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Politics - What do you think?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by mattyh1995, 16 Jan 2013.

  1. mattyh1995

    mattyh1995 Minimodder

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    [purged]
     
    Last edited: 24 Oct 2019
  2. Cabe6403

    Cabe6403 Supreme Commander

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    Fascism isn't intrinsically linked with racism or xenophobia but quite commonly go hand in hand.
    I assume when you say you have fascist leaning beliefs you are referring to nationalistic views rather than a desire for a totalitarian state?
     
  3. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    I don't care much for politics, I try to live an enjoy my life.

    Matty - correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing from your user name that you're about 17. One thing I can tell you now is that your opinion of politics will morph as you get older, embark on a career, have kids etc.

    Oh, and for the record Fascism doesn't work in the world we live in. World War 2 didn't really help its cause to be fair :p
     
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  4. Blazza181

    Blazza181 SVM PLACENTA CASEI

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    Hmm, nationalism usually has a touch of racism to it, or Atty least the fascist variation does. Are you entirely sure that fascism is the right term? Sadly since I can accept patriotism is sort of forced into a "radical" corner nowadays.

    Fascism is a form of populist ultranationalism, involving an authoritarian state. Are you entirely sure that's what you desire?

    Myself, well, I've always been on the borderline between democratic socialism and social democracy.
     
  5. Blazza181

    Blazza181 SVM PLACENTA CASEI

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    Fascism lasted for a surprisingly long time in Franco's Spain. Provided the country doesn't try to invade others (but since a point of fascism is autarky and bringing the nation together via war, this is a rarity), fascist states can last a fair while.
     
  6. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    The older I get the more I hear the same old bollox being repeated by politicians of all parties.
     
  7. mattyh1995

    mattyh1995 Minimodder

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    Pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm having a slow day today...

    18 recently. And I know that, and it saddens me.


    There was something I read before which is one of the main things I believe, and that was the abolition of a class based society, essentially total equality. That was in an article about Italian Fascism I think, can't remember properly at the moment.


    Anyway, enough about my views. What do other people on Bit-Tech think of this?
     
  8. Blazza181

    Blazza181 SVM PLACENTA CASEI

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    Fascism tries to remove class conflict by bringing society together by war and autarky, trying to create a social solidarity. The aim is good, the means on the other hand is less than good. I think it can be done by far less destructive methods.

    I'd say nationalism is fine, if you're proud of your country. Where it becomes dangerous is if it is mixed with ethnocentrism, I.e. thinking your race is the best, and the others are worse.
     
  9. Cabe6403

    Cabe6403 Supreme Commander

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    I agree but nationalism tends to be more 'we are better than everyone else' as opposed to a dislike of a particular race so it's a different type of racism compared to targeted racism.

    Fascist states are totalitarian not authoritarian as a totalitarian state would control economic and social institutions while the state wouldn't in an authoritarian environment.
     
  10. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Fascist states are technically more economically totalitarian with much of its economy being state run. The nationalism is a component, but in a strange way, it actually makes sense given that it's a state central type of government.

    Nationalism is an us v you mentality, which basically leads to jingoism (I love isms) and a distrust of others. That said, Fascism only goes with racism because of its reliance upon nationalism. As far as I understand the origins of it, it's based on a nationalistic standpoint because that's how it was designed to be, a government for the people in the state and the people would work for the state for themselves.

    Actually Fascism isn't necessarily bad for the people who are under their government. Well at least for those who "belong in the fold." Think of it this way. Your government's policy is for your people. It's anti-foriegner but at many points, many nations had Fascist leanings. We just label it something else because we had WW2 to thank for that. The government system isn't bad. Just the examples.

    Plus it's a capitalist's dream to be in a fascist state, having state sponsorship and all.
     
  11. Harlequin

    Harlequin Modder

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    david Cameroon = norman major = maggy thatcher


    same old tory government , this time with the lib dems as lap dogs.....


    rob from the poor to pay they`re rich friends.


    £20 says after next election there will be NO lib dem mp`s , UKIP will have some and the BNP will have at least 1 MP....


    and it`ll be a hung parliament again
     
  12. Blazza181

    Blazza181 SVM PLACENTA CASEI

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    Fair point, although most trend to be initially authoritarian, before gradually becoming totalitarian, such as Hitler's initial support for big business, eg. Thyssen, before eventually nationalising the economy for solely war aims.
     
  13. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    It was mainly because they could afford it. The rapid growth that had occurred in a scant decade is unmistakeable.

    I sound like a Fascist propagandist now.
     
  14. Harlequin

    Harlequin Modder

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    the german people were sick of the constant sanction post WW1 , so when hitler and the naxi party wandered along and started actually achieving there promises , the `mob` saw them as hope.
     
  15. Blazza181

    Blazza181 SVM PLACENTA CASEI

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    Don't worry mate, I was called el fascisto by some of my friends for supporting Hitler in several of my essays. Fascism has its benefits, but overall, I believe its flaws far outweigh the benefits.

    Indeed, after WW1, Hitler gained support in Bavaria, and his views on the Treaty of Versailles were popular. The widespread poverty left by the War did infuriate much of the population. However, with the Dawes Plan came a whole new prosperity, and the Nazi Party declined in support greatly. It was more the effect of the Great Depression that led to Hitler's rise, since he was famous due to the Munich Putsch, and he was a far better alternative (to the ordinary middle class) than the communists.
     
  16. Porkins' Wingman

    Porkins' Wingman Can't touch this

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    Nationalism strikes me as counter-productive in our globalised world. Pitting the population's of one country over another serves no purpose other than being a method for manipulating impressionable people.

    Children are very easily steered into patriotism. Get them singing songs about their country, waving flags, and teaching them overly-simplified 'Us vs. Them/Good vs. Bad' stuff about past conflicts and you've got them where you want them. Introduce sports (e.g. Olympics) as a means to continue the sense of nationhood and then move on to some of the harsher realities of war when they're teenagers - perfect for recruiting a new generation of military, police etc.

    It's only when, through various possible ways, your eyes get opened to how ******** it all is that you begin to realise what a sucker you were when you were a kid. I've been there, as have most others. I loved international sport, considered joining the RAF and MI5 in my teens/early 20s before becoming a policeman. Within a year in the police my eyes had been opened, the illusion shattered and I reject most forms of nationalism and patriotism now. It's just a distraction tool for the State, a form of divide and conquer.

    On politics in general: I haven't voted in any election for 10 years or so. By voting you are participating in the process of legitimizing the authority of however takes power. I reject their authority. I don't do so actively because I've got better things to do than get caught up in it all, I just do my best to ignore it.

    I can't be arsed to think too hard about it, but just some of the more obvious reasons to reject it can be seen from episodes such as the Iraq War, the MPs expenses scandal, the blatant lining of their own and their mates' pockets by the Tories, the Tuition fees debacle with the Lib Dems. If you voted in the corresponding elections then you've legitimized all that crap and much more. Party politics is irrelevant - it's the system of having a bunch of disconnected people making decisions in my name that I reject.

    I haven't dug into it much but I understand I align roughly along the lines of rational anarchists.
     
  17. mattyh1995

    mattyh1995 Minimodder

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    I see it as the opposite. It's hard to say "Nationalist" as my view now that I actually put in serious thought. I'll just explain it and see if someone can put a word to it.

    I think that only through a single, European if not Global authority (That comes into power by some means), can we as a species progress any further. If we carry on down this path that we're on we'll just have the USA, the EU, Russia and maybe China all coming down to fight WW3. There's no space left on this planet for it to be sustainable, so there is only one option. Kick the god-damn space associations in their asses and get some s**t done! In less than 30 years after the invention of the long range rocket with computers less powerful than an iPhone, a man was put on the moon.

    You can say that what I've just said is fueled by Sci-Fi and video games, but one day that will become a reality, I'd like to see to sooner. And without Russia and the USA going to war over the Southern Hemisphere of Mars...

    Anyway, what would you call someone who has pride in Humanity as a species, and desires global unity under a single, fair power (Tall order, I know)? (obviously I have national pride too, but that is secondary)

    And back to more real politics and recent events, I agree about the Tories acting in favour of their rich donors, and the Lib Dems being spineless about their promises. It just goes to show that in it's current state there is something wrong with government. A democracy, while fair, isn't about what a party can do anymore. It's more about who has the best PR dept and who can dig up the most dirt on their rival. In short; Democracy, do it right or don't do it at all.
     
  18. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Being apolotical is equally as political tbh. It makes a statement nonetheless.
     
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  19. Cabe6403

    Cabe6403 Supreme Commander

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    I agree with this.

    The government and elections are legitimised regardless of your participation in it simply by means of apothetic acceptance. By doing nothing you are making a decision and a political statement.

    I think Nationalist views, to an extent, can foster a community and national pride. With national pride comes a desire to better ones own country. In some cases it was taken to the extreme (see Nazi Germany) but a moderate amount is good for a country.
     
  20. Tomhyde1986

    Tomhyde1986 What's a Dremel?

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    I decline your wager based on the fact thats exactly what i recon will happen too. The only thing I can see occuring is the Tories winning the next election based on the fact the Labor leader is a complete and utter buffoon with seemingly nothing to say. Honestly he's like a mouse and the charisma of a broomstick. There maybe a few lib dems who survive the nuclear fallout but they are in for the election from hell I suspect.

    I guess if I had to pin down my political point of view i'd be a centre right conservative (leaning more towards the centre). That being said i'm not 100% convinced about many of their policies and out right disagree with others but thats the nature of the game isn't it?

    Frankly all politicians are as bad as each other despite their best intentions. They all lose touch with reality eventually. Power corrupts all but the strongest and the current crop doesn't appear to be all that strong quite frankly.
     

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