016, 19:32   #21
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
The upside of a Trump election win would be that the British won't look like the stupidest people in the world anymore for voting Brexit.
Not really the same thing:

Brexit = One of the wealthiest nations throwing the status quo under the bus in favour of decades of uncertainty.
Voting Trump = Rejecting Hillary and making Trump find out the hard way just how little power the American President actually has (remember, there will still be the rest of the government to keep him in check).
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 23:48   #22
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Not really the same thing:

Brexit = One of the wealthiest nations throwing the status quo under the bus in favour of decades of uncertainty.
Voting Trump = Rejecting Hillary and making Trump find out the hard way just how little power the American President actually has (remember, there will still be the rest of the government to keep him in check).
That's exactly the thing. Trump as a president might actually be better than Hillary and the senate and the congress are still there to keep Trump in checks. Hillary otoh would make deals with everyone, especially the reps to please the financiers of her campaign continuing all the bad economic politics that have hurt the US in the last 30 years.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:03   #23
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Yeah, whereas the senate and congress would recognise Trump for the man-child he is and keep him in check while they get on with the business of serious and sensible government. I mean, it's not like Trump knows how to make deals; he totally is not known for making deals; he does not pride himself on deal making. He has no agenda here. He does not represent bad economic politics at all. He's just a humble patriot who wants to make America great again.

Seriously, if you think that Trump is going to be any less influential and damaging than Hilary Clinton, I've got some swamp land in Florida to sell you.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:16   #24
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Both as bad as each other, if anything I hope Trump wins and pushes up the value of the pound.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:27   #25
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Yeah, because a strong Pound is really going to help when the world burns.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:29   #26
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Isn't the president just the fall guy for the actual government? Nothing really gets passed without congress' say so. Apart from who to invade of course, the president gets to decide that one I believe.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:30   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
Yeah, whereas the senate and congress would recognise Trump for the man-child he is and keep him in check while they get on with the business of serious and sensible government. I mean, it's not like Trump knows how to make deals; he totally is not known for making deals; he does not pride himself on deal making. He has no agenda here. He does not represent bad economic politics at all. He's just a humble patriot who wants to make America great again.

Seriously, if you think that Trump is going to be any less influential and damaging than Hilary Clinton, I've got some swamp land in Florida to sell you.
I actually really think that Trump wouldn't be as influential and damaging as Hillary. He'll do alot of cringeworthy stuff and he'll embarass the USofA, but contrary to his own narative he's actually not that good in making deals.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:36   #28
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That is what makes him damaging. If he made good deals be wouldn't be a problem.

There is this strange narrative in politics at the moment that a populist uprising against a bad establishment must by definition be good. Not so.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:37   #29
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Yeah, because a strong Pound is really going to help when the world burns.
No but it will help my holiday spending after xmas
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:37   #30
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May be our last. The Jackpot is coming. Better spend that money on canned food.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 08:38   #31
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Don't be silly.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 09:24   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
Yeah, whereas the senate and congress would recognise Trump for the man-child he is and keep him in check while they get on with the business of serious and sensible government.
Ever since the second Bush era there has been a lot more media coverage in Europe about American politics (and since Obama took over it has increased even more), have you noticed how often Obama had stuff he had proposed stopped or extremely watered down by Congress / Senate / Supreme Court?

Not even to mention that the federal government has much less power internally than in other countries as a lot of laws are up to the individual states.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he would be good for America or the world, just saying he wouldn't do as much damage as some people fear.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 09:33   #33
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People make the mistake of thinking Hilary Clinton will be more damaging because she is a competent politician who knows how to play the system, whereas Trump appears a bit of a bumbling fool. Well, we have seen how that worked out with Boris Johnson over here, and the damage that he has caused.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:08   #34
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Isn't the president just the fall guy for the actual government? Nothing really gets passed without congress' say so. Apart from who to invade of course, the president gets to decide that one I believe.
Don't forget this one...

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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:11   #35
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Yup. The Donald would get access to the nuclear launch codes. And as one US general explained: The system is set up for a rapid response, not for careful consideration. There is no "Are you SURE you want to launch the nuclear missiles?" window.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:16   #36
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The US will have more to answer to than congress if they ever nuked another country. It wont happen.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:26   #37
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You say that but mistakes happen...
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in 1979, when the consoles at our early warning hub in Colorado lit up with indications of a large-scale Soviet missile attack. President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, received back-to-back calls in the middle of the night informing him of the imminent nuclear destruction of the United States. The second call reported an all-out attack. Brzezinski was seconds away from waking Carter to pass on the dreadful news and convince him of the need to order retaliation without delay (within a six-minute deadline). Brzezinski was sure the end was near.

Just before he picked up the phone to call Carter, Brzezinski received a third call, this time canceling the alarm. It was a mistake caused by human and technical error. A training tape simulating an all-out Soviet attack had inadvertently slipped into the actual real-time attack early warning network. The impending nuclear holocaust was a mirage that confused the duty crew.
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:27   #38
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Exactly. There have been a number of close calls like that, averted only because one person in the system thought: "Wait a second: these are big consequences at stake here, let's just double-check...".

But that is not how systems generally work: stupid things happen because people can only see their little part in the machine and follow orders, not because they have a sense of responsibility for and overview of the overall process and consequences. Now, does Trump strike you as a person who double-checks his calls? Do the people he surrounds himself with?
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:30   #39
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That's basically how every organisation works
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Old 28th Sep 2016, 10:42   #40
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Yes, which is why mistakes happen all the time. Most systems have safeguards for that, but I suspect that the president being an idiot, albeit an obvious risk, is not a risk compensated for.
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