Hello First time here I think... I'm Muslim and British. Both of which I'm proud of. I also enjoy the news. However Recently more then usual the news and newspapers have been annoying. It the constant bashing of my religion. Its discomforting when murders are called 'Islamists' or a suspected terrorist is called a 'radical muslim cleric' - guess who ? Why do defamatory headlines about Muslims sell newspaper so well ? I'm proud of being British and think The laws of protecting sexuality and race are important to our country but will there ever be a law regarding inciting religious hatred ? What worries me the most is that all sorts of people read or watch news/newspapers. Is this leading to more ignorance ? Are more people hearing these stories and hating Muslims ? Are Muslims hearing these stories and feeling more isolated and more feeling hatred towards Britain ?
Are those very small minority of people 'Islamists' or 'radical muslim cleric's though? No less than reporting on the social minority of bankers, national front whites or real terrorists or other nutcases that make the front pages. There are still murders that happen by Muslims that are reported on as murders (there was one in Cardiff not far from where I lived), but what you're reading is cause and effect: it sells national newspapers to have sensationalist headlines about right-wing islamisic attitudes, because most people reading those newspapers are mid-to-right wing Brits. Add to the fact the level of interaction between Muslims and those outside of their communities is quite low and it continually breeds misunderstanding. That's not a muslim specific in anyway - Chinese, Jewish, Polish etc all suffer from it. But to me it's the lack of cross-cultural (not religious) agreement: women are openly treated as second class in the home, they can't easily divorce, arranged marriages, social standing within local communities and a trend that looks down on others that aren't 'muslim enough' or 'too Western' pushes right-wing attitudes: that causes most problems. I try to understand it and I never comment, but I can see how others get offended. At the same time people (like me) see right-wing Pakistan in a social melt down and of course they fear its effect on fracturing the neighbourhood and friends, if they are not in tune with those communities. Again that's not specific to Muslims, Jewish do the same. We here may know that 95% of British muslims are moderate and friendly, but it takes just a few bad apples to spoil it and the rest of the situation to push public opinion. (I have grown up next door to a Muslim community and neighbours - some of my best friends in school - but have sadly seen everything I've listed above first hand).
Interesting comment B. Why should Afew bad apples spoil in a religion spoil it for the rest ? In an ideal world there would be a running percentage of Muslim terrorists to other Muslims which is at 1.62bn. Then legally certain words could be used. Much like the way % of fat content decides if legally the product can be called spread or butter. On the other hand, one major barrier I have come across while trying to integrate is alcohol. I grew up in Cambridge and moved to Birmingham to go to uni. And when at school I had no choice I either had white friends or no friends but they were great and respected my beliefs but at uni the crowd was much more varied and I found myself with generally white people but always excusing myself as the group headed to a bar or house party. So after always feeling uncomfortable by the alcohol I spent less time with them and eventually found myself with religious only friends (be it Muslims, Hindus or Jews)
Also on culture We all know that treating women as 2nd class citizens is wrong. in Islamic opinion women have alot of respect. For example in marriage the women's money is her own and cannot be spent by the man. However the man must provide for her in everyway. Or the first, second and third most important person in your life is your mother and heaven at the foot of your mother. However culturally these things go out of the window, depending on culture - however this is in no way or shape anything to do with religion. I suppose it's just association. Also arranged marriages are just an introduction between two single and eligible people. Family's talk about education and income to insure a successful happy marriage and it does work. Islamic marriage is done before a certified imam from the mosque who speaks to women and man privately to ask if they are marrying freely. In no way are arranged marriages perfect you get people forced by culture into marriage. Also alot of cultures actually promise marriage at age 3-4 and marriage is conducted at age 15-16.
As a non-drinkers I completely sympathise with your integration barrier. It's the BS part of not just British culture, but everyone except Muslim. I faced the same in Manchester and at school. Even in East Asia I am expected to drink with the in-laws, and I outright refuse. They are nice enough but some don't understand. It's not just white. Unfortunately it's the bad things in the world that sell papers. Bad news sells news. Humans like to feel better by putting others different from themselves down. We're conditioned from a young age to do better than others in school. We're a sad race. I know it's 'hidden power' - about who rules the roost at home - but Islamic is not the same as cultural values about women that vary greatly.
Newspapers sell stories, its sad but teue Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio Z715e using Tapatalk
Why would you see that? People acting aggressively plays into it. They have to be open and upfront, to go that extra mile. MOST people reading it just assume because they don't know any better so you have to prove them wrong. Having said that, the only time I was racially abused was in Birmingham..
If I feel uncomfortable and sometime angry at the way the press report story's then there must be some out there who might and could take it to the next level. I was never really racially abused in Cambridge when it did happen it was rare. I came to the understanding that unintelligence = racism. In Birmingham Muslims are in race catergories and are more negative about groups then about anything else.
Hatred spread by the news? They're only reporting on what is happening and to be frank 9 times out of 10, if it's a bombing, or someone has being killed because someone burnt a book, or drew a picture, it's always the same group of people! I would like to see this same group of people condemning the acts of the 'few' instead we don't see any of this and only the violence & hatred! Go do you figures! Don't worry, it's in your 'nature' to get wound up, just like your group do over the most trivial of things!
Those newspapers are just playing to their audience. Just as some papers such as the Guardian and Independent would be more 'pro' Islam. Also it's not leading to more ignorance: http://cdn.yougov.com/today_uk_import/yg-archives-yougov-911tenyearson-090911.pdf 85% of Brits don't agree with the statement: "A large proportion of British Muslims feel no sense of loyalty to this country and are prepared to condone or even carry out acts of terrorism" Which is a slightly improvement on the 82% who don't agree with that statement 5 years ago. Attitudes to Islam, the 'war' on terror, terrorism (etc etc) is softening - not hardening. Granted not at a very fast rate. But considering the events of 9/11, attitudes will (rightly or wrongly) take a while to 'return' to 'normal'. Why? I'm solidly right wing economically/politically. But when I read left-wing economic/political pieces, I don't get angry. Nor could I imagine myself taking it "to the next level"? I know religion is a more emotive subject, but I still can't imagine why a press report - on any subject - would trigger violence/terrorism. Heck, there's plenty of anti-Christian sentiment and reporting around...
Sign of the times. In the 80's the bombings happened in Northern Ireland and Britain. It created a lot of distrust of anyone with an Irish accent. Perhaps the Northern Irish population should have condemned sectarian violence more strongly (again people getting wound up over a book), but then again they were just too busy trying to keep their heads down and not getting killed themselves. We don't see so many reports onwhat Allied soldiers get up to in Afghanistan (or perhaps you just don't). Kill teams, soldiers pissing on bodies. Or how about those Belgian UN forces getting it on in Somalia? Perhaps those Muslims who get wound up over US soldiers burning a few of their holy books see it in an entirely different context. Weren't you the one who got all worked up over burning a paper flower? But I wouldn't expect anything else from someone of your group.
The Poppy reflects real people's lives. The Koran is a fairytale! I rest my case... http://thereligionofpeace.com/
I knew that you were going to say that (you are so predictable!). The poppy is fairy tales. The Bible is fairy tales. A red paper flower means as much to me as the Koran does to you. Yet I'm able to understand that for a large number of people, both have a lot of personal, even spiritual meaning. Fairy tales, myths, legends, stories; they matter more deeply to the human condition than you will be ever able to grasp. Even though you are driven by nothing but. I rest my case... http://www.godhatesfags.com/ (your link is just an opinion piece. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth) http://richardjacksonterrorismblog....why-i-wear-the-white-poppy-not-the-red-poppy/
Donok, You need to understand something about the nature of people. Our brains are wired in a way that is both a blessing and a curse. When we find something that we don't understand or fear, we try to discover patterns to make sense of the information we are getting. Like mentioned in the thread, in the past it has been IRA members/Irish and today it is Islamic Terrorist. In the search for understanding, the brain works overtime to create a pattern, no matter how simple or whether it is based on a lot or very little information. When a series of events happen (terror bombings around the world) and people see a pattern (believers in Islam) they consider the pattern valid and true. This is a classic example of mistaking correlation with causation. The classic logical misstep example is "All elephants are gray, therefore all gray things must be elephants. i.e. All terrorists are Islamic therefore all believers of Islam are terrorist. This is obviously wrong. But to gather enough information to dispel this misstep, a LOT of information must be gathered, much more than people are willing, and in some cases, able to do. For the most part, this method of reason works very well, in others it goes horribly wrong. Like it or not, the key to changing the conclusions of massive amounts of people is to break the pattern - if Islamics stopped killing innocent people using terroristic methods, it would dissipate fairly quickly and people would move on to creating patterns about other things they are concerned about. I am an American Christian Conservative from the South, therefore I am: fat, stupid, racist, intolerant and love, love, love Kim Kardashian
Why is one simply non-muslim or muslim? Religion is a complicated thing with huge variances even within individual branches. And then there's the culture aspect: I'm atheistic; I don't believe in God nor Jesus nor do I pay the bible any particular attention yet I have many Christian morals and celebrate many "Christian" festivals (one shoudl not that many of these aren't Christian in origin). Religion isn't just a belief system, it's a culture. To me it seems like the values of Islam vary wildly (not just Islam actually, I'd say the same thing for Christianity). One group of people says that the Koran teaches that women should be treated like objects while the other side says that the Koran says they should be treated as equals and that's just one example.
Good You seem to be ignoring the possibility that murderers can be islamists. Suspected terrorists can be radical muslim clerics. Why do negative views about Islam (not muslims, Islam) sell newspapers so well? Because it's not a very popular religion. Don't worry, I'm sure in this largely atheist country the papers would make fun of Christianity if there were more than a handful of people who still take that book seriously. Firstly, there are laws against incitement to religious hatred. Secondly, that's a terrible terrible thing. By "protecting" sexuality and race and religious hatred, you don't really mean protecting, you mean censoring. You mean the removal of freedom of speech. You want to limit others' freedom, in order that expressions you do not like be prohibited. You are not alone in this country for wanting that, but that does not make it OK. Yes, probably. This will probably continue as long as islamic terrorism makes up the majority of the workload at MI5's terrorism branch. Probably. Sometimes you just have to choose. The rough set of ideals which you could call "British" are inevitably going to conflict with anyone who takes Islam seriously. Only by not taking the values most in the UK hold seriously, or not taking Islam seriously (or both) can one truly live in the UK and not hold simultaneously conflicting beliefs. I know that sounds quite serious, so before you get worked up just understand that I feel exactly the same about modern Britain and Christianity, it's just Christianity is hardly taken seriously by anyone these days, while Islam seems to be taken somewhat seriously by a fairly small number of people.
Basically agreed on almost all points; we see monsters that are simply trees swaying in the dark, the decrease in pirates is directly responsible for global warming... but who the hell is Kim Kardashian? And dwarfer they're (like everything elce) symbols, not fairytales. And a given symbol can have more than one meaning to any given individual, and most likely a lot of different symbols to different groups, and/or at different times. What would you say to me dumping a great mound of rock in the middle of your high-street?
