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Scotland vote to break away from Uk rule.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by rainbowbridge, 21 Aug 2014.

  1. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    I like to watch parliament speaking and there is a TV channel for it which I try to watch a bit of at work with my laptop on catching up emails away from desk.

    At the moment there is a constant debate about Scotland and some vote pending next month and I am finding it really interesting to listen to a whole bunch of scots talking about some important self governing topics and just day to day business of Scotland.

    For the first time ever today, I saw the lady who is the head of scotch festivals, the guy who is head of airports, the leader of the conservative party and the leader of both the labour and liberal party's of Scotland.

    I think it was the leader of the scotch's conservative party (women), oh boy she is a beast, super aggressive a real power house of a women, maybe too much, a bit un-nerving.


    In theory there will be a lot of change for Scotland if they vote that they be self governed ,and it may impact England as well,

    All the scots are going to vote for freedom from Britain I think, the last vote that sealed this governorship in place was in the 17 hundred's or some thing.

    Scotland has just found a new HUGE oil reserve as well up in the north sea as well.


    Cant we allow Scotland to be self governing but we retain the OIL rights and relevant shipping and train access to our oil?

    :D

     
  2. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    I'm not sure that you can post a topic about Scottish independence in the "Serious" section and include a Braveheart video :D
     
  3. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    With Cameron and co promising to abolish human rights and the even worse lunacy of UKIP everyone in the UK should hope that Scotland becomes independent, then we can apply for asylum there and easily fit in unlike if we have to go somewhere further away.
     
    G0UDG likes this.
  4. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    However, as this is Serious, here are a couple of things:

    Please don't forget about the rest of the UK - it's England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, not just England and Scotland :)

    I'd be interested to see what you're basing that on, given that opinion polls pretty much universally disagree with your assessment.

    This is actually an option (albeit not one available in the referendum) - Scotland already has certain powers devolved from Westminster to Holyrood, and further devolution could occur (and is being mooted by the three main parties as a consequence of a No vote). Unfortunately, it's not been included as an option on the ballot paper.
     
  5. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    I think the scots can manage their own affairs much better from Holyrood or what ever than us having to be involved all the way down here, surely it makes sense they deal with there own stuff up there?

    I like it when scots get all national pride and start really speaking thick proper Scottish.
     
  6. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    Oil's all the Queen's anyway; licencing goes via the gov'ment. If we leave the Union, then all the old contracts still stand, we don't magically get all the Oil... put bluntly Talisman, BP and ConnocoPhillips can afford better lawyers than the Scottish Government, and so can Westminster.

    Frankly Alex Salmond is a bully and a paper tiger; in a recent debate against Alastair Darling he constantly refused to say what his "plan B" would be should the BoE etcetera uphold their denial of a currency union. He blindly and balnkly retorteded over and over, that the answer with plans B through E were on page 4 of their fiscal statement. The options aren't lettered, simple bullet points, four of them. On page 3. His behaviour, actions, and general lack of preparedness have completely switched my opinions on independence.
     
  7. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    @asura: While old contracts will be valid as they will be inherited by the new country, the taxes and fees will not go to UK, but to Scotland. (Talking from experience, we split with Czech Republic 2 decades ago)
     
  8. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    The most logical plan B for a currency would be to have a new currency, but tie its value to either pound, euro or us dollar, that way BoE gets its will and the scottish currency is protected from speculative ********.
     
  9. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but your separation from the then CzechoSlovakia (I was only ten-ish at the time) was an amicable top-down movement, whereas the possible coming independence would likely be much more of a "messy divorce" with Cameron (or whomever succeeds him) and Salmond (or whomever succeeds him) squabbling over everything from pounds to pensions (I couldn't think of anything beginning with Z to squabble over so settled for alliteration) and throwing toys out of their prams.

    And the four fiscal options considered were...


    • Sterling
    • The Euro
    • A Scottish currency pegged to Sterling; and
    • A flexible Scottish currency


    I guess the list was drawn up before the First Minister was forced to admit (after months of loudly crying the contrary) that he wasn't in possession of a document from some EU commission or other stating that a newly independent Scotland would automatically become an EU member state... maybe that's why he didn't want to admit that "plan B" was the Euro...
     
  10. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Unless UK keeps the specific parts of Scottish shoreline (which probably won't happen unless UK will go to war with Scotland), (most of) the oil reserves will belong to Scotland due how exclusive economic zones over the sea work based on country shoreline :
    [​IMG]

    And about "amicable top-down movement" - it was more like "Klaus and Meciar decided to split the country in two, and people had no choice, they had to accept it that the big leaders decided that way".

    The currency - i don't think Scotland can have any other option than Euro, even if they somehow manage to stay inside EU (which is not 100% either). UK has a special agreement which allows UK to use GBP; Scotland would not get such thing from EU (neither would it be inherited from UK).
     
    Last edited: 21 Aug 2014
  11. loftie

    loftie Multimodder

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    I personally don't want Scotland to leave the UK, I really don't think we'll be better separately than as a united whole.

    Is it just a case of hating Westminster that makes people want to leave? I mean, I'm sure we're all fed up of the Government in some way shape or form, but does this mean we all declare independence?
     
  12. ccxo

    ccxo On top of a hill

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  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    So many people have mentioned the oil but that seems a very short term view to me, what happens in 50-100 years when the oil is gone ? There will be no going back, it's a one way deal that will effect generations to come.
     
  14. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    The oil question is a red herring, take oil out of the equation and Scotland's wealth is comparative to the rest of the UK.
    Oil revenue in the short term would simply be a bonus.

    As for independence, I'm still waiting on both side providing some straight forward answers.
     
    Last edited: 22 Aug 2014
  15. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I don't think you will get any straight forward answers from either side, I'm not sure either side can say with any degree of certainty what will happen if Scotland chooses independence.

    It's a bit like wanting to know how things are going to turn out before a couple files for divorce, no one knows who will get the kids, dog, house, car, etc, etc. They probably hope their lives will be better after the divorce, but in the end it's a leap into the unknown.
     
  16. TheBlackSwordsMan

    TheBlackSwordsMan Over the Hills and Far Away

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    Whenever there is a referendum for independence, there is always folks to think that the 'World' will crumble(rolling eyes). Scotland's GDP for the year 2013 was about 245$ Billions, this number wont go down because of independence (hello), companies will keep their ties, businesses will keep doing business and scottish folks will keep having haggis for lunch.
     
  17. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    I think you'll find it's dinner, not lunch.
     
  18. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    Will they? Really?
    There's been a lot of chatter from some sectors about pulling out of Scotland if independence comes to pass. The most recent example is defence - an iScotland wants no part in the UK nuclear deterrent, so all the RN stuff round Rosyth will go back down South, followed by all the jobs that it creates in areas such as reactor maintenance. Plus, iScotland is going to have to massively cut their defence spending, meaning there's going to be no market for companies in Scotland to sell defence products to. Instead they'll up sticks to England/Wales.

    Finance is similar. Big financial companies don't like uncertainty and will simply relocate their business. This will get more noticeable as the years pass and policies in the two countries separate and become distinct.

    Simply put, I don't think "it'll carry on just like it has" is a well thought out argument. It's riddled with flaws and erroneous assumptions.
     
  19. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Of course, there's always the chance that companies might find that doing business in an independent Scotland is actually more attractive than at present... How likely that is depends on what happens in the event of a Yes vote, of course.

    Either way, business may dislike uncertainty, but they also dislike having to relocate their operations. There are a lot of businesses in Scotland that have highly skilled and specialist workforces, and whilst no-one is irreplaceable, it's an additional cost (and indeed uncertainty) that many businesses may be loath to incur unless it's absolutely necessary.

    Not saying that you're wrong in saying that some companies will relocate, but it's not all doom and gloom.
     
  20. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    I feel for the Scots, they've had nothing but drivel from both Caeser Salmond and the Doom Sayer for months now and very rarely is any useful information provided on which to make an informed choice.

    Hell, I'm down in England now and I've heard enough to hope for a 'yes' vote so I don't have to listen to any more guff.

    The biggest downside in a 'yes' vote for the Scots is that they can't then blame everything on the English :)

    I do wonder though how far it will go, I saw Islanders from the North on the news already saying they would want further independence away from Edinburgh...

    Edit: On a serious note, this is something I would want to be covered more to help my decision if I were still living in Edinburgh and voting:

    from bbc clicky
     
    Last edited: 4 Sep 2014

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